Sunwest

[pw308]

I have a question, and I'm sure we'll all beat the topic to death like any other thread about working the ramp, or comparable ground job. But does anyone know if Sunwest Aviation promotes from within from their ground crew? I've seen a few postings recently from them but was wondering if anyone has info on their internal progression. I, like a lot of people on here are looking to get their foot in the door to an entry level job. But they seem few and far between at the moment. I have 260TT and am having a hard time finding anything, including the ramp.

Any info is appreciated.

[V1 Rotate]

There was a program in place in YYC that hired ramp crew that were later qualified as Navajo or Caravan copilots.
I'm not sure of the status of this program now.

[Koizie1]

Work hard and you will get to fly. Like everywhere else the movement is slow at the moment. All navajo co-pilots are ex-ground crew.

[Brown Bear]

Rough translation......just another cheap skate operation getting cheap labour, using the old "dangling carrot" method of sucking in low time pilots. Always thought slave labour went out after the American Civil War?
And, still the dumb pilots line up.

[pw308]

Rough translation......just another cheap skate operation getting cheap labour, using the old "dangling carrot" method of sucking in low time pilots. Always thought slave labour went out after the American Civil War?
And, still the dumb pilots line up.

So, what would your best advice be? Even as an instructor, you're still hard pressed to find work at the moment. And I am taking my instructor rating. So it's not like i'm not trying to keep my options open. I know of plenty of people that started out on the ground, working dispatch, ramp, reservations.....whatever. And they are all flying for a reputable company now. I am willing to work a job that will lead to flying. Is there something wrong with that? Haven't you heard of interships or apprentice's before? Nobody ever start out at the top.

[Brown Bear]

Haven't you heard of interships or apprentice's before? Nobody ever start out at the top.

You'd call the right seat in a 'ho, "starting at the top"?
You have a CPL, I assume. Read it. I'm sure there are the words "COMMERCIAL PILOT LICENSE" noted somewhere on your license? At least, there was on mine. Do you see the word "apprentice", or "intern" anywhere on the license?
The only reason companies get away with using guys like you is....guys like you LET them.
I'm back to my cave on the subject.....Ciao

[altiplano]

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[privateer]

Brown Bear Wrote.

You'd call the right seat in a 'ho, "starting at the top"?
You have a CPL, I assume. Read it. I'm sure there are the words "COMMERCIAL PILOT LICENSE" noted somewhere on your license? At least, there was on mine. Do you see the word "apprentice", or "intern" anywhere on the license?
The only reason companies get away with using guys like you is....guys like you LET them.
I'm back to my cave on the subject.....Ciao

You sound like some bitter loser who never had to work hard to get to where you wanted to be. I worked the Ramp for 3 years, 2 of those years while getting my licence. Then worked as an Instructor for another 2 years after, before landed my first FO job. Now I'm a Captain and can sleep great at night knowing that I didn't cut any corners to get to where I am. I feel that all the operational experience I learned through that 5 years helped me make better decisions while flying and deciding what my next step will be. Landing your first flying job as a Navajo FO ain't too chabby. Especially when your making good coin.

[Brown Bear]

You sound like some bitter loser who never had to work hard to get to where you wanted to be.

HOW would that make me a loser?? Bitter, or otherwise?
I'm a loser because I DIDN'T slave for three years on a ramp? Do you even HAVE a brain? If it took you 5 years to gain enough "operational experience" to get a right seat in a 'ho, I'm guessing, no.

[boeingboy]

Rough translation......just another cheap skate operation getting cheap labour, using the old "dangling carrot" method of sucking in low time pilots. Always thought slave labour went out after the American Civil War?
And, still the dumb pilots line up.

You obviously have NO idea what your talking about.

[altiplano]

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[Brown Bear]

HEHE...guess I've stirred it up enough on this subject? BTW, I so do, have a clue.
Ciao

[EPR]

Brown Bear,
Name just one company that will put a newly minted ,off the street, commercial pilot in the right seat of their twin turboprop. Walking into a single piston pounder job is still possible, but if the FNG wants to skip the single and get into the multi-turbine two crew enviorment, then the only way is to work the ramp/dock for the operator prior to your check out. Your living in denial if you think that will ever change.

[ScudRunner]

I really got to stick up for Sunwest on this one, the rampies their are amazing and do great job. Pilots there load their own planes and rampies will help if you ask but are usually right there to give you a hand.

