Serious answers where will I get funds from?

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ayseven
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by ayseven »

How long is a piece of string?

I started in this game sometime in the last century. I worked for a small airline, saved like mad, did not go into any debt, and paid for my flight time, while paying rent at home and elsewhere. I have to admit, due to the long periods of unemployment, I was burnt out by the time my career got legs, so I quit, and went into something else that actually made money.

Lesson? If you want it badly enough, you can do it. Never take no for an answer, stay positive, and even if you do not feel you fit in everywhere, as you progress, your own personal goals become clearer. Do not give up hobbies, especially ones that don't cost anything.

Aviation is a tough world. Nobody will hold you by the hand and tell you how to get ahead, because they all want your job, and get upset when you get the one they wanted. The only field probably worse is the entertainment business. Did I say, "stay positive"?
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rookiepilot
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by rookiepilot »

The fact anyone even considers Go - Fund me to try to leech money for flight training off of their friends and total strangers shows how far we as a society have fallen.

No pride even competing with cancer patients and others who have actually experienced real tragedy is truly disgusting.

I wouldn't speak two words to any pilot who I knew had done this.
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photofly
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by photofly »

rookiepilot wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:23 am I wouldn't speak two words to any pilot who I knew had done this.
Pinkie promise? :D
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OraliaAssus
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Serious answers where will I get funds from

Post by OraliaAssus »

As a young bloke about to spend a significant amount of cash on my training I want to be sure Im doing the training at the right place.

I understand I need to look at the schools track record, what opportunities they can offer me when I finish, be comfortable with my instructor etc. but Id be keen to hear the opinions of people in the industry.

I live in Adelaide but plan on moving to Canberra in the near future. I have plenty of family there and can get good money to assisst in paying for the training. My thoughts therefore were to train with HeliAir. Can anyone independent recommend or advise against this?

Thanks in advance
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TalkingPie
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by TalkingPie »

I'm old (36) and a very new pilot student, still working on finishing my PPL, but my path to financing the training might be of interest to other entrants into the profession.

Consider becoming a flight attendant, especially if you're younger with few commitments, speak a second (or third) language, and live near a base of one of the major airlines. I was 27; at 18 would be better. The barrier to entry is low; 6-8 weeks of training for which you are paid. After that, wages start off low, but they climb to interesting levels - I'm grossing $75k with per diems this year as a service director with great benefits and pension plan, though most aspiring pilots wouldn't care to amass the amount of seniority that I have. More importantly, the schedule is irregular but with a minimum of 13 days off a month I have a lot of time for study and flight training. I completed a business degree from scratch while doing this job before deciding the time was right to jump into flying (2011 was not a good time to become a pilot). So far it looks like I won't have to take on any debt for my flight training through multi-IFR, despite owning a decent house and two paid-for cars.

You also get the benefit of lots of contact with seasoned pilots, who are only too happy to offer their experience and advice once they learn of your plans. You get to see if the airline life is for you, because flight attendants have a very similar work schedule to an airline pilot. You also get the travel benefits, and a foot in the door at an airline, which may prove beneficial to finding a job later. I can also promise you that your CRM with cabin crew will be improved if you've worked in the cabin.

Airlines are looking for flight attendants, so it's worth a try to put in your application. I had a background in auto mechanics and technical data controlling in aircraft engine maintenance, and it's worked out pretty well for me.
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PilotDAR
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by PilotDAR »

You also get the benefit of lots of contact with seasoned pilots, who are only too happy to offer their experience and advice once they learn of your plans. You get to see if the airline life is for you, because flight attendants have a very similar work schedule to an airline pilot. You also get the travel benefits, and a foot in the door at an airline, which may prove beneficial to finding a job later. I can also promise you that your CRM with cabin crew will be improved if you've worked in the cabin.
Very wise advice! If you want to be in an industry, the first step is to be where it's happening. Being paid to be there, in any capacity, is even better!
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ghkj1023
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by ghkj1023 »

If you're in located in BC.. You can get interest-free loan from StudentAidBC.

If you're income is low enough, they will give you grants for your training as well.
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PilotTaylor
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by PilotTaylor »

im adding to this as I am unsure but also looking around.

private student loan from bank with collateral against your parents house if they will do that.

