Pinetree Defense Line

[Pirate Pilot]

I was reading about the Dew Line and it occurred to me to look up the Pinetree Defense Line that was built south of the Dew Line.
I found a very interesting website that has many photos and stories regarding this piece of Canadian history. The website is: Pinetreeline.org/

[Idriveplane]

There was also the Mid Canada Line that ran from Dawson Creek BC to Northern Labrador. Pretty Interesting Stuff

http://www.lswilson.ca/mcl.htm

[2R]

Scarey to think that two foriegn superpowers where planning a nuclear war over Canada.
Where did they think those missiles would be shot down and the bombers interdicted ?
Best place for a nuclear exchange is over a nuclear free zone as those peasants cannot strike back let alone return fire with fire.

[CD]

Best place for a nuclear exchange is over a nuclear free zone as those peasants cannot strike back let alone return fire with fire.

Well, not entirely...

The Boeing CIM-10B Bomarc nuclear-armed surface-to-air interceptor missile equipped 446 and 447 Squadrons in North Bay, Ontario and La Macaza, Quebec respectively for North American air defence from 1961 to 1972.

Canada's Bomarc Missles

[SAR_YQQ]

Bomarc aside - we had Voodoos equipped with Genie missiles ready for a one way mission.

[2R]

"Not entirely" is right, Stored foreign armenments are not a deterance to deter aggressors from waging a war over Canada.
The ability to strike back at those engaged in war over our country is the only true deterance.
Storing weapons is not the same as having the ability to fight or defend your country from all acts of aggression.Against all those who would seek to use our territory for their wars.

Part of the reasoning behind the French independant nuclear deterance in europe was just that, to prevent the world from fighting a third world war on French soil.You might be shocked if you knew the target co-ordinates that where chosen by the French.One reason why every Swiss citizen has access to a nuclear shelter.

[2R]

Bomarc aside - we had Voodoos equipped with Genie missiles ready for a one way mission.

Suicide bombers ?

[Liquid Charlie]

the legend was full throttle to make the intercept and no fuel left to get home or to a suitable airport


Oh ya -- and the mess left behind --

[AntiNakedMan]

I have flown over a few Mid Canada Line sites, and still have plans to get in and check some of them out before they get too cleaned up...

[SAR_YQQ]

the legend was full throttle to make the intercept and no fuel left to get home or to a suitable airport

Not so much of a legend - more of what it was.

The Voodoo drivers knew that there was no way they could launch a Genie at an incoming Bomber and get away from the Nuclear blast. The drill was launch, 180 turn, full throttle.

When the boys held Q with these planes they signed for two aircraft - one nuclear and one non - the scramble call would determine which aircraft to take.

[roscoe]

Back in the day, a company I worked for purchased a decommissioned site for the thousands of gallons of fuel oil and the tanks it was in (Bear Island). They also purchased two D-8 Cats and a Power Wagon truck at Big Owl. We flew into Big Owl with a tractor mechanic to evaluate the state of the tractors, one of which was needing new clutches. The Herc tracks, and the Power Wagon tracks that ended where the ramp hit the ground, were still in the sand/gravel, when we got there.
The place looked like the folks had just gone walkabout, dishes and cutlery set neatly in the mess hall, bedding on the beds, with clean sheets, and the power house, you had to see it to beleive it. Honking great Lister-Blackstone deisel generators, shiny like a new penny, every nut and bolt head painted, and you could eat off the floor. Thre was a Case tractor with back-hoe and bucket on it and 10 hours on the clock, a brand new 4' snowblower still on the pallet, funny it didn't go flying too. The only damage,at that time was the towers had been dropped, not even a broken window.

[Idriveplane]

I always wondered what that airstrip was there for on Bear Island, after seeing it on Google earth. Anything else left there?

[gsfromc]

In the late '70's I was flying right seat in a Norcanair Canso waterbomber that was on contract in Ontario. Was a wet summer so we did some freight runs (building blocks) up to Ft. Severn and stopped at the old Norad base at Winisk. Same story, absolutely immaculate with lots of equipment just parked, huge empty hanger. And same story with the kitchen, dining hall, gym, etc.. ... looked like people just got up and walked away leaving dishes and such in place.

An earlier summer (pre-pilot days) I worked on a ship that delivered fuel oil to the DEW line sites from Tuk. At that time there was still a radar site every 150 miles all the way across from Alaska, but originally was one every 50 miles. A lot of money spent when you look at all the lines and all the sites with each (DEW, Mid-Canada and Pine Tree).

[wabano]

The deal with the Dew line was first canada buy a bunch of Voodoo and the USA a bunch
of CL-44, A WHOLE BUNCH MORE.

Then super cretin Lester Pearson cancel the deal and buy a bunch of useless Bomarcs.

And still have to buy Voodoos...



And 35 CL-44 sit unused at Cartierville for ages while the Air Canada assholes
buy a whole fleet of Vickers Vanguards, which was just as useful as Bomarcs...
(using the same engines, 30% less speed and range)...no wonder they lost billions!
On their first landing in Dorval, in front of all the ministers and the press galleries,
the limeys landed the mudguard on it's belly!!!




