Whistle Blowers

[twisted wrench]

Deleted

[phillyfan]

Depends, but probably not.

[Widow]

The thing about whistleblowers is that they value their own morals above their jobs. They care more for the public good than for their own. People like that are few and far between ... but they save lives, and even after their own lives have been destroyed as a result, they are glad of their actions.

I believe that a true Professional Pilot's Association - mandatory for all commercial pilots - would help protect real whistleblowers. In the face of SMS, and the government's apparent desire to abdicate responsibility, something NEEDS to be done. Things were bad before, they are only going to get worse.

I know several people that would gladly snap up a whistleblower. Because they know that these are the people that WILL do the job right the first time.

[Clearwater]

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[foxmoth]

not if they are incomp[tent drunks.

[Clearwater]

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[6ftsnipe]

not if they are incomp[tent drunks.

Are you drunk right now? great spelling.

[Widow]

Other professional occupations, who similarly hold people's lives in their hands, have mandatory professional associations that benefit both themselves and members of the public.

Are pilots (and AMEs, etc.) not professionals who hold people's lives in their hands?

[Clearwater]

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[Widow]

In my perfect world?

The membership rule would be enforced by TCCA, under something akin to a "Federal Professional Pilots Act".

You would be restricted from working without membership.

Please read the presentation of Paul Carson, TCCA, at the Standing Committee Hearings on Bill C-7 in May '07:

http://questforjustice.spaces.live.com/ ... !164.entry

[anonymity]

I was a C.P for awhile at a couple outfits and I would have hired the whistle blowers, anyone who wouldn't has something to hide themselves and you wouldn't want to work there anyway.
I thought Transport had an anonomous whistle blowing hotline anyhow, so whos going to know who reported them in the first place.

[Widow]

The CAIRs is the "confidential reporting system" at TCCA. From the website:

The CAIRS is used to report a variety of issues, including safety-related issues. However, the CAIRS is not designed to report IMMEDIATE safety hazards. For example, a person boarding an airplane and witnesses a safety concern should not report this concern through the CAIRS. Immediate safety concerns can be reported to the Civil Aviation Standby Duty Officer in the relevant region, or 24 hours a day / 7 days a week to the national aviation emergency number (1-877-992-6853) in Ottawa. Persons employed in the aviation industry may also contact the Aviation Occupational Safety and Health (OSH) inspector in region to report an immediate OSH issue.

The CAIRS is not designed to handle issues that should be reported through an aviation company's safety management system (SMS).

Good luck convincing anyone at the "hotline" that something is an "immediate safety concern". Likewise the AOS&H folk only seem to care about things in the TCCA OS&H rules, and not the Canada Labour Code.

As with Securitas (see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=33560), confidential reporting is not necessarily very confidential. Things get released through Access to Information. Sometimes just enough to give clues to identities, sometimes without concealing private information (presumably in error).

There are several threads that refer to people's experiences using either the CAIRS or Securitas if you do a board search.

[fortis risk]

The silence from the target audience is an affirmation of sorts. Not a single current CP, DOM replied to the request.

[HORUNNER]

thats bc most have tainted hangers, with too many skeletons

[marktheone]

We don't need more goddamn govt interference.SMS or otherwise. If pilots and AME's would just use their heads and simply don't fly it if it not safe. Whatever happened to personal accountability? And pride in workmanship? As you know Widow, I'm with you on a fair lot of your opinions, but I must disagree that a "proffesional association" (read union) would do any good at all. Sadly, more govt NEVER helps anything. Every time the govt tries to help, inevitably with the line "we're here to help", things get worse. In all industries, not just aviation.

[Widow]

Goodness me marktheone, I never meant for the government to be the administrators of the Association! Only that it is a government requirement to be associated. I don't remember you being in support of unions or associations in past threads though, either. So it doesn't surprise me you would not be supportive of this. Just like a medical association, or an engineering association, you must be associated to work in the industry and the association is operated and managed by your peers. This site is a clear indication that pilots would be harder on each other than anyone else. But they would also be protective of a safe working environment, and the general safety of the public.