Student line of credit, probably need a co-signer. not sure of the amount.

Government student loans, max out at like 35k for the year. not enough to cover all of the training.

Private personal loan. from what I read not a recommended choice.

there really is limited options, especially if you have to relocate, pay all living costs and child support to boot. it can be done though, if you want it bad enough.

im currently looking into UVic if they will offer their diploma stand alone and without having to partner with the pacific flying club. id rather do my training locally and at home rent free. I actually have a relatively high paying job to help fund it.

im 27, and like other people at or near their 30's, being certified for me sooner than later is the best option imo. get trained, get working, start building.
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Walter Nöthling
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by Walter Nöthling »

Hi guys - FIRSTLY, I would like to say that I'm watching from the outside in. (South African Citizen).

I also had to work full time in order to obtain my Commercial License and now.... COVID-19

So my thought is the following - and I might put a lot of people off with the idea, but here goes:

Why not conduct your training in a country where training is more affordable for Canadians (stronger currency)? Example would be like South Africa.
PPL cost at the moment (and I don't know what your rates might be in CA) ranges from CAD $7500 - $9000. (Converted on 28/10/2020)
There are even cheaper options with Light Sport Aircraft.
Twins used for training when completing your Commercial License are generally BE55/ BE58's as well as PA34's. Their rates might vary, some flight schools are crazy with their prices - CAD $375 - $529/hr, but they average at around CAD $410/hr


Generally everything is cheaper in South Africa, but might come at a cost with regards to crime in the country - BUT if you stay out of dodgy areas, you're generally ok.


Should anyone be interested, I'd be more than happy to assist with some information regarding the training this side as well as any other questions you might have!


Let me know what you guys think and what the prices are like in Canada - just for interest sake, it would be interesting to see what the differences in prices may be!

Regards
Walter Nöthling
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Tiberius
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by Tiberius »

I will add my 2 cents. I know that this will be the least popular option because we live in a culture of instant gratification. But here it goes, I warn you, this may be controversial:

You can postpone your training for a while and WORK.

Work as much as you can while practicing minimalism. Assuming most of you can't live with your parents, here's what you do.

Move to a less populated area where rents are low. Pick up as much work as you can, work out a simple budget. For example, for take-home pay, 1/3 should be your rent,1/3 (maximum) expenses e.g. food, gas, cell phone, and the rest should go to your savings.

Alternatively, or concurrently, you can also learn a trade. And by that I mean something in construction. Welding, drywalling, carpentry etc. Unlike a degree, the amount of time and money you'll spend to secure a trade is negligible. Probably a year or 2. But the ROI is there, unless you want to stick with minimum wage as your default. I think with a trade, you'll reach your financial goals faster than to just stay in a service job, even if it means going in reverse initially.

Again, this is the least popular option because most people don't want to do the hard jobs that are difficult and arduous. You can lay out a path that's as clear as day, but in the end, only winners will tough it out and do what losers are either too lazy or too scared to do themselves.
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gtappl
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by gtappl »

Tiberius wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:17 pm I will add my 2 cents. I know that this will be the least popular option because we live in a culture of instant gratification. But here it goes, I warn you, this may be controversial:

You can postpone your training for a while and WORK.

Work as much as you can while practicing minimalism. Assuming most of you can't live with your parents, here's what you do.

Move to a less populated area where rents are low. Pick up as much work as you can, work out a simple budget. For example, for take-home pay, 1/3 should be your rent,1/3 (maximum) expenses e.g. food, gas, cell phone, and the rest should go to your savings.

Alternatively, or concurrently, you can also learn a trade. And by that I mean something in construction. Welding, drywalling, carpentry etc. Unlike a degree, the amount of time and money you'll spend to secure a trade is negligible. Probably a year or 2. But the ROI is there, unless you want to stick with minimum wage as your default. I think with a trade, you'll reach your financial goals faster than to just stay in a service job, even if it means going in reverse initially.

Again, this is the least popular option because most people don't want to do the hard jobs that are difficult and arduous. You can lay out a path that's as clear as day, but in the end, only winners will tough it out and do what losers are either too lazy or too scared to do themselves.
This is such terrible advice. In the 90's it was GET A DEGREE, now the same people are yelling GET A TRADE!

