Is a pilots personal log his own personal property?
Or is it considered a legal document?
Or can it be either one depending on its use?
Cat
Pilots personal log book question
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Pilots personal log book question
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
-
switchflicker
- Rank 5
- Posts: 341
- Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:25 am
Personal Property
Can't be a civil aviation document "cause there is no requirement for a signature from anyone except if you think f the 'certified by' signature done by some obscure CP or flying club clerk
Can't be a civil aviation document "cause there is no requirement for a signature from anyone except if you think f the 'certified by' signature done by some obscure CP or flying club clerk
"I'd rather have it and not need than to need it and not have it" Capt. Augustus McCrae.
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
-
loctite joe
- Rank 0
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:52 pm
switchflicker, true. But when it comes to transferring your license over to an FAA, or whatever flintstone civil aviation department of a different country, (eg. going to work oversea), the personnal logbook becomes crucial to doing that. Impossible without it. It is also personnal property in the sense that you do not have to hand it over to anyone who may ask for it. "Sir you are welcome to examine my logbook, but I am the one who will be leaving here with it!"
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
I recently had occasion to get a Bermuda license for a particular trip and they wanted a certified copy of my last two logbook pages. This doesn't answer your question but it does point out its importance to some jurisdictions.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
-
loctite joe
- Rank 0
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:52 pm
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
I have some background reason to ask these questions, however I am not at liberty to divulge much more for fear of identifying people who would be at great risk of retaliation by TC....
..I receive a lot of background information from people who ask me for advice regarding being bullied by the regulator, from all over Canada.
..you note that I said people as in plural?
If this were my problem and they had seized any of my property without a warrant as required by law I would be going straight to the news media and my MP.
What all you poor slobs out there fail to realize is ..we....you get that... we.... must use the proper channels to clean out the sewer that is now TC, the only possible avenue to use is the elected members of Parliament and the Minister in charge of Transport.
To try and take TC on by yourself is career suicide and these pricks know that...believe me you have reason to fear what they can do..
But you must not allow that fear to blind you to using the proper channels to change the system. By the way I will be posting an answer soon to one of the minions from the office of the Minister of Transport regarding the false information that was given to the Minister by some TC types here in my region.
I will hopefully show you how to play hard ball with these people.
Cat
..I receive a lot of background information from people who ask me for advice regarding being bullied by the regulator, from all over Canada.
..you note that I said people as in plural?
If this were my problem and they had seized any of my property without a warrant as required by law I would be going straight to the news media and my MP.
What all you poor slobs out there fail to realize is ..we....you get that... we.... must use the proper channels to clean out the sewer that is now TC, the only possible avenue to use is the elected members of Parliament and the Minister in charge of Transport.
To try and take TC on by yourself is career suicide and these pricks know that...believe me you have reason to fear what they can do..
But you must not allow that fear to blind you to using the proper channels to change the system. By the way I will be posting an answer soon to one of the minions from the office of the Minister of Transport regarding the false information that was given to the Minister by some TC types here in my region.
I will hopefully show you how to play hard ball with these people.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
-
Right Seat Captain
- Rank Moderator
- Posts: 1237
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:51 pm
- Location: Various/based CYOW
I bleieve this issue was on on here in the past, although it may have been a different person than the one Cat is dealing with.
First, I'm going to avoid taking sides, and tell you what I think some of the arguments are for either side.
A log book is not a required thing to have. One only needs to record flight that maintain their currency (ie the 6 month/2 year/5 year currency rules). To put it in the same words Cat once used some time ago, one could record this time on matchbooks from a strip club if they wanted to. They need only write down the required information about the flight, which is outlined in the CARs. Yoou write down YOUR time, that YOU did, either as a professional, or paid for yourself. It's to prove that you're current, so that you can use your licence, however, it still your property.
Okay, so now I've convinced myself that that is the only side of the arguement that seems right to me. Oh well.
Does anyone know of any regulation to keep a logbook for any amount of time? For example: I get my ATPL, they look at my logbook filled with certified times. They give me my licence, no problems. Can I throw out my logbook the next day? (from a legal standpoint) Not that I would or anything...
First, I'm going to avoid taking sides, and tell you what I think some of the arguments are for either side.
