I'm pissed that I couldn't afford a degree as well as....

[Westward_Bound]

I'm just pissed that because I could only afford flight training, or a degree, and NOT BOTH, that I might lose a job to someone else who had more money then me.

It's not like people have to get 2 degrees for a job(I'm sure there are, but you get my drift), so why should pilots get a degree ON TOP of flight training?

Do HR and interview staff understand this? In reality, how much of a disadvantage am I at?

[AuxBatOn]

I'm just pissed that because I could only afford flight training, or a degree, and NOT BOTH, that I might lose a job to someone else who had more money then me.

It's not like people have to get 2 degrees for a job(I'm sure there are, but you get my drift), so why should pilots get a degree ON TOP of flight training?

Do HR and interview staff understand this? In reality, how much of a disadvantage am I at?

You don't need a second degree....

Let's say you are a Mechanical Engineer and you apply for a company that require a mechanical engineer. The only qualification required is a Mech Eng degree. Your competition for the job has a Bachelor and a Master degree in Mechanical Engineering, while you only have the Bachelor. Everything else similar, who do you think the employer is going to take?

The bottom line is, even if a degree is definately not required to fly an airplane, any education is never a waste, and shows to some extent you habilty to learn something new.

[Blue Side Down]

On the one hand, like ABO mentioned, the degree proves that you are self-motivated, determined and goal oriented. That is if you are talking to someone who also has a degree or has spent some time considering its implications. What the degree is in is really second in importance.

On the other, a degree is a big investment and takes a hell of a lot of time in the near term. You'll spend your winters dreaming of the flying you could be doing, and your summers dreading having to return south before the float season ends.

FWIW, I did my licenses and then went to school, and was lucky enough to make enough flying inthe summers to carry me through three of four years. The first year was expensive, without a doubt. In the end, I don't regret any of the decisions I've made, though I wonder every now and then if having an Eng degree is a disadvantage when applying for float jobs... ya just never know.

[Dr. Mcillicuddy]

As the old saying goes, You can educate a fool but there still a fool . dm

[Blue Side Down]

As the old saying goes, You can educate a fool but there still a fool . dm

'Your' on the money with that one!

[SkyWolfe]

I got myself a diploma - I don't have more money - I have credit - and now a pile of debt. Yay.

[canpilot]

Okay.. had my fun there...


I did the degree thing.. it took for friggin ever to get my flt training done.. try working, mid, terms, flight training ...ALL AT THE SAME TIME! NOT NOT NOT FUN!

I had to fly in the winter while I was in school.. cause i had to work my bag off at the airport from 0400-2300 ..

If you have done your training.. now's the time to go to school.. if you are in B.C. Kwantlen has a two year or something associates degree that transfers to SFU/ UBC... its not a BA or MA. how bout that? What about becoming an AME? is that not post secondary? ask others about the pilot ame thing.. i have no clue..

Like i said.. get ur stuff done now ..you wanna be ready ..and be the first one on that hiring wave.. i wasn't cause i was in school.. which prolonged my flight training..eventually I just quit p sec. and went flying.. glad I did.. unemployed and 800TT is better than 500 and unemployed.

cheers mate

best of luck

[Radiohead]

I'm just pissed that because I could only afford flight training, or a degree, and NOT BOTH, that I might lose a job to someone else who had more money then me.

Not necessarily more money than you.... Just more debt than you.

Use the time you would have taken to get a degree to build hours and you'll be ahead of those people anyway.

[Westward_Bound]

I'm just pissed that because I could only afford flight training, or a degree, and NOT BOTH, that I might lose a job to someone else who had more money then me.

Not necessarily more money than you.... Just more debt than you.

Use the time you would have taken to get a degree to build hours and you'll be ahead of those people anyway.

Ok once I thought about it that way I didn't feel so bad. I was brought up thinking that you shouldn't buy something that you can't pay for up front, so the debt part never crossed my mind. I guess tho once I get a flying job, I can do some courses online, one at a time eh? And maybe by the time I'm 30 have a degree

Totally unethical question, but, how many of you guys that have post secondary have been asked to prove it for work? I'm sure you know what I'm getting at, but heck, if it's only going as far as from paper to eyes, then what's the harm?

[wxguy]

Totally unethical question, but, how many of you guys that have post secondary have been asked to prove it for work? I'm sure you know what I'm getting at, but heck, if it's only going as far as from paper to eyes, then what's the harm?

I guess as long as you don't write that you are trustworthy on your resume.

