Rumor

[goingmach_1]

I have this from quite a few people lately.

All narrow bodies hived off to Jazz and wide bodies will be Air Canada.

Comments?

[mattedfred]

like your dentist, barber, mailman and neighbour?

gimme a break

[Maxpwr]

like your dentist, barber, mailman and neighbour?

gimme a break

Ditto, sounds like a pot stirring.

Rumours are a waste of everybody's time and energy.

[Glen Quagmire]

It will never happen, ever. Now let us move on from these distractions to the bigger problems that lie ahead.

[tonysoprano]

Rumor.
I have heard this from quite a few people lately. Even Jaques Kafavian.
Apparently Georgian will do all the domestic flying and get the Emb and Airbus and Jazz gets all the overseas flying. WJ is getting A380s and will start nonstop service YKL-NRT and BJG.
All mainline AC pilots will be given "an attractive severance package" and will be retrained as professional aircraft groomers if they so desire, with excellent benefits. Stay tuned. All within a matter of weeks. I heard this.

[Old fella]

Jeezz...... Tony, with that windfall $$$$$ you will be able to buy a 1/2 acre DRC Bourgogne and start a new life free of aviation and this site!!!

Have at her!!!

[tonysoprano]

hey buddy. ya I can't wait and the mrs. agrees. time for a change. she wants to travel more and drink more Brunellos.

[E-Flyer]

Tony you forgot to mention that Air Transat will donate their A310's to Jazz.

[SMP]

Rumor.
I have heard this from quite a few people lately. Even Jaques Kafavian.
Apparently Georgian will do all the domestic flying and get the Emb and Airbus and Jazz gets all the overseas flying. WJ is getting A380s and will start nonstop service YKL-NRT and BJG. All mainline AC pilots will be given "an attractive severance package" and will be retrained as professional aircraft groomers if they so desire, with excellent benefits. Stay tuned. All within a matter of weeks. I heard this.

Awww mann! I am not looking fwd to grooming that thing on a 25 min turn

[Rubberbiscuit]

Never say never. Wasn't a deal along the lines of the Cross Air / Swiss Air takeover considered the last time AC entered into bankruptcy protection? The unions won't allow it you say? What about this outrageous talk of companies being allowed to erase/annull all union contracts under new CCRA law? Hope for everyones sake that does never happen....

[Brick Head]

Never say never. Wasn't a deal along the lines of the Cross Air / Swiss Air takeover considered the last time AC entered into bankruptcy protection?

New on me. Makes a good story though.

What about this outrageous talk of companies being allowed to erase/annull all union contracts under new CCRA law? Hope for everyone's sake that does never happen....

New on me as well.

The house has introduced CCAA reform. Bill C55. The legislation hasn't changed in decades. New for labor-The court will have the power to force open a collective agreement. The court can not nullify or do other wise. The collective agreement will be in force until a new one negotiated. The court has no jurisdiction to force or just implement an agreement under the proposed legislation. The change is designed to prevent labor from legally refusing to participate in a reorganization

Another change is that DIP financing comes above secured creditors. IOW above pensions. This has a few people upset.

[Martin Tamme]

Truth be told, Air Canada was looking at re-negotiating Article 1.09.01 with ACPA. However, I understand everything has been put on hold -awaiting futher orders- since the change at the top occured (Montie out, Calin in).

[Disco Stu]

These rumours of airplanes going from AC to Jazz are ridiculous. You Jazzers need to stop listening to your bitter Picher era union leaders who still all believe they should be 777 Captains.

Do the math. 60 airplanes means HUNDREDS of crews who need to be hired and trained on the EMJ at Jazz. Hundreds of mainline pilots would be laid off, causing massive bumping system wide incurring millions in training costs. Maintenance would have to be trained at Jazz and laid off at AC. The transfer of 60 airplanes would also MASSIVELY violate the scope clause at mainline. The cost would be millions and millions in a time where AC is bleeding cash and doing all it can to stop the flow.

Scope is our number one negotiating priorty IMHO. I will not hesitate to vote "yes" to a strike over scope issues. Without scope, we have nothing.

[RFN]

As far as I understood it, the Union has nothing to do with the whole Picher affair nowadays.

Interesting stuff, that Picher thing. Too bad most of us were drunk under pool tables when it happened.
In other words, don't know who to believe.