I can't really think of a company where you can start out towing planes and then fly Navajo, Caravans Metros, then on to 1900D, King Airs, Citations, Lear's, Sovereign, Hawkers, Challengers, Falcons, G150 you get to live in Calgary wich is a little easier to convince your significant other for a move than say Inuvik, You will miss out on the fun flying up north but not a bad way to go.

Dont be too hard on Brown Bear he is a bears fan after all.

[Brown Bear]

Brown Bear,
Name just one company that will put a newly minted ,off the street, commercial pilot in the right seat of their twin turboprop. Walking into a single piston pounder job is still possible, but if the FNG wants to skip the single and get into the multi-turbine two crew enviorment, then the only way is to work the ramp/dock for the operator prior to your check out. Your living in denial if you think that will ever change.

I'll field that one......JAZZ! Right out of Seneca into the right seat of a JET!
Your turn.

[iflyforpie]

Brown bear you beat me to it.

One lucky person from Selkirk College gets a Jazz position each year. Also I know a couple people who have gone straight to right seat on turboprops and jets in corporate.

Still not the best way to go though. Upgrades are far away and if you are corporate and only doing 2-300 hours a year sitting next to a captain who plans on retiring there, you might be F/O for life.


As always in aviation, your results may vary... Dock and ramp can be a way to leverage your experience to the next level (ie, no flying/pay now for much more later), but caveat emptor...

[av8tor_assrope]

EPR,

I can name quite a few that will stick a fresh guy in the right seat of multi turbine if you care to PM me. In fact the best compnay I ever worked for stuck me right seat in a twotter with a bare commercial...no ramp time. I was actually working the ramp/dispatch for another company when I was hired on.

It's possible...and why shouldn't it be? You hold a commercial licence after all.

Your attitude sucks...smartin' Up!

Cheers

AA

[dannyjet]

I know many started out similar to me - got into this business with zero connections, no internet job ads and very little options available to break in and get some experience.
Sure do the road trip, pound the pavement, the telephone, try try try - but in the end very few will succeed with a quick seat...

Hah, that's exactly my situation given the fact that I just moved here. And trust me, I still wouldn't take ANY job. I'm waiting for my first gig, and if I had an instructor rating, I wouldn't take that CFC job for example. But I would accept Sunwest's ad for ramp, I think it's a good deal and it lays down a good path. I would obviously ask some key questions before.

altiplano: Viva Chile

[pw308]

I'm not saying I would take the first job that came at me. And I never said that those direct entry flight positions don't exist. I simply wanted to enquire about sunwest and their job ads, and if they had an internal progression to the flight line. They seem like a reputable company. Thanks everyone for the relevant info.

[brokenwing]

Telling people they are "ok" because they have a CPL (not like 2500 other people dont) and its ok to be "self deserving" and not have to show somebody that they have any work ethic or are compatible with said company or that they are worthwhile employing whatsoever... is retarded.. what is wrong with new people?.... if you want a job with me. show up willing to throw a bag, swing a hammer or at least show me you're worth the investment i put into you.... Keep your word too.


edit by Lil to remove reference to deleted posts and some profanity

[4hrstovegas]

Timing, people. You might have lucked into a direct job, you might not have. 4 years ago vs. now are two totally different games.

[EPR]

I'll field that one......JAZZ! Right out of Seneca into the right seat of a JET!
Your turn.

BB get's 3 points for a field goal...Yes ,that's the only one that I know of and how many have done that?...maybe 2 or 3 in the last 2 years...and it's the only time they have done that. Do you expect all of the wannabe's to wait in that line forever?

av8tor_assrope
If you don't wan't to reveal ,to the people who you think shouldn't have to work a ramp job,
the companies that hire "off the street" direct right seat Multi-Turbine...then don't waste our time.

Sorry about that .. ..

[ScudRunner]

how did i get credited for that quote?

[Brown Bear]

Funny thing, how a pilot being hired as a pilot is referred as "hired direct", where in ANY other industry, a person is hired to do, what that person was actually TRAINED to do.
And, what's even stranger......you folks are totally willing to consider this "normal".

Nose picker wanted.
Must be willing to scratch ass for a year, to learn the "system".
Experienced nose pickers, with recent nose picking experience will be considered for "direct hire" positions as nose pickers.
This, may however, cause hard feelings among the ass scratchers, who may feel they are entitled to the few coveted nose picking positions.

[Bushed]

Any idiot can get a pilot's license and and I think we have all flown with one or two, so if it was your airplane would you not want to know that the person you hired straight out of flight school (and not long out of dipers) had the brains to treat your aircraft and your customers with common sense and not get anyone killed or sued.