Did anyone read Carson's presentation I linked above?

[marktheone]

True, I am not a fan of unions. They had their place and the time has come and gone. I also tend to think that an association would be of little benefit either. It all comes back to people just using their heads. I think the industry is covers to broad a spectrum for an association. Medicine and other professions that have associations are easier to put in a box and that box is largely based on conduct.

[Westward_Bound]

I like the idea of an association, but being new my opinion means little. I just want to say that yes, an individual should "use his head", but the association would help the overall situation since those that "don't use their heads" are always present.

I like the association idea because in theory it should keep out the underminers, no?

[sepia]

True, I am not a fan of unions. They had their place and the time has come and gone. I also tend to think that an association would be of little benefit either. It all comes back to people just using their heads. I think the industry is covers to broad a spectrum for an association. Medicine and other professions that have associations are easier to put in a box and that box is largely based on conduct.

How many people at companies like Regency Express used their heads? You knew a bunch of the people there. A lot of people that should have been too smart to make the decisions that they made. Sometimes people feel powerless to make the right decisions based on a very real threat of their jobs.

You are by far oversimplifying the issue by saying "use your head". Half the 703 operators in the country wouldn't turn a prop tomorrow if every pilot woke up and started using their heads.

[Westward_Bound]

True, I am not a fan of unions. They had their place and the time has come and gone. I also tend to think that an association would be of little benefit either. It all comes back to people just using their heads. I think the industry is covers to broad a spectrum for an association. Medicine and other professions that have associations are easier to put in a box and that box is largely based on conduct.

How many people at companies like Regency Express used their heads? You knew a bunch of the people there. A lot of people that should have been too smart to make the decisions that they made. Sometimes people feel powerless to make the right decisions based on a very real threat of their jobs.

You are by far oversimplifying the issue by saying "use your head". Half the 703 operators in the country wouldn't turn a prop tomorrow if every pilot woke up and started using their heads.

Good post. Why do people have problems understanding that?

What I don't get is how people think an association of peers to protect peers is not beneficial??

[Joren]

Just came across this thread and thought I'd chime in on the need for a better system for whistle-blowing (for lack of a better term).

Years ago at a carrier that is (some might say) thankfully no longer with us, I called in to what was then the Confidential Aviation Safety Reporting System to report a number of things. I can't even remember them all now, but I remember asking the person on the end of the phone why nothing was being done. He claimed that the items being reported were filed away according to their rated importance, and if a pattern was seen, then they would act on it. Sounded way too bureaucratic for something as important as safety to me (but hey, I was a lot younger and way more naive)

I recall as clear as day reporting another incident that had previously been reported and asking "what will it take before someone does something about this? Lose one of our aircraft?" His response? "Yeah, probably".

[buck82]

Westward Bound 'What I don't get is how people think an association of peers to protect peers is not beneficial??'

Because in some cases they are represented by a third party (read union) that has no knowledge nor interest fighting for improving the work conditions we live and work under. As long as they get their cut, they are happy.

[shannon]

There is a vast difference between a traditional union and a professional association meant to help regulate its members.

A professional association would help keep pilots honest and not so much protect them directly but hopefully protect them by raising the industry standards.

[Cat Driver]

A professional association would help keep pilots honest and not so much protect them directly but hopefully protect them by raising the industry standards.

Exactly and it is long overdue.

If you think things were bad a few years ago you haven't seen anything yet, with the global crash of economies aviation will really suffer.

I remember the advice one of TCCA's top managers gave me just before the CAR's became law.

He said . this industry is really going to go to hell and I'm quitting TC and heading overseas, it only took me a few months to make the same decision.

So the best advice I can give all you younger ones just starting out and you older ones still clawing your way up the ladder is have lots of KY handy because not only do you have CAR's to deal with you have SMS on the way...the crooked employers can't wait to have a free reign on how they will operate.