A log book is not a required thing to have. One only needs to record flight that maintain their currency (ie the 6 month/2 year/5 year currency rules). To put it in the same words Cat once used some time ago, one could record this time on matchbooks from a strip club if they wanted to. They need only write down the required information about the flight, which is outlined in the CARs. Yoou write down YOUR time, that YOU did, either as a professional, or paid for yourself. It's to prove that you're current, so that you can use your licence, however, it still your property.
Okay, so now I've convinced myself that that is the only side of the arguement that seems right to me. Oh well.
Does anyone know of any regulation to keep a logbook for any amount of time? For example: I get my ATPL, they look at my logbook filled with certified times. They give me my licence, no problems. Can I throw out my logbook the next day? (from a legal standpoint) Not that I would or anything...
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
" Can I throw out my logbook the next day? (from a legal standpoint) "
Yes.
But that would be stupid after going to all that trouble to get those entries..
Cat
Yes.
But that would be stupid after going to all that trouble to get those entries..
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
-
Right Seat Captain
- Rank Moderator
- Posts: 1237
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:51 pm
- Location: Various/based CYOW
Agreed. But lets say TC asks for my logbook, and I had reason to believe they would keep it, or use it against me. What's stopping me from putting it through the shredder right there. (and maybe photocopying pages prior to?)But that would be stupid after going to all that trouble to get those entries..
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
RSC wrote :
"Agreed. But lets say TC asks for my logbook, and I had reason to believe they would keep it, or use it against me. What's stopping me from putting it through the shredder right there. (and maybe photocopying pages prior to?) "
................................
Thats easy RSC, I would just tell them to go f.ck themselves, before they can legally take posession of any of your property or enter your property without your permission they must get a court order.
When they show up with the court order you give them a log of five take offs and landings taken form any journey log book that shows you as the PIC and meets the recency requrements...the log can be written on most anything as long as it containes the items as outlined in CAR's.
I would use the back of any letter that they sent to me to save paper.
Or you could say you do not have any personal log book period...then before you can carry passengers legally you of course will just have to go and copy proof of five landings etc, or you will have to go out and do five take offs and landings, which can all be done in one pass down runway 08 in Vancouver as there is plenty of room to get five touch and goes in before you get to the end of the runway, of course you will have to taxi all the way back, but what the hell sometimes we have to go out of our way to satisfy the CAR's.
Now of course you could have some other personal record of all your flying, however that is your diary and they will not have asked the court for you to surrender your diary.
RSC... never never let these Gestapo wannabes intimidate you because their power is only in their imagination. I'll bet you a hundred dollars you couldn't find one TC Inspector who has the balls to come over here to Nanaimo and try pulling that kind of crap on me...
Ain't it comforting to have the ol Cat to explain your rights to you?
Cat
"Agreed. But lets say TC asks for my logbook, and I had reason to believe they would keep it, or use it against me. What's stopping me from putting it through the shredder right there. (and maybe photocopying pages prior to?) "
................................
Thats easy RSC, I would just tell them to go f.ck themselves, before they can legally take posession of any of your property or enter your property without your permission they must get a court order.
When they show up with the court order you give them a log of five take offs and landings taken form any journey log book that shows you as the PIC and meets the recency requrements...the log can be written on most anything as long as it containes the items as outlined in CAR's.
I would use the back of any letter that they sent to me to save paper.
Or you could say you do not have any personal log book period...then before you can carry passengers legally you of course will just have to go and copy proof of five landings etc, or you will have to go out and do five take offs and landings, which can all be done in one pass down runway 08 in Vancouver as there is plenty of room to get five touch and goes in before you get to the end of the runway, of course you will have to taxi all the way back, but what the hell sometimes we have to go out of our way to satisfy the CAR's.
Now of course you could have some other personal record of all your flying, however that is your diary and they will not have asked the court for you to surrender your diary.
RSC... never never let these Gestapo wannabes intimidate you because their power is only in their imagination. I'll bet you a hundred dollars you couldn't find one TC Inspector who has the balls to come over here to Nanaimo and try pulling that kind of crap on me...
Ain't it comforting to have the ol Cat to explain your rights to you?
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
-
Driving Rain
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2696
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:10 pm
- Location: At a Tanker Base near you.