Hey Disco Stu, did your family make it back from YOW ok? I actually ended up going through YQR and had no problem at all.
Oh yeah, and Andrea says HI.

[chatman]

As far as I understood it, the Union has nothing to do with the whole Picher affair nowadays.

Interesting stuff, that Picher thing. Too bad most of us were drunk under pool tables when it happened.
In other words, don't know who to believe.

Hey Disco Stu, did your family make it back from YOW ok? I actually ended up going through YQR and had no problem at all.
Oh yeah, and Andrea says HI.

That wouldn't be Andrea the mechanic is it????

[Stinky]

Do the math. 60 airplanes means HUNDREDS of crews who need to be hired and trained on the EMJ at Jazz. Hundreds of mainline pilots would be laid off, causing massive bumping system wide incurring millions in training costs. Maintenance would have to be trained at Jazz and laid off at AC. The transfer of 60 airplanes would also MASSIVELY violate the scope clause at mainline. The cost would be millions and millions in a time where AC is bleeding cash and doing all it can to stop the flow.

Good point, I was thinking the same thing, but then I thought about it some more. The costs might not be so bad because any restructuring would likely mean big reductions in flying. If they parked 20 Dash 8's, 20 RJ's and brought over 40 Embraers you wouldn't even need to hire. Any internal shuffling would be a benefit in the long term since you just end up with a group of pilots typed on multiple aircraft in the fleet. Any future shuffling with aircraft numbers would be cheaper and quicker due to the reduced training cost (recurrent vs initial)
The lower pay of Jazz pilots would essentially pay for their own new type rating within a year.

Additional fleet growth would be no problem, off the street guys are paid peanuts so they are basically paying for their own type rating. Laid off AC guys would presumably get onboard with their years of service transferred for pay and vacation, but still lower pay offsetting training costs. If they're typed on the Embraer it's a bonus for Jazz even if initially they fly something else.

I'm not trying to start any shit. I work for Jazz but I'm torn because it would be awesome to have more planes but I realize it would really erode things for everbody. The average pay system wide for pilots would be lower and thats not good for the profession.

[massey1]

this is silly. air canada no longer owns any part of Jazz. the only thing that ties us is a CPA agreement which is way
overpriced. the only people that can transfer or aquire new airplanes is jazz itself. Air Canada cannot just send them EMJ or airbus for that matter. Any info at this point is strictly rumours at this point. Jazz has to realize that they are now a stand alone company who maes money off Air Canada untill 2014 when the CPA expires. Any notion that EMJ or Airbus will end up at Jazz is a pipe dream. The more likely event will be that Jazz will lose the CPA agreement. Ive flown at both the mainline and Jazz and have realized one thing, the former AO pilots are holding on to a silly dream. we would all be better off without them.

[goingmach_1]

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

From what I hear, big changes are coming.

Think about it. There is a boat load of debt due, a militant workforce who feel they are owed in the next round. A struggling economy, gittery investors, changing management, and a company who is carrying on like all is good.

The world shes' changing!

Anything is possible.

Look at other legacy carriers, they have had dramatic changes. Pensions overhauled, or worse, canceled. Contracts changed.

Standby for further.

[bmc]

like your dentist, barber, mailman and neighbour?

gimme a break

Ditto, sounds like a pot stirring.

Rumours are a waste of everybody's time and energy.

One wouldn't be a pilot if he wasn't spreading rumours.

[Rex Kramer]

Rumor.
I have heard this from quite a few people lately. Even Jaques Kafavian.
Apparently Georgian will do all the domestic flying and get the Emb and Airbus and Jazz gets all the overseas flying. WJ is getting A380s and will start nonstop service YKL-NRT and BJG.
All mainline AC pilots will be given "an attractive severance package" and will be retrained as professional aircraft groomers if they so desire, with excellent benefits. Stay tuned. All within a matter of weeks. I heard this.

That was beautiful!

[mattedfred]

this is silly. air canada no longer owns any part of Jazz. the only thing that ties us is a CPA agreement which is way
overpriced. the only people that can transfer or aquire new airplanes is jazz itself. Air Canada cannot just send them EMJ or airbus for that matter. Any info at this point is strictly rumours at this point. Jazz has to realize that they are now a stand alone company who maes money off Air Canada untill 2014 when the CPA expires. Any notion that EMJ or Airbus will end up at Jazz is a pipe dream. The more likely event will be that Jazz will lose the CPA agreement. Ive flown at both the mainline and Jazz and have realized one thing, the former AO pilots are holding on to a silly dream. we would all be better off without them.

does that mean that you won't accept a job offer from JALP if, in the unlikely event, you get furloughed from AC because you are "better off without" JALP?