[Blue Side Down]

Unless you're trying to get on with the majors, claiming a degree isn't going to make a lick of difference if you don't have the experience and/or flight time your operator of choice is after. In the little leagues, a degree's gravy, plain and simple.



Added: don't confuse a percieved lack of qualificaitons with a depressed economy- it's slow for everybody, including the educationalizeded.

[SkyWolfe]

Wow, lieing is such a noble trait.

[fortis risk]

Westward,
Actually many jobs require multiple degrees. Nurse, teacher, doctor, lawyer just to name a few of the many. The educational requirement for aviation is incredibly low. The financial cost may be high, but compared to most careers it requires little in terms of education, intelligence or ambition. It sure is fun though.

[matt777]

Westward,
Actually many jobs require multiple degrees. Nurse, teacher, doctor just to name a few of the many. The educational requirement for aviation is incredibly low. The financial cost may be high, but compared to most careers it requires little in terms of education, intelligence or ambition. It sure is fun though.

Actually none of those require more than one degree. A Nurse gets a BSc in Nursing with no other degree, a teacher can get a straight B.Ed with no other degree and a doctor can go into Med school after completing only 2 years of an undergrad so it would still be one degree.

[ajet32]

A degree was required at Canadian Airlines for most of the 1990's unless you entered through the Canadian Regional network. Does it make you a better pilot no. Does the ability to study and apply oneself help with an initial large jet type rating and company ground school,YES. Is it necessary NOT at all.
Almost all US majors require a Bachelors Degree as part of the requirements. Again not necessary except as a check of a box on the application and a way to reduce the resume pile . A friend who had all the boxes but that one,a Canadian with access to Northwest Airlines was turned down because he had no degree.
I have a Degree in Agriculture (very relevant;wouldn't you say [Haha]) and an ATPL with 3 jet and 2 turboprop rating. Did the degree help me get the job yes did it make me better or allow me to advance more NO. It wasn't wasted time I had an absolute blast at University but then I'm not a career driven type. I much prefer to party and travel than work hard.
My advice don't sweat it , if you want a degree get one through Athabasca like one of our moderators did and then you have it if you need one.
As for the cost its just money and debt we all have that so what's a little more.

[Minimums]

And welcome to aviation, should have done your homework in high school, and you might not be in this predicament, heh. Seriously, better off with a trade of some sort, might not might 6 figures a year, but you won't with a degree either until your at mid-life crisis time, 2 divorces, 4 kids and no house to call your own with, guess what, more debt! Ain't life grand.

[Westward_Bound]

And welcome to aviation, should have done your homework in high school, and you might not be in this predicament, heh. Seriously, better off with a trade of some sort, might not might 6 figures a year, but you won't with a degree either until your at mid-life crisis time, 2 divorces, 4 kids and no house to call your own with, guess what, more debt! Ain't life grand.

lol, so in other words dont sweat it?

[Elman]

Just a question.....what are the requirements for a student loan (not a grant)? There are many people who can not afford a degree but they get one through student loans. Often these students are in debt for a long time but it's a choice I suppose.

[2R]

Maybe that photocopy shop in Calgary that does ATPL copies can get you a degree as well

[just curious]

Ouch!

Westward, unless you are applying for a 705 CP position, the Military, TC, or Air Canada, the degree won't help you. Much.

Right off the bat though, resume fraud can and will see your ass fired from most reputable organizations.

Later in life when you have a job flying, if you see one that might appeal to you later in life, see what they needed for qualifications. Managing a 705 training or safety shop, a type-simulator training program, a degree might be very handy.

Working on the dock for Fred's Flying, Welding and Janitorial Ltd- likely not.

[iflyforpie]

Just was wondering what having an AME license would actually give you credit for in terms of 'higher education' for 705 flying jobs. I went to school for two years and got a 'diploma' (not a 'degree' I know, but neither is an 'aviation diploma') and completed the required experience for an AME license for both light and heavy aircraft.

If you were 705 and had two resumes with same ratings and times, who would you pick? The guy with the the AME license or a guy with an aviation diploma or Bsc/BA?

[ajet32]

If it was me and I have had that job then I would pick the degree guy. Followed by the Diploma followed by the AME. Why I want someone who is going to manage my 705 airplane not fix or maintain it. I also want someone I can perhaps put in the training department at some time in the future. Just my opinion.

[navajo]

Westward_Bound, remember, you're in Canada hey, everything is possible! Governments and banks have a wonderful tool named student loan. If you are motivated, money is not a reason to don't get a degree if you want one.