- Contact:
Right Seat Captain wrote:Agreed. But lets say TC asks for my logbook, and I had reason to believe they would keep it, or use it against me. What's stopping me from putting it through the shredder right there. (and maybe photocopying pages prior to?)But that would be stupid after going to all that trouble to get those entries..
Nothing
Is a log book a legal document? Yes, in so far as it can be audited and in a court of law prove if your a liar or not. Think of it as police notes.
Is a log book personel property? Yes, only a court order can force you to relinquish it. Courts can seize any property if they believe a crime as been commited. If you destroy it you'll leave yourself open to conjecture and speculation but thats the chance you take.
What about PFAD's? are they not log books? I fill one of them out daily as well as my personel log book. I have to submit my PFAD monthly too.
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Driving Rain :
What is a PFAD?
Here is another question, suppose you keep your personal log, or diary or notes or whatever at your place of employment and TC seized them without your permission in the course of a company audit without your knowledge, what would you think of that?
Cat
What is a PFAD?
Here is another question, suppose you keep your personal log, or diary or notes or whatever at your place of employment and TC seized them without your permission in the course of a company audit without your knowledge, what would you think of that?
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
-
Driving Rain
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2696
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:10 pm
- Location: At a Tanker Base near you.
- Contact:
We have to fill out and submit monthly a PILOT FLIGHT AND DUTY TIME report PFAD. It looks ...just like a log book only differentCat Driver wrote:Driving Rain :
What is a PFAD?
Here is another question, suppose you keep your personal log, or diary or notes or whatever at your place of employment and TC seized them without your permission in the course of a company audit without your knowledge, what would you think of that?
Cat
Transport can take them anytime they want because our ops manual says we must fill them out as part of the record keeping. They're company documents so I have no say in the matter.
I keep a dairy and not a log book. It is much better than a log book IMHO because I can and do record observations immediately after they occur ..just like police notes.. came in handy a couple of times too.
They're my personel property and I'd only give them up under court order.
squawk 1276
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Locktite...
Personal Log books are without doubt interesting and useful things to have however you are slightly overstating the need for them by saying it is impossible to get work overseas without producing a personal log.
Part of your post said...
" (eg. going to work oversea), the personnal logbook becomes crucial to doing that. Impossible without it. "
I hold authority to fly, work, and train pilots in several parts of the world such as Australia, and Europe and was never asked to produce a personal log by the regulatory bodies....so it is possible because I have done it.
Not that it is all that important, but there are exceptions to most things we think are cast in concrete..
Cat
Personal Log books are without doubt interesting and useful things to have however you are slightly overstating the need for them by saying it is impossible to get work overseas without producing a personal log.
Part of your post said...
" (eg. going to work oversea), the personnal logbook becomes crucial to doing that. Impossible without it. "
I hold authority to fly, work, and train pilots in several parts of the world such as Australia, and Europe and was never asked to produce a personal log by the regulatory bodies....so it is possible because I have done it.
Not that it is all that important, but there are exceptions to most things we think are cast in concrete..
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Cat,
2 springs ago I was asked, during a base visit for my logbook. I showed it to the inspectors. When they were packing up to leave for the day they informed us they were taking all the journy logs and personal logs.
I told them I was unwilling to give them my logbook and I had only worked for the company for 2 weeks so the info on anything other than the last page was not revellant. I offered to photo copy the last page for them.
The prick dug into his shirt pocket and like a cop, handed me a laminated card outlining his powers. It stated I had to produce a log upon request. I re-read it and said "it only says I have to show you my log you don't get to keep it" He then flipped to another page and showed me the reg saying I had to surrender it.
I was pissed he seemed to be testing me by not showing the correct reg first. I told them if he looses it I would be unable to prove my time for an ATPL and he would not be liable.
His personal guarentee was not enough. I made him sign and date me a reciept showing my times. I gave him my book, it was returned the next day.
I am not sure where his laminated card came from or how legal it is. In the future he can have my duty time sheet, can look at my personal log but not keep it no matter what his card says.
I may let him photocopy anything immediatly revelant ie t/o ldg currency but nothing more
Can they sieze a Journey log?
2 springs ago I was asked, during a base visit for my logbook. I showed it to the inspectors. When they were packing up to leave for the day they informed us they were taking all the journy logs and personal logs.