[tonysoprano]

...somehow I don't see ALPA making such offers anyway. And please adopt a good spellcheck program...

[mattedfred]

edited for improper grammar

[alpha]

Inside perspective of what's ailing Air Canada. As an Air Canada employee, unbiased, I see firsthand what is causing the gradual demise of this company. The first major problem is no communication between management and employees. Second, ongoing deep resentment with the ex canadian people. They still feel bitter about the merger and take it out on passengers and their fellow employees daily, with their attitudes. Cannot seem to come to terms with what has happened. Third, poor manpower planning and understaffed, resulting in tons of overtime!, costing the company a fortune. Fourth problem, 5 union groups within the company,all blaming each other when the going gets tough. Fifth, a spoiled pilots group....unbelievable sense of entitlement..... still fighting like school kids. If any group pushes Air Canada to CCAA....this will be the group. Sixth problem, too many aircraft types....cost of retraining very expensive! Seventh problem. Retarded union mentality....I see it everyday. Senior guys do nothing, while the part-time employees work their butts off. If their is any problem, it will be delegated to someone else.....god help you if you work outside your scope of responsibility.....you will have a grievance filed against you. I could go on and on all night. It's frustrating knowing that as an employee, there is not much you can do to alter or change this outdated, prehistoric union mentality that punishes hard work or innovative thinking....management does not care either......it's the status quo.....If we do not change our ways and start making an effort to change, this airline will eventually fade away into oblivion. The way Air Canada currently operates, it will not survive in the new economy. I hate to bring up West jet.....but they have us beat when it comes to pleasing the flying public. We need to understand that the customer is king in this business.....if not, it will not take long before Air Canada is second place in market share. The biggest hurdle is of course the greedy CEO's running the show as well as the financial gymnastics which have stripped this company to the bone! The pension issue is troublesome as well.....let's face it, the defined benefit plan is toast! No company can operate and make a profit having to pay into that plan in this day and age.May have worked in the past....not anymore! So we will have to adjust to the new realities of the economy.

[Jastapilot]

Inside perspective of what's ailing Air Canada. As an Air Canada employee, unbiased, I see firsthand what is causing the gradual demise of this company. The first major problem is no communication between management and employees. Second, ongoing deep resentment with the ex canadian people. They still feel bitter about the merger and take it out on passengers and their fellow employees daily, with their attitudes. Cannot seem to come to terms with what has happened. Third, poor manpower planning and understaffed, resulting in tons of overtime!, costing the company a fortune. Fourth problem, 5 union groups within the company,all blaming each other when the going gets tough. Fifth, a spoiled pilots group....unbelievable sense of entitlement..... still fighting like school kids. If any group pushes Air Canada to CCAA....this will be the group. Sixth problem, too many aircraft types....cost of retraining very expensive! Seventh problem. Retarded union mentality....I see it everyday. Senior guys do nothing, while the part-time employees work their butts off. If their is any problem, it will be delegated to someone else.....god help you if you work outside your scope of responsibility.....you will have a grievance filed against you. I could go on and on all night. It's frustrating knowing that as an employee, there is not much you can do to alter or change this outdated, prehistoric union mentality that punishes hard work or innovative thinking....management does not care either......it's the status quo.....If we do not change our ways and start making an effort to change, this airline will eventually fade away into oblivion. The way Air Canada currently operates, it will not survive in the new economy. I hate to bring up West jet.....but they have us beat when it comes to pleasing the flying public. We need to understand that the customer is king in this business.....if not, it will not take long before Air Canada is second place in market share. The biggest hurdle is of course the greedy CEO's running the show as well as the financial gymnastics which have stripped this company to the bone! The pension issue is troublesome as well.....let's face it, the defined benefit plan is toast! No company can operate and make a profit having to pay into that plan in this day and age.May have worked in the past....not anymore! So we will have to adjust to the new realities of the economy.

Pretty much everything you said made sense, except for what I bolded. Now I'm not an AC employee, or a fan, but you have got to be kidding me if you expect me to buy this little tidbit. Seriously!?