No particular reason

[highlander]

Well for no particular reason i decided to post this. It's taken me a while to do it so here it goes.

About 8 years ago I lost a good friend in a plane crash in which he was the PIC. To this day we don't really have a full explanation. At that time it was my first real experience dealing with the loss of a loved one or a close friend in an accident- aviation or not.

At that time I seriously considered quitting aviation because I saw how this tragedy really afected the people around me that knew him. I realized though that quitting wasn't the answer and the day i quit flying....murphy's law says i will probably get run over by a bus....

To this day, everyday, even if it's only for a brief moment...I do think about him. I was wondering if other people out there have had similar experiences and how they deal with it. I am very proud to be a pilot...don't get me wrong...I am very happy with what I do.

I'll leave it at that

[Widow]

I'm sorry for your loss highlander. Not knowing, or understanding, exactly what happened can make it very difficult to achieve closure.

I know my situation is a little different, but for the record, I have flown several times since I lost my husband and I have not been afraid (although I am feeling a little nervous about an upcoming flight ... ). I've even thought about one day getting my PPL, as my husband had so often talked of doing. I know enough about the industry to be able to make sound decisions, and I suspect that having suffered the loss of your friend, you likely make decisions slightly differently that you once did.

Acceptance is key. I found a reason why my husband had to be on the plane that day. A lesson that would not have been learned without having to lose him. Something about fitting my loss into the bigger picture has been very healing.

But, you may never stop thinking about or missing your friend.

Time does not bring relief; you all have lied, Who told me time would ease me of my pain!
I miss him in the weeping of the rain; I want him at the shrinking of the tide;
The old snows melt from every mountain-side, And last year's leaves are smoke in every lane;
But last year's bitter loving must remain, Heaped on my heart, and my old thoughts abide.
There are a hundred places where I fear to go - so with his memory they brim.
And entering with relief some quiet place where never fell his foot or shone his face
I say, 'There is no memory of him here!' And so stand stricken, so remembering him.

(by Edna St Vincent Millay)

Over time, the thoughts and memories come less frequently, but the pain never goes away.

[Sulako]

Yup, I had a very similar experience, only we knew what caused the accident. It was in a Cessna 185 on floats - the plane had just come out of inspection and the fuel selector was set to 'off' despite the fact there isn't supposed to be an 'off' position in a 185. We figure he just felt down between the seats and felt the fuel selector facing 12 o'clock when it was in fact facing 6 o'clock, because normally there is a plastic guard that prevents the fuel selector from being in the 6 o'clock position. Normally, but not that day. Anyway, with the fuel selector in the off position that gives a 185 just enough gas to get about 250' airborne before the engine quits. Which it did. My friend, flying solo, attempted a 180 and hit the shoreline before making the turn all the way around, fatally injuring himself. He was 23 and had 650 hours and it was a really rotten situation. I think about him just about every day also, and it's been 12 years since his accident. There are a bunch of things I can learn from his accident and that helps a little bit. My condolences on your loss, it's a hard thing to lose a friend to flight.

[LegoMan]

Not aviation related, but my sisters father-in-law whom she had a great relationship passed away 2 months ago in a tragic car accident in Buffalo on the same day the Dash 8 Q400 crashed. I too was close with him so it was hard to deal with it for the entire family as 4 months earlier my sister got married, less than 2 months earlier we spent christmas together and now we were burying him. He died on the way home from an Ambulance sale. He loved to go county to county selling ambulances. He was on his way home to tell us he sold another one when he lost control and his SUV flipped over 3 times and landed roof first in a ditch that had 4 feet of water. Not knowing how he died made it hard, the pain was eased by the fact that he died doing what he loved, which is what your friend did. We did find out that indeed he drowned.

Best of luck to you.

[Just another canuck]

I was only in the industry 3 months when a pilot at the company I was working at crashed. I didn't know him really well, but to this day they still don't know what happened. I was the last one to talk to him. I fueled and loaded his plane. I even kicked off one unruly passenger prior to the flight who had too much to drink. I gave him the external start and waived good bye. And to top it off I was supposed to go on the flight as I hadn't had a chance to get up in an airplane since flight school. It was a last minute decision not go as I had worked 16 hours on the ramp already and was just beat. But I still can't help to think that had I gone, maybe the scenario would have played out differently. I know I was only a fresh pilot right out of flight school, but it still really bothers me to this day and think about it quite often.

Another crash more recently was a PC-6 that went down in Papua. Again, I wasn't really close with the pilot involved but I had had a few friendly dinners with him and always chatted on the ramp. He was flying the Porter in Papua for over 10 years and had almost 10,000 hours there I believe. He flew right into the side of the mountain. It's a dangerous place, but with the amount of experience he had in the area and the airplane, it just goes to show that letting your guard down for just a moment can lead to a disastrous situation. This crash taught me never to think you are invincible. SOP's are there for a reason. Don't cut corners... on tracks, in flight planning, T/O or departure procedures, etc., etc. and don't ever think it can't happen to you because that's when you are most vulnerable.