I told them I was unwilling to give them my logbook and I had only worked for the company for 2 weeks so the info on anything other than the last page was not revellant. I offered to photo copy the last page for them.
The prick dug into his shirt pocket and like a cop, handed me a laminated card outlining his powers. It stated I had to produce a log upon request. I re-read it and said "it only says I have to show you my log you don't get to keep it" He then flipped to another page and showed me the reg saying I had to surrender it.
I was pissed he seemed to be testing me by not showing the correct reg first. I told them if he looses it I would be unable to prove my time for an ATPL and he would not be liable.
His personal guarentee was not enough. I made him sign and date me a reciept showing my times. I gave him my book, it was returned the next day.
I am not sure where his laminated card came from or how legal it is. In the future he can have my duty time sheet, can look at my personal log but not keep it no matter what his card says.
I may let him photocopy anything immediatly revelant ie t/o ldg currency but nothing more
Can they sieze a Journey log?
(1) For reference Old Dog, it was me that was involved in a discussion about something similiar on another site here. It was stated that all entries into a personal logbook had to be "Certified" and I asked for proof of same.....still don't have it.
(2) Much of this is a "moot" problem anyway. My personal logbook is filled with a/c that existed, but don't now in any form; companies that owned them don't exist now and haven't for 20+ years. In short, NOTHING exists anywhere on many of the a/c unless somebody's keeping photocopies for personal interest.
(3) Driving Rain is correct by the way in all he states. I've been asked for mine with the plastic covered card as authority, which they have as well as members of the RCMP. That personal logbook can be used as evidence against me for anything, whether I like it or not, therefore when asked for it I said "No". They asked why and I told them the above reasons and that as soon as I had advice from my legal counsel, they would know. They got the book shortly after.....with the lawyer present.
(4) You can go to Staples and get a hard covered scribbler and call it your logbook if you so wish. I was told many times, years ago, by DoT/MoT Inspectors that it was not legal and they've yet to produce proof. It's now 40 years that I've been waiting for proof, although I now keep a so-called "acceptable" logbook. That's only because of protestations of some CP's that ordered me to change my ways........"fair ball".....you pay me, you give the orders.
(5) Another part of all this is also "moot", but applies to people like Cat, Old Dog, CLguy, yours truly, etc.......we've been around so forkin' long that to "call us out" on our logbook entries would make the fools look like just that.......fools......plus the fact that we ALL have to fill in our sheets/books. etc these days on our daily hours flown. There's just been too many witnesses to our "goings-on" over the eons and some of the "goings-on" (in the air and on the ground) may well have been witnessed by the "esteemed" MoT Inspector himself anyway.
(6) In all of my years in this business, the most I've ever been asked for by an employer is a photocopy of the last page of my logbook and a photocopy of the last page of my US Army Flight logbook....nothing more. I have no problem with that because a photocopy or fax copy cannot be submitted as evidence in any courtroom no matter what it pertains to......especially if the document has a signature on it.....because it is just that......a COPY of something.
I'll "bow" to Cat on anything further because he is MUCH more knowledgable than I and has had MANY more dealings with our "exteemed and knowledgable" MoT folks. Cat cannot be intimidated and has extracted his "pound of flesh" from the "powers-that-be" for trying to do so. You would do well to pay attention to what he has to pass on....even if it is "slighly biased in his favour". Sorry Cat....couldn't resist that last dig. 
Let'er rip Cat......I'll "cover your six". 
(2) Much of this is a "moot" problem anyway. My personal logbook is filled with a/c that existed, but don't now in any form; companies that owned them don't exist now and haven't for 20+ years. In short, NOTHING exists anywhere on many of the a/c unless somebody's keeping photocopies for personal interest.
(3) Driving Rain is correct by the way in all he states. I've been asked for mine with the plastic covered card as authority, which they have as well as members of the RCMP. That personal logbook can be used as evidence against me for anything, whether I like it or not, therefore when asked for it I said "No". They asked why and I told them the above reasons and that as soon as I had advice from my legal counsel, they would know. They got the book shortly after.....with the lawyer present.