As someone whose good with their hands :smt040 I think at best 1 in 100 people are good enough to do a trade as a job, AND won't @#$! things up more than when they started. There is a reason mechanics charge more if you tried to fix a problem on your car first. Getting into the trades is a lot harder now as things are awkward with school and hiring.

Lastly, everyone always says move to this magical area where work is plentiful and rents are low. Rent is basically insane everywhere at least in Ontario, and moving isn't free. But it might help you find an area that's less saturated.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by rookiepilot »

Control your spending. Buy used. Live smaller and cheaper.
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by gtappl »

rookiepilot wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:21 pm Control your spending. Buy used. Live smaller and cheaper.
None of this is helpful. It's not more useful than saying have more money. Even if you're terrible with money, there aren't many things to blow it on in the last year minus ATV's
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by rookiepilot »

gtappl wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:24 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:21 pm Control your spending. Buy used. Live smaller and cheaper.
None of this is helpful. It's not more useful than saying have more money. Even if you're terrible with money, there aren't many things to blow it on in the last year minus ATV's
It's the most important principle that has worked for me in starting out in my first career over 30 years ago, then starting my small business 20 years ago, both periods involving extensive lean times.

To each his own -- good luck.
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Tiberius
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by Tiberius »

gtappl wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:06 pm
Tiberius wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:17 pm
This is such terrible advice. In the 90's it was GET A DEGREE, now the same people are yelling GET A TRADE!

As someone whose good with their hands :smt040 I think at best 1 in 100 people are good enough to do a trade as a job, AND won't @#$! things up more than when they started. There is a reason mechanics charge more if you tried to fix a problem on your car first. Getting into the trades is a lot harder now as things are awkward with school and hiring.

Lastly, everyone always says move to this magical area where work is plentiful and rents are low. Rent is basically insane everywhere at least in Ontario, and moving isn't free. But it might help you find an area that's less saturated.
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[/quote]

What would your advice be then? Trust me, the people in the 90's who said get a degree are still saying get a degree. I have a degree. Some degrees, like the one I have, are better than others. But I also have a trade which is where I started. Before that I was in retail at $8 per hour. Not every trade involves working with your hands in terms of building things. For example I have a friend who's a utility locate technician. He doesn't build anything, just walks around all day with some equipment and a can of spray paint. I'll agree that some people don't have that sort of manual dexterity for building and construction. I only say that because, as far as I know, it's a relatively short path. If not a trade, then perhaps the military? Or maybe a 2 year diploma in something technical?

Let me ask you this, if you can't sustain yourself in some sort of trade, then WTF are you doing trying to fly airplanes?

One is considerably more complicated than the other.

Nonetheless, a clear demonstration of what's wrong with millennials (or zoomers?) Put up a solution that involves something difficult and you'll find an excuse as to why you shouldn't do it, and then go back to bitching and moaning about "where do I find funds?" Everyone gets a trophy right? Sometimes in life you have to do things you don't want to do in order to get where you want to go; but as a young person, you do eventually have to make up your mind and do something.

Look at this another way. Flight training is not easy. It's a massive undertaking. If you want to get your money's worth, you'll need to devote a lot of time and attention to it and you need to make sure you get the most out of every lesson and flight that you pay for. How much more peace-of mind would you have during your training if you had the confidence knowing you could sustain yourself and recoup those training costs relatively easily through some other job or skill? If you're worrying about how to pay for you training before you start, trust me, you'll be worrying about it during training too. And that's not a good setup for being successful.

Or alternatively, just borrow a bunch of money, come out when there's a downturn, work ramp for a year, burn out, then go back to Startbucks to work as a barista with a ton of debt. Supply and demand, you'll be back at minimum wage. Queue the bitching and moaning.

As far as rents, yes they are high, but much higher in big cities like Toronto which is why I tell people to GTFO, (plus theres a lot of aholes too). If you don't want to do the trade route, then get 2 jobs and work your ass off while renting a room in a house shared with 4 or 5 other dudes. That's the other upside with a trade. You'll at least be able to afford an apartment to yourself and still save money.
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by Bede »

gtappl wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:06 pm As someone whose good with their hands :smt040 I think at best 1 in 100 people are good enough to do a trade as a job, AND won't @#$! things up more than when they started.
Isn't that the truth. I am always amazed at how much education I have yet how crappy my projects turn out....
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by rookiepilot »

There's always GoFund me.