If the Canadian politicians had not been such a bunch of idiots,
Canadair-General Dynamics would have grown to twice the size of Boeing-Douglas combined.
And a built on time Coronado would have ruled the sky in the stead
of the 707 and the eight...

[Siddley Hawker]

A friend of mine who worked for the QNS&L RR in Schefferville went to one of the sites with a friends' Norseman. Can't remember which one maybe Border Beacon. He took apart a diesel generator and brought it back and sent it down to his retirement place in NS as a backup generator. A couple of years after he retired they had an ice storm down there and the power was off for a few days. He supplied enough juice for about half the village.

You might be shocked if you knew the target co-ordinates that where chosen by the French.One reason why every Swiss citizen has access to a nuclear shelter.

Heh heh, I've heard that before. Apparently some French general said, "All ze gold, m'sieu' will be radioactive."

[Pirate Pilot]

Thinking further about all these sites (Dew Line, Mid-Canada, Pinetree Defense) I got to wondering what kind of man-power and budgets were needed to operate all this stuff. Was Canada's national defense budget way bigger (in 1950's $) than it is now? Were there more armed forces personnel then? It would be interesting to see the comparable statistics. Perhaps the U.S. paid a lot of the costs and/or provided the equipment needed?

[SAR_YQQ]

Perhaps the U.S. paid a lot of the costs and/or provided the equipment needed?

Most of those stations were US funded and manned jointly by the two countries.

[just curious]

Up to the early 90's most of the Dew Line folks were employees of the Federal Electric Company. Training in Denver.

[N181CS]

The armed forces were considerably larger then, we had something like the 3rd largest airforce after the war. The CF went through massive down sizing in the early 90s. Lots of civilian employees at the sites as well.

[Siddley Hawker]

Contrary to those who think the Canadian military came into existance under Lester B. Pearson, at the end of WW2 Canada had the world's third largest navy, after the US and Britain and the fourth largest air force, behind the USSR, USAF and RAF. I can't remember where we stood with regards to the army. This was achieved by a nation of less than 20 million population.

[Oholio]

Canada had the world's third largest navy, after the US and Britain and the fourth largest air force, behind the USSR, USAF and RAF.

Come on, this is only because right after the war, Germany, Japan, Italy, France were still burning...

[SAR_YQQ]

Come on, this is only because right after the war, Germany, Japan, Italy, France were still burning...

As was Russia and the UK if you recall.

[CYOX]

Back in the day, a company I worked for purchased a decommissioned site for the thousands of gallons of fuel oil and the tanks it was in (Bear Island). They also purchased two D-8 Cats and a Power Wagon truck at Big Owl. We flew into Big Owl with a tractor mechanic to evaluate the state of the tractors, one of which was needing new clutches. The Herc tracks, and the Power Wagon tracks that ended where the ramp hit the ground, were still in the sand/gravel, when we got there.
The place looked like the folks had just gone walkabout, dishes and cutlery set neatly in the mess hall, bedding on the beds, with clean sheets, and the power house, you had to see it to beleive it. Honking great Lister-Blackstone deisel generators, shiny like a new penny, every nut and bolt head painted, and you could eat off the floor. Thre was a Case tractor with back-hoe and bucket on it and 10 hours on the clock, a brand new 4' snowblower still on the pallet, funny it didn't go flying too. The only damage,at that time was the towers had been dropped, not even a broken window.

That was the Mid Canada Line, and the Power Wagon was at Winisk. The IC in Winisk at the time was getting ready to bury the Truck and numerous other items. He suggested to the Herc crew that they could take the truck if they had room, as it would have been a waste to bury it. It was all owned by the Manitoba Government.

[roscoe]

Granted, it was the Mid-Canada Line, the item was done for perspective, re the way the sites were left, and the costs involved. However, I am accurate regarding which sites I was at, and the disappearance of "our" Power Wagon, Winisk was a fair distance from Big Owl, and I spent a little bit of time there as a learner mechanic, when TransAir of YWG based an Anson in Winisk as a inter-site courier aircraft, (61/62). The reason for the Anson was it was firstly cheap, and it handled the ever-present cross winds better than a C-45 (Beech 18), or so I was told. Probably cheap was the driving factor tho...

[CYOX]

Granted, it was the Mid-Canada Line, the item was done for perspective, re the way the sites were left, and the costs involved. However, I am accurate regarding which sites I was at, and the disappearance of "our" Power Wagon, Winisk was a fair distance from Big Owl, and I spent a little bit of time there as a learner mechanic, when TransAir of YWG based an Anson in Winisk as a inter-site courier aircraft, (61/62). The reason for the Anson was it was firstly cheap, and it handled the ever-present cross winds better than a C-45 (Beech 18), or so I was told. Probably cheap was the driving factor tho...

Where is Big Owl?