Sorry.....Jazz in North Bay....???

[Brown Bear]

So, it's been a while. Since before Christmas even. Some of us have already got our 2008 taxes filed. Is anybody talking yet? Some of us are still waiting to hear of the great calamity that caused this wee mishap. Is the crew still working at Jazz? Is that pesky runway too short? Are they going to man up and admit to pooching it? Or, is this thread going to get pulled because the crew is going through a "hard" time? Only time will tell.

[Cat Driver]

1, 2, 3........

[Brown Bear]

192 views, and only Cat is brave enough to (kind of) reply? Jam Tarts!

[Cat Driver]

Had they been landing in Harare they would not have run off the end ( Maybe. )

[Cat Driver]

Come on don't tell me only Brown Bear is interested in what on the surface appears to be a major @#$! up by a 705 crew.

[flyinthebug]

Id love to comment..with a tiny bit of knowledge though first.. could you provide a thread or link where I can review what occured?

That might help get a few reponses BB.

Thanks.

[Cat Driver]

Flyinthebug, the threads were pulled because people jumped to the conclusion that it was a @#$! up before knowing all the details.

I do believe Brown Bear is referring to xxxx running off the end of a 10,000 foot runway at a fair clip.

I also think Brown Bear is wondering how the crew are faring and is concerned for their well being.

[flyinthebug]

ahh Thanks for the info Cat. I`ll google it and see what I can find.

Fly safe all. Cheers

[Cat Driver]

There were some pictures in the news papers that were copied here but the thread was pulled.

[Doc]

The story I got (not from the horse's mouth, but from the guy who cleans out his stable) was the wx was the shits, they landed "a little long" (like with 1800 feet to go) and went off the end. The runway is only ten thousand feet long, give or take. Wagons were being circled. Hypothesis were tossed around. Excuses were offered. But, bottom line, nobody was talking. It seems, nobody is talking as of yet. No fault has been admitted. No reasons have been given. Must be just "one of those things"?

[Widow]

Well, at least we actually have the hope of a public report. The TSB has this as a class 3 investigation and a TC MinOB has been appointed. Most of these little runway excursions don't get classed 3.

[Cat Driver]

That may be true widow, but will it be sanitized so as not to put a semi government outfit in a bad light?

Or have you had a born again experience and are now a believer in the honesty of the TSB and anyone else they have in these investigations?

[mattedfred]

semi government outfit

cat driver,

would you mind explaining what you mean by semi-government?

[Brown Bear]

semi government outfit

cat driver,

would you mind explaining what you mean by semi-government?

Matters not who owns Jazz. I'm more than a little curious as to why it keeps getting sanitized myself? I'm thinking, it's a segment of our national airline....could have something to do with it?

[Cat Driver]

Sure Mattedfred.

We, the older generation of great unwashed out here in Canada have been raised with the " Perception " that Air Canada is Canada's airline that perception is a holdover from the days when it was Trans Canada Airlines.

Last time I looked Jazz flies under the banner of Air Canada and to most Canadians that would by default mean that when flying Jazz you are flying on Canada's Airline.

However if I am wrong you have my apology.

Myself I am a retired Air France / KLM pilot and have been known to use my airline ID card to get upgrades on Canada's airline, Air Canada and in the good old days before 911 the jump seat. All my colleagues just automatically assume you Canadians still consider Air Canada your national airline.

I'm kind of out of the loop with what you Canadian's do having not really cared what you do for some time now.

Is West Jet now considered Canada's Airline?

[mattedfred]

i would expect joe public to incorrectly refer to either air canada or jazz as a government or semi-government airline but i was surprised when i read your post. air canada and jazz are neither government or semi-government. air canada also does not own a single unit of the jazz air income fund as far as i know.

[Cat Driver]

O.K. Mattedfred I am wrong, Canadians do not think of Air Canada as the national airline and when getting on Jazz they do not think they are flying on Air Canada.

So now that we have that all sorted out it stands to reason that the public would look at the picture of the Jazz Dash sitting out there off the runway in the snow and not connect it with an Air Canada machine.

[CD]

Big Red hasn't been government or semi-government since '89... Although the politicians and anyone from St. John's seems to think that it still is...

[Cat Driver]

CD, if Air Canada got to the place where it was going to go tits up, is it possible that the government would bail it out?

Or would Milton and his buddies step up to the plate and lend Air Canada money from their personal bank accounts?

[square]

Milton isn't just selling Air Canada he is dissolving the holding company (ACE) that owns 75% of it for straight cash.

But anyway, I don't think anyone has the straight dope on what happened on touchdown at North Bay. But come on, we all know they either landed on an ice rink or the last few friendly feet of pavement at that airport, and we also know those are both bad ideas, so there is probably what we have to learn from this incident.

Also, let us know when the accident report comes out.

[Just another canuck]

I would definitely say Air Canada is Canada's airline... and I do group Jazz and AC together to a degree. I say to a degree because they do fly the same flag so to speak... they are associated.

Silk Air represents Singapore Air... Jetstar to Qantas... Dragon to Cathay. But you can't let the operation and shortcomings of one sway you completely from the other.

[square]

Jazz and AC work together because of an agreement. Same with your other examples. Now, if you and I hatch some crazy scheme, and I agree to work with you, does that make us the same person?

Yes.. just as stupid.

[Brown Bear]

I don't really GAFF who owns Jazz. They couldn't get a Dash 8 stopped on a ten thousand foot runway? Got to be a "why" in here somewhere?

[moreccsplease]

Yep, you're right, Air Canada does not own Jazz and has nothing to do with them... only besides that they fly Air Canada machines, use Air Canada's fuel, have Air Canada 'yes-men' in management (that by the way, can switch between Air Canada and Jazz at will, and have multiple times in the past six or so months), use Air Canada ground handling, and to some extent Air Canada maintenance, get de-iced by Air Canada, depart from an Air Canada gate, with an Air Canada agent, boarding with an Air Canada flight number, get pushed back by Air Canada ground handling, share the same Air Canada STOC room, employees wear Air Canada uniforms provided by Air Canada's supplier, and fly on Air Canada passes.

They're even talking about moving the F/A's getting laid-off from AC to Jazz temporarily because Jazz is short.

Basically Air Canada controls Jazz, it is 99% of the business, and rubber-stamp anything Air Canada puts in front of them. Jazz is a piece of paper, literally.

But don't worry, they will convince every single employee out there that there is nothing to do with each other, only to pit groups against each other in contract negotiations.

[Strega]

I don't really GAFF who owns Jazz. They couldn't get a Dash 8 stopped on a ten thousand foot runway? Got to be a "why" in here somewhere?

I love this guy!!

But wait.. what if the 10k foot runway was "icy" LOL