You know, alongside cancer patients, ect.
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by digits_ »

Bede wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:23 am
gtappl wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:06 pm As someone whose good with their hands :smt040 I think at best 1 in 100 people are good enough to do a trade as a job, AND won't @#$! things up more than when they started.
Isn't that the truth. I am always amazed at how much education I have yet how crappy my projects turn out....
Until you realize you almost never do the same project twice... So all you ever do, by design, is making all the rookie mistakes :D
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gtappl
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by gtappl »

Tiberius wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:07 pm
gtappl wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:06 pm
Tiberius wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:17 pm
This is such terrible advice. In the 90's it was GET A DEGREE, now the same people are yelling GET A TRADE!

As someone whose good with their hands :smt040 I think at best 1 in 100 people are good enough to do a trade as a job, AND won't @#$! things up more than when they started. There is a reason mechanics charge more if you tried to fix a problem on your car first. Getting into the trades is a lot harder now as things are awkward with school and hiring.

Lastly, everyone always says move to this magical area where work is plentiful and rents are low. Rent is basically insane everywhere at least in Ontario, and moving isn't free. But it might help you find an area that's less saturated.
What would your advice be then? Trust me, the people in the 90's who said get a degree are still saying get a degree. I have a degree. Some degrees, like the one I have, are better than others. But I also have a trade which is where I started. Before that I was in retail at $8 per hour. Not every trade involves working with your hands in terms of building things. For example I have a friend who's a utility locate technician. He doesn't build anything, just walks around all day with some equipment and a can of spray paint. I'll agree that some people don't have that sort of manual dexterity for building and construction. I only say that because, as far as I know, it's a relatively short path. If not a trade, then perhaps the military? Or maybe a 2 year diploma in something technical?

Let me ask you this, if you can't sustain yourself in some sort of trade, then WTF are you doing trying to fly airplanes?

One is considerably more complicated than the other.

Nonetheless, a clear demonstration of what's wrong with millennials (or zoomers?) Put up a solution that involves something difficult and you'll find an excuse as to why you shouldn't do it, and then go back to bitching and moaning about "where do I find funds?" Everyone gets a trophy right? Sometimes in life you have to do things you don't want to do in order to get where you want to go; but as a young person, you do eventually have to make up your mind and do something.

Look at this another way. Flight training is not easy. It's a massive undertaking. If you want to get your money's worth, you'll need to devote a lot of time and attention to it and you need to make sure you get the most out of every lesson and flight that you pay for. How much more peace-of mind would you have during your training if you had the confidence knowing you could sustain yourself and recoup those training costs relatively easily through some other job or skill? If you're worrying about how to pay for you training before you start, trust me, you'll be worrying about it during training too. And that's not a good setup for being successful.

Or alternatively, just borrow a bunch of money, come out when there's a downturn, work ramp for a year, burn out, then go back to Startbucks to work as a barista with a ton of debt. Supply and demand, you'll be back at minimum wage. Queue the bitching and moaning.

As far as rents, yes they are high, but much higher in big cities like Toronto which is why I tell people to GTFO, (plus theres a lot of aholes too). If you don't want to do the trade route, then get 2 jobs and work your ass off while renting a room in a house shared with 4 or 5 other dudes. That's the other upside with a trade. You'll at least be able to afford an apartment to yourself and still save money.
My advice would be targeted to the individual. I don't think dozens of people saying spend less money is very helpful.

BTW I LOVE when people mention participation awards, it wasn't the zoomers who were giving them out... it was the boomer parents, oh the irony!

Trades aren't a bad idea it's just that everyone yells out that idea, and several are saturated. I believe people can make them work but I think we should tell people to try out things they may have an interest in and then branch out from there.

I've known and met dozens of people in the trades and not one person here has mentioned yearly temporary layoffs during the slow season are common, or driving 200/300 km in a day to get to a job. I know a friend who started a delivery business and he's making a lot more than his old construction job.
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lambman20
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Re: Serious answers where will I get funds from?

Post by lambman20 »

Does Alberta Student Aid provide funds for PPL ?
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