20K training bond for a Metro??

[Mustang06]

20K training bond to fly a Metro, can somebody explain me this?
How much it’s the average cost of one hour to justify that amount of money in your training?
Thanks folks!

[LegoMan]

if the training is done down in the states on the sim. then $20k for the course sounds right. its about $18k for the B1900

[Mustang06]

down in the states a type rating on Airbus 320 cost you around 11K, so 18 for a Metro?

[Just another canuck]

I've heard the Metro is one the cheapest planes out there to operate... care on sharing which company this is? I know Bearskin's is 10,000 dollars for their Metro training. You gotta pay for it though and it's a 2 year deal.

Can't really comment on sim training. I think the Van one is around 5 grand. 18 for the 1900... you sure someone isn't yanking your chain? or is Beech training just more costly then Cessna training... actually, I seem to recall 9500 for the Conquest.

[LegoMan]

the reason the 737s and a320 type ratings are cheap is because they do so many of them. I mean im willing to guess that the 737 and a320s are the two most popular planes in the sky right now. however you try to get a type rating on a global express - $35K or a gulfstream IV - $40,000. They are fewer of them and therefore the training is ridiculously expensive

[AV8R]

1900 14K at Flight safety in YYZ

[Mustang06]

10K sounds reasonable for me, but 20 it’s just too much, I guess houses are not the only things that are more expensive in the west coast.

[privateer]

I've heard about 22K for 1900 bond if its done at sim. The 20K for a Metro isn't that far off the mark if it done in a Sim. Especially the Metro 23 with the EFIS and all the bells and whistles. Besides its way better training than you'll get in the airplane I think.

[mbav8r]

Mustang06, I completely oppose the use of bonds as they are a licence for the company to abuse you. You can't just quit if they are shady because you would incur lawyer expenses to fight the bond etc..
I don't want to get in a debate over bonds, merely pointing out something obvious. That being said, My understanding is that a company can only charge the amount of expense incurred no more. So 20000.00 seems high, so I would suspect they have included everything like hotel, per diems, etc. I would ask for a breakdown. Also I wouldn't sign a contract that doesn't stipulate that if you quit for just cause that the bond is paid out. Then document everything, record every conversation you have with management if possible. Sounds bad, but if you played a tape of your C.P. asking you to fly a broken aircraft while you are handing in your resignation, their tune would change in a hurry.
P.S you can buy a little pocket recorder at the source or alike.

[props ahead]

2 year 20,000 dollar bond with next to nothing for pay in a big city.....sounds like a nightmare to me!
As much as I want to get flying again almost anything would be better than this. It would suck to be stuck with this bond if the industry picked up again....

[ScudRunner]

Well you guys are forgetting a few things the company pays in addition to the training.

Lets say 1900D at FS in YYZ


Sim Training = 14,000
Airline Ticket = 700 (EG.YYC-YYZ return)
Hotel = 1400 (two weeks at $100 Night)
Per Diems = 840 ($60 a Day 14/days)
Wages = 2300 (60K a year 2 weeks)
Check Pilot = 1320 (Airline ticket/2 nights hotel/ 2 day per diems/ 300 Ride)

TOTAL = $20560

I'm surely forgetting some other costs associated with getting you online such as company ground schools CRM Course's etc.

Mbav8r: you beat me to it

[Mustang06]

I’m seriously thinking about leaving the Industry, this has no sense at all.
Lets find a real job and buy a C150 to fly whenever I want.
This is completely crazy.

[Rowdy]

I’m seriously thinking about leaving the Industry, this has no sense at all.
Lets find a real job and buy a C150 to fly whenever I want.
This is completely crazy.

Might be a wise idea for you.



ETTW has the best signature. The company pays you to make them money, they do not pay you to break airplanes and if they don't make money you don't have a job. I don't wholeheartedly agree with up front money for bonds, but signing a contract stating you aren't gonna leave so long as they meet their end of the deal is just buisness. Remember it goes two ways. If they don't honour their offer and what was presented to you at the time you signed on the line, that little contract means nothing in any court. However, it also keeps you honest and from running off to bigger and better after they've just spent the big bucks to train you.

Scuds on the ball. Training isn't cheap. There are a lot of hidden costs. Don't forget they have to pay one of the training skippers to line indoc you now too..

[Doc]

I’m seriously thinking about leaving the Industry, this has no sense at all.
Lets find a real job and buy a C150 to fly whenever I want.
This is completely crazy.

This is perhaps the most intelligent thing I have ever seen posted on the subject of training bonds!
The rest of you are simply suckers! Sign your life away for two years, for the privilege of kissing some scum company's ass! Absolute stupidity in it's purest form!
BRAVO!!

[Doc]

but signing a contract stating you aren't gonna leave so long as they meet their end of the deal is just buisness.

How do you figure that? Training should be a "cost of doing business", not a means to enslave pilots to stupid to say..."No"...

This whole "bond" thing is a one way street. It benefits the employer ONLY. There is NO mutual protection for the pilot. Some line captain takes a dislike to you, and you are TOAST! No if's and's or but's.....your ass is back on the Interstate! And, now you owe this scum sucking company money!

[Mustang06]

wait a minute, if they fire you you still owe them money?

[Doc]

wait a minute, if they fire you you still owe them money?

DUH....ya.

[mattedfred]

am i a contract pilot or aren't i?

if i am then the penalties for leaving a contract early would be spelled out quite clearly

if i am not then why not pay me a bonus if i stay after a certain date rather than requiring me to pay any monies up front

[Doc]

am i a contract pilot or aren't i?

if i am then the penalties for leaving a contract early would be spelled out quite clearly

if i am not then why not pay me a bonus if i stay after a certain date rather than requiring me to pay any monies up front

You crack me up!

[mattedfred]

my bond at perimeter was $6000 for 18 months back in 95'

we trained in the aircraft at that time

i regret the decision to accept the job

[Mustang06]

wait a minute, if they fire you you still owe them money?

DUH....ya.

I can't believe it!

[Doc]

Pretty sure Thunder Airlines has a retention bonus. Seems a fair way to operate.

[wallypilot]

down in the states a type rating on Airbus 320 cost you around 11K, so 18 for a Metro?

I call BS on the A320 cost. If it's a reputable training organization, there's now way it's even close to 11K. 30K minimum.

[sepia]

Well you guys are forgetting a few things the company pays in addition to the training.

Lets say 1900D at FS in YYZ


Sim Training = 14,000
Airline Ticket = 700 (EG.YYC-YYZ return)
Hotel = 1400 (two weeks at $100 Night)
Per Diems = 840 ($60 a Day 14/days)
Wages = 2300 (60K a year 2 weeks)
Check Pilot = 1320 (Airline ticket/2 nights hotel/ 2 day per diems/ 300 Ride)

TOTAL = $20560

I'm surely forgetting some other costs associated with getting you online such as company ground schools CRM Course's etc.

Mbav8r: you beat me to it

They would have to pay you your wages if you were training or if you were in Sim. With that logic you should pay them a 45k bond for your 45k/yr salary.

[mbav8r]

Pretty sure Thunder Airlines has a retention bonus. Seems a fair way to operate

I wonder how long the retention bonus policy will stick around, now that the industry is favoring the employer. It's probably already not being offered to new hires. Heard this song before promises, promises oh look they have no where to go, lets see how much we can get out of them for how little...

This is nothing against Thunder, just 703/704 ops in general hopefully Thunder shows some integrity during this time of economic slow down..