Finally, the most significant but non-aviation death that has affected me was a friend of mine passed away from cancer at the age of 22. I'm from a small town (1200 people) and there were 7 of us friends who were like family to one another. He was part of this 7 and even more, he was the glue that held us all together. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't think about him. It's been 5 years now and once in awhile I still have to take a moment to just gather myself. Mostly at times when the 6 of us are together that are still alive or when I return to my home town. I was going through old pictures the other day and nearly started crying but at the same laughed my ass off. He was a really funny guy. I miss him very dearly and always will.


I think these situations affect certain people differently mostly because of the way they choose to deal with them. Some choose to remember, some choose to forget... usually because it's just too hard. I think it's important to deal with it mentally and emotionally. You'll be a better person for it and later on you'll be just able to think of the ones you loved that are gone and smile.

[flyinthebug]

(I) We lost 11 in one terrible accident in my 2nd year in commercial aviation. Ice was the issue in this crash..Completely preventable. I knew and worked with 5 people that were onboard, daily.. and flew 3 of the others at least 3 times a week. I lost 8 friends and a very close friend that day..as well as a very decent CP... It was a difficult loss to say the least and I too considered quitting. Instead I took 4 weeks off and decided that i knew I still belonged in the cockpit and wanted to fly. Its been a great career choice and wouldnt trade it for anything.
It is interesting to hear others have been through similiar situations. Misery does indeed love company I guess.

Either way, Cheers to those that went ahead of us and ahead of their time.

Fly safe all.

[LegoMan]

Once you are a pilot, you can never be happy doing something else for a living.

[Cat Driver]

Once you are a pilot, you can never be happy doing something else for a living.

Nothing is forever, some of us are happier working in another field of employment.

I know I am because one day I had finally had enough of the B.S. that has proliferated beyond control in aviation.

Quitting aviation was one of my best decisions.

[flyinthebug]

Once you are a pilot, you can never be happy doing something else for a living.

Nothing is forever, some of us are happier working in another field of employment.

I know I am because one day I had finally had enough of the B.S. that has proliferated beyond control in aviation.

Quitting aviation was one of my best decisions.

Cat: Im sure that statement is purely from a business perspective?..As there is far too much passion in your stories for you to have ever lost your love of flying! I`d say thats a safe bet And may I ask, when did you actually pull the pin and quit doing commercial work?
Cheers

[180guy]

It has been over 30 years now, since I first lost a buddy to an aviation related accident ...
Over the years, certainly more friends have been lost ...
As I continue active in the industry ... my passion for aviation decreases with each loss.
Sometimes I get mad ...
Sometimes I cry ...
Sometimes I go flying ...

[Cat Driver]

Cat: Im sure that statement is purely from a business perspective?..As there is far too much passion in your stories for you to have ever lost your love of flying! I`d say thats a safe bet And may I ask, when did you actually pull the pin and quit doing commercial work?

I still like to fly but when I want to, I retired three years ago when I turned seventy and it had nothing to do with my health or my age it was all the bureaucratic B.S. that is slowly choking commercial aviation.

My last few years were spent training and flying in the airshow circuit in Europe and there was just far to much B.S. to put up with so I decided to quit while I was still partly sane.

As to the subject of this thread I also have lost far to many friends in the flying business, but I learned to just accept it as there was nothing I could have done to change it......but for sure it is depressing.

Some years ago I thought I could help to make at least some changes to the accident rate by opening a flight school and offering training for new commercial pilots to the standard that I was teaching in the bigger airplane sector of aviation.

But it was not to be as TC refused to approve my application for the flight school...so @#$! aviation I'm out of it and quite happy to no longer be part of it.

[Just another canuck]

Cat, I would just like to say that most people can't wait for retirement. It says a lot that you flew commercially until the age of 70... I'll guess that you could have retired long before this age. My old man retired and 55 and not a moment too soon according to him. So I ask you this... why is that you and others put up with the B.S. of aviation? Why did you choose not to retire years ago? I think that's what flyinthebug was saying. We as pilots have a passion for our jobs that is pretty hard to find in most other industries I think... I remember what a senior instructor said to us at the beginning of flight school years ago now "If you ever hear an airplane overhead and don't look up, it's time to change careers." Obviously as you get older the thrill will slowly melt away for some people, depending on what you are doing within the industry, but I do believe that quote is still quite valid.

That said Cat, I congratulate you on your long and prosperous career. I'm sure it was a blast.