(4) You can go to Staples and get a hard covered scribbler and call it your logbook if you so wish. I was told many times, years ago, by DoT/MoT Inspectors that it was not legal and they've yet to produce proof. It's now 40 years that I've been waiting for proof, although I now keep a so-called "acceptable" logbook. That's only because of protestations of some CP's that ordered me to change my ways........"fair ball".....you pay me, you give the orders.
(5) Another part of all this is also "moot", but applies to people like Cat, Old Dog, CLguy, yours truly, etc.......we've been around so forkin' long that to "call us out" on our logbook entries would make the fools look like just that.......fools......plus the fact that we ALL have to fill in our sheets/books. etc these days on our daily hours flown. There's just been too many witnesses to our "goings-on" over the eons and some of the "goings-on" (in the air and on the ground) may well have been witnessed by the "esteemed" MoT Inspector himself anyway.
(6) In all of my years in this business, the most I've ever been asked for by an employer is a photocopy of the last page of my logbook and a photocopy of the last page of my US Army Flight logbook....nothing more. I have no problem with that because a photocopy or fax copy cannot be submitted as evidence in any courtroom no matter what it pertains to......especially if the document has a signature on it.....because it is just that......a COPY of something.
I'll "bow" to Cat on anything further because he is MUCH more knowledgable than I and has had MANY more dealings with our "exteemed and knowledgable" MoT folks. Cat cannot be intimidated and has extracted his "pound of flesh" from the "powers-that-be" for trying to do so. You would do well to pay attention to what he has to pass on....even if it is "slighly biased in his favour".
Sorry Cat....couldn't resist that last dig. Let'er rip Cat......I'll "cover your six". -
snaproll20
- Rank 7
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:50 pm
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Edo wrote...:
"2 springs ago I was asked, during a base visit for my logbook. I showed it to the inspectors. When they were packing up to leave for the day they informed us they were taking all the journy logs and personal logs. "
Edo, never, give them anything unless they produce a court order for it.
When asked for documents the law is very specific which documents you must "" PRODUCE "" please look up that word in a dictionary. If I were ever accosted by one of those thugs I would show them any documents required, but only if I were actually operating an airplane at the time and it had been witnessed by someone.
I would physically maintain possession of all documents and " NEVER " allow any TC thug to get said documents in their hands, because once they have them in their own hands you have now gone from " producing " to surrendering said documents.
If you are going about your legal business and have broken no laws you have the right to state this fact and in front of witnesses if possible you must inform the thug ( TC Inspector ) that you will file an harassement complaint against him /her. Contact me immediately and I will guide give you the details on how to go about filing such a charge, believe me these thugs do not want that on their employment record. If the thug continues to harass you hold on to all your property and walk away, they can not detain you unless they call the police ..
As to filing an harassement charge, it can be done and is very effictive, I can show you the proof of just how effective it is and point you to an ex TC Inspector that I filed a charge against... just for the record after the harassement charge was filed the Regional Director General, TC contacted me and eventually showed up at my home because I would not meet him in any government office. It is really strange that three days after the RDG left my home the TC Inspector resigned from TC, and guess what? TC claimed they could not interview him concerning my case as he no longer was an employee of TC.....convienient huh???
Once an harassement complaint is filed through the proper channels in Ottawa you must go to your MP and request the MP's assistance in protecting your civil rights that are guaranteed under law. There is still the expetation in Canada that we have the right to seek protection from any Government official who is seen to be abusing the power of their office, which is quite common with some TC types.
If you have been stopped by TC for a violation of the regulations and you are guilty of said violation /s you would not of course be able to file an harassement charge.
However for TC to seize your personal property even if you had been in violation of the regs they still need a court order.
Now of course we will get some of our more subserviant brothers jumping all over me for being so defensive, but I have learned from bitter experience that the more you cooperate with these thugs the deeper you dig your own grave and you are only helping them convict you even if you are innocent.
I know, I can prove they will break any law they choose if they want to prove how much power they have.
The fact that you never were in violation of any law means nothing to them once they decide to act.
Remember, you can protect yourself against a street crimminal but you will have a much more difficult time protecting yourself from one of TC's thugs because no matter what they do they will be protected by their own system...that is how it works.