[lilfssister]

Once you are a pilot, you can never be happy doing something else for a living.

Nothing is forever, some of us are happier working in another field of employment.

I know I am because one day I had finally had enough of the B.S. that has proliferated beyond control in aviation.

Quitting aviation was one of my best decisions.

Good grief, Kitty! You haven't quit, you're still HERE! You just aren't getting paid

[Cat Driver]

I post here because I am and was a member of the flying fraternity, I do not want to hijack this thread about pilots dying in airplane crashes and the grief those who knew them feel.

However I do feel that it is or should be educational for those of you who are just starting your careers...so I will answer this.

Cat, I would just like to say that most people can't wait for retirement. It says a lot that you flew commercially until the age of 70... I'll guess that you could have retired long before this age.

Yes I would have retired sooner but I just couldn't because after I left Canada my career just skyrocketed up,up, and up and I was not about to jump off while it was going up.

Had I quit when I reached 60 which was my original plan I would have never had the chance to work for so many big name companies such as Air France / TF1 French TV / Airbus Industries / The French Flying Legends where I got my start in the air show business and the most treasured job I ever had which was flying for Miramax one of the worlds largest movie companies.

My old man retired and 55 and not a moment too soon according to him. So I ask you this... why is that you and others put up with the B.S. of aviation? Why did you choose not to retire years ago?

I guess you just get up in the morning to dumb to realize you could do something other than fly airplanes put on your clothes and head back to the airport and the airplane the only things you are familiar with.

I think that's what flyinthebug was saying. We as pilots have a passion for our jobs that is pretty hard to find in most other industries I think...

Yes, exactly and that probably explains why I stayed at it so long.

I remember what a senior instructor said to us at the beginning of flight school years ago now "If you ever hear an airplane overhead and don't look up, it's time to change careers." Obviously as you get older the thrill will slowly melt away for some people, depending on what you are doing within the industry, but I do believe that quote is still quite valid.

The thrill of flying never left me any more than the thrill of sex, what wore me down was the bureaucracy and the ever expanding stupid rules that some fuckin moron who couldn't find his ass with a set of moose antlers kept churning out under the guise of improving safety.

I finally couldn't take the insult to my ability as a pilot so I had to quit, how in @#$! do those morons think I flew 55 years without ever bending one if I was unable to figure out how to do it without their input?

That said Cat, I congratulate you on your long and prosperous career. I'm sure it was a blast.

Thank you I am truly grateful you feel that way......

....but here is the good part....I'm not dead yet and am actually considering doing some more training.....I would be killing two birds with one stone so to speak.

(1) Hopefully helping some young people just getting started.

(2) I still have some unfinished business with a few pricks over at TC in Vancouver and am looking forward to meeting them again....this time I don't really give a @#$! and it will be interesting to see what happens.

So yeh, I plan on doing some more teaching without TC's fucking approval.

Do you think I have a bad attitude?

[V1CUT]

Well when I was 16, about half way through my PPL i got the call early in the morning "There was an accident" immediatly your mind starts racing, who,what,when,where, and then why? I wasn't told over the phone so i was left hanging for quite a while on what happened, but i pretty much new in my mind what happened as my Dad left the night before. when i made it home I was sat down by many family members trying to keep things together, my tunnel vision started closing in and the words came out of my mother's mouth, the one's you never want to hear "your Dad's plane went down last night". first thing i said "where is he?" the next set of word's you never want to hear "he didn't make it".

I grew up in the world of aviation and love every minute of it. I thaught of quitting as well, but then you think, why would you give up your dream when someone you loved died fufilling their's. I know that he would give me a swift kick in the ass if i decided to waste a talent. Aviation is not the only career where lives are lost but we just have a bigger responsibility then most with risk management and knowing that every decision we make has an impact on so many lives.

I know when i go flying he's kick'n around keeping an eye on me and it makes me try to be a better pilot everytime i go up. it's 14 years later, do i miss him? yes on a daily basis, will i forget about him? never, but i think what pisses me off the most is I never got to work as his Co-pilot or better yet his Captain. now I'm Captain on a large aircraft and know i made the right choice, my Mom doesn't think so but i know she's proud.

Cheers

[Cat Driver]

my Mom doesn't think so but i know she's proud.

As well she should be.

[Driving Rain]

When I was taking my CPL at the Brampton Flying Club we had a bad couple of years 1969 -70. One of our students a very beautiful young woman was killed by a prop strike. It affected everyone, but most of all a guy I worked with there who was involved in the incident. His dad was a hydro pilot he'd grown up in aviation. I believe he would've had a great career ahead of him but the burden he carried had him reassess everything and he choose not to pursue a career in aviation.