I can produce a document that I showed to the RDG in my home in front of witnesses that he threw on my coffee table and said, .. Quote : " that is a crimminal matter and should be handled by the RCMP....it has nothing to do with me or my department.. "
My reply was, you mean one of your Inspectors who is part of the reason you are in my home is in your opinion a crimminal and it does not reflect on my case.. I told the RDG that if he felt it had no bearing on my case he could leave my home right now and I would turn the document over to the news media and let the public decide...
...He stayed for another seven hours trying to worm his way out of the issues...some day I hope to get the whole story out in public....oh by the way I never did give the document to the news media, but guess what? , I hope to when the right time comes.
Cat
"2 springs ago I was asked, during a base visit for my logbook. I showed it to the inspectors. When they were packing up to leave for the day they informed us they were taking all the journy logs and personal logs. "
Edo, never, give them anything unless they produce a court order for it.
When asked for documents the law is very specific which documents you must "" PRODUCE "" please look up that word in a dictionary. If I were ever accosted by one of those thugs I would show them any documents required, but only if I were actually operating an airplane at the time and it had been witnessed by someone.
I would physically maintain possession of all documents and " NEVER " allow any TC thug to get said documents in their hands, because once they have them in their own hands you have now gone from " producing " to surrendering said documents.
If you are going about your legal business and have broken no laws you have the right to state this fact and in front of witnesses if possible you must inform the thug ( TC Inspector ) that you will file an harassement complaint against him /her. Contact me immediately and I will guide give you the details on how to go about filing such a charge, believe me these thugs do not want that on their employment record. If the thug continues to harass you hold on to all your property and walk away, they can not detain you unless they call the police ..
As to filing an harassement charge, it can be done and is very effictive, I can show you the proof of just how effective it is and point you to an ex TC Inspector that I filed a charge against... just for the record after the harassement charge was filed the Regional Director General, TC contacted me and eventually showed up at my home because I would not meet him in any government office. It is really strange that three days after the RDG left my home the TC Inspector resigned from TC, and guess what? TC claimed they could not interview him concerning my case as he no longer was an employee of TC.....convienient huh???
Once an harassement complaint is filed through the proper channels in Ottawa you must go to your MP and request the MP's assistance in protecting your civil rights that are guaranteed under law. There is still the expetation in Canada that we have the right to seek protection from any Government official who is seen to be abusing the power of their office, which is quite common with some TC types.
If you have been stopped by TC for a violation of the regulations and you are guilty of said violation /s you would not of course be able to file an harassement charge.
However for TC to seize your personal property even if you had been in violation of the regs they still need a court order.
Now of course we will get some of our more subserviant brothers jumping all over me for being so defensive, but I have learned from bitter experience that the more you cooperate with these thugs the deeper you dig your own grave and you are only helping them convict you even if you are innocent.
I know, I can prove they will break any law they choose if they want to prove how much power they have.
The fact that you never were in violation of any law means nothing to them once they decide to act.
Remember, you can protect yourself against a street crimminal but you will have a much more difficult time protecting yourself from one of TC's thugs because no matter what they do they will be protected by their own system...that is how it works.
I can produce a document that I showed to the RDG in my home in front of witnesses that he threw on my coffee table and said, .. Quote : " that is a crimminal matter and should be handled by the RCMP....it has nothing to do with me or my department.. "
My reply was, you mean one of your Inspectors who is part of the reason you are in my home is in your opinion a crimminal and it does not reflect on my case.. I told the RDG that if he felt it had no bearing on my case he could leave my home right now and I would turn the document over to the news media and let the public decide...
...He stayed for another seven hours trying to worm his way out of the issues...some day I hope to get the whole story out in public....oh by the way I never did give the document to the news media, but guess what? , I hope to when the right time comes.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
-
loctite joe
- Rank 0
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:52 pm
Cat,
I only have experience with FAA, and one other in Africa. If it worked for you then I am suprised. You must have had some mean though of showing your experience other then your word.....
To the guy who did surrender his logbook, holy shit! what were you thinking? Anyone who asks me to surrender that or my passport, which also has been asked of me, can go blow on a goat. No if's or but's.
I only have experience with FAA, and one other in Africa. If it worked for you then I am suprised. You must have had some mean though of showing your experience other then your word.....
To the guy who did surrender his logbook, holy shit! what were you thinking? Anyone who asks me to surrender that or my passport, which also has been asked of me, can go blow on a goat. No if's or but's.