The other incident happened to a very experienced pilot. I was working at the club taking bookings, gassing aircraft, keeping the club house clean. That afternoon an Air Canada pilot who in addition was a well known BFC board member walked in and started discussing the addition of runway lights to the strip. As we were looking out the window toward the runway we noticed some cows had wandered on to the field. Flight training was going on that day the cows had to be removed. The Air Canada pilot bolted for the door and started running for the clubs Citabria parked on the apron. I asked if I could go with him and he declined. I asked him why not and he got a little annoyed with me and told me to get in my car and herd them off the runway. I did has he asked.
Now anyone who as ever been around cows knows they react better to human shooing than machinery. I got out of my car and started them back to the fence-line. By now we were about midway across the runway and the Citabria started it's takeoff run from the north end, He took off, I watched him keep the nose low to gain speed. As he passed over the cows and my head by inches he pulled up into a steep wing over and headed back down toward us, I watched like a deer frozen in the headlights. He was coming straight at me and I couldn't move! At the last second the plane rolled slightly to the right and started it's dive recovery but it was too late. I watched in horror as the plane slammed into the ground. I ran a few feet over to where it had stopped. The wings were gone. They'd snapped off and flew forward landing hidden in the corn field beside the runway. I looked at the back seat area where if I'd gone I'd have been sitting. There was no longer a back seat area! I approached the pilot from behind and reached past the shattered window and touched him on the shoulder and asked if he was alright. I went around to face him and couldn't believe what I was seeing. There was not much left of his head and face. He'd been a large man and to see his body broken and twisted in such a horrible way was indescribable. I ran back to the club house in shock and tears and was told later I was almost hit by a landing plane I hadn't noticed.

The police and Transport poured over the scene. The next day I had my interview with the crash investigators. As I told my story to them the eldest of the two gentleman started to tear up. He ushered me over to the desk and opened a pilots log book. I will never ever forget it. The book was one of those thick professional pilot log books. This AC pilot had been ex military and had more time upside down than I had total. The book was mostly filled, he had almost 22,000 hours. The pen he used to write in it was always black ink and was immaculate. Then he turned the book to the front page. There was a photo pasted in of a crashed and crumpled Cessna 120 taken years before at the Welland Airport. In his own hand writing he stated that a young boy and young girl were both killed in this aircraft because the boy was doing low level aerobatics in an effort to empress her.
This kindly inspector told me never ever forget the lessons you learn. I've tried very hard not to. One week later I took and passed my CPL ride.

[yfly]

Over the years I have lost more than a few good friends and acquaintances to aviation accidents.

I don't think of them daily but I do when thumbing through the logbook, news clippings or photo albums. I only think of the great times we shared and never the tragedy of their demise. That said, while they have moved on, their lessons remain and I am sure I use those lessons daily.

[...]

Well for no particular reason i decided to post this. It's taken me a while to do it so here it goes.

To this day, everyday, even if it's only for a brief moment...I do think about him. I was wondering if other people out there have had similar experiences and how they deal with it.

Thanks for sharing highlander.

As you can see, there are many others that have had a terrible loss such as yourself.

My loss has been well documented in this site. 14 colleagues in one sitting. I could have been on that flight.

How do we deal with it? Time has a way of healing...and time also has a way of eventually exposing the truth.

Although we may never understand why events unfolded the way they did under the circumstances, I can only try to do what I can to help prevent future accidents from EVER happening again. That's a loaded phrase, however it helps me feel that their deaths were not in vain when I see the same type of company culture AND philosophy still exsisting today. It's a shame that there are still complacent, non-proactive attitudes still existing in aviation. It's shameful that it takes someone to die for those attitudes to change.

8 years for you is still fresh. 19 years for me and I can still hear their voices in joyous laughter celebrating life. I think your friend would want you to celebrate YOUR life to the fullest as my friends would want the same of those that they have left behind.

That's what I think.

[highlander]

I have to say that reading all of your posts has been some what of a comfort to me. I have always felt that in aviation we seem reluctant to share our losses or failures. And yet we all seem to be stronger and better for them. I am glad I am not alone in this.

Happy Landings! Fly Safe!

[beaverbob]

Since I started flying I have lost so many friends that I can hardly keep track any more.

1 north of Terrace (Navajo),
1 in Williams Lake(C-185),
2 in the Arctic in separate accidents (Twin otter),
1 north of Smithers(Beaver),
1 on Burnaby mountain (Sikorsky Helicopter),
1 near Pitt meadows(Hughes 500 slinging plywood) and
1 into a residence in Powell River(C-150) and
1 good friend lost, I don't know where or what plane.
plus a few more.

I think the important thing is that we have to keep on living and flying and take every accident as a lesson to help reduce our own chances of an accident.
It seems like the older I get the more friends and family I loose.

And, Yes, I think about them all at one time or another. Usually when I'm reminded by some other incident.

BB