Tail Dragger advice...

[kenco]

Hello,

I'm going to get checked out on a tail-dragger starting today. (Cessna 170)

Any advice?

Thanks,
Ken.

[Bushav8er]

Fly the plane, use your feet, have fun.

[Jungle Jim]

Keep it straight!

Jim

[HS-748 2A]

I never flew a nose wheeled airplane untill I was almost licensed. I remember feeling like I must have borrowed my little sister's car..

You're heart'll be broken next time you drive a 172 or a 150...

Careful on bounce-recovery with spring steel Cessna gear'd tail draggers. Fly them all the way to the runway, particularilly on pavement.

[tons-o-fun]

Best advice i ever got was from ag spray drivers. "make it look good out the window" close to the ground forget about looking in the cockpit all you need to know is through your ass and out the window.

[Ag Driver]

How are the dance lessons coming along?

[AEROBAT]

Fly it until you are tied down! I have landed in crazy cross winds and, once down and stopped, almost get blown over by not paying attention when blasting the tail around to back track. Think wind direction all the time, especialy with a high wing like the 170. You are going to love taildraggers

[l_reason]

If your paying for lessons in a tail dragger keep in mind that once the plane is in the air everything is the same as the other planes you've flown. Time on the ground is far more valuable. A good exercise to practice is weaving left and right down the runway, first really slow (5 kts), then faster until your almost at flying speed with the tail in the air. Maybe 1400-1800 rpm depending on the plane. You should be able to drive around the lines on the runway, like doing a slalom in a car. With a bit of practice you should be able to land ON the numbers, 2 or 3 point, clean up and drive all the way down the runway moving left right left... then take off. Ideally practicing in light winds, then 10-15 kts playing with crosswinds from both sides.

Have fun, ask your instructor to demonstrate, and if you hear "I have control" don't fight for it.

Enjoy!!

[cgzro]

Nothing magic really but the main points would go something like this.

Elevator stays full back during start/taxi runup. Never let the elevator go with any kind of power on on the ground or you could be on your no$e. Strong tail wind could be exception but depends on weight on the tail wheel etc. Very careful during runup NEVER let go.

Watch the heavy breaking ( basically don't) , you could easily nose over, taxi speed == walking speed.
Watch out for potholes or anything that can stop one of your wheels like a stray chock, could easily cause a no$e over.

Aileron into the wind, and slight opposite rudder, power up progressively with a bit of forward stick to get the tail up, fly away tail low, probably on one wheel into the wind, tiny bit of opposite rudder to keep tracking straight, + or - what you need to compensate for the P-factor/Gyroscopic/Slipstream as the tail comes up. Once airborne, same as nose gear of course except less drag, remember to center the ball after you gear is free of the ground, its easy to forget and keep things crossed for a few seconds and you really need to lower the drag required for cross controlling in an X-wind take-off more or less immediately.

Landing, drop a wing slightly into the wind, keep fuse lined up with runway with opposite rudder. Keep those inputs more or less right into the flair, if you get blown, aileron into it and instinctively add some opposite rudder. Keep pulling back on elevator till she neetly drops onto the upwind main and tail wheel more or less at the same time for a few inches. Look outside, no point looking at anything except runway edges or far end of runway if you can see it over the nose. If you bounce any more than a few inches, power up and go around. Once it stalls and the tail is on the ground, hopefully at same times as upwind main(s) elevator fully back and keep it there untill you stop the engine, even then after you stop and tie down the elevator should probably be full aft with the seat belt. Slow down without break if possible, but if you need breaks go easy on them and don't try to turn off the runway at more than a walking pace.


Hope that helps,

Peter (lots of TD time, never damaged one .. .... yet)

[kenco]

Well, 3.3 hours in. One word. Humbled.

Takeoffs:
Well, I haven't used the full width of the runway......yet

Landings:
Three point- Not too bad. Obviously needs work / practice
Two wheel - My 2.5 year old daughter is always singing "People on the bus go up and down" That sums two wheel landings. or my instructor saying "Yea we did 8 circuits today and only had 16 TO / landings"

I am glad I'm doing this though. It really shows how little I know about flying (i.e. stick and rudder skills). I know I'll be a better pilot once I get the hang of it.

And it's a Fook'N blast!

Thanks,
Ken.

[cgzro]

r.e. 2 wheel landings and bouncing. Try touching one wheel just a little bit before the other and you can minimize the tendency to bounce and give yourself that extra bit of time you need to check the stick forward. That works especially well in a cross wind.

Lowering the tire pressure helps too.

Peter

[l_reason]

Along with what cgzro said about touching one tire before the other you should have a really good idea about whats going on. When your about to touch down in the 2 point configuration. the goal is to have your vertical speed as low as possible. The C of G on a tail dragger is behind the main gear by design. So if you have any vertical speed at all when you touch the tail has a tendency to continue moving downward when the main gear makes contact. When the tail moves down your angle of attack increases at about the same time the suspension starts to rebound. There is another factor to consider, as the tires touch the ground and spool up they cause some drag. That drag counteracts some of the "down going tail" problem. Remember as you enter the flair and your speed is decaying you will be holding back pressure on the wheel (or stick). You have to release the back pressure as soon as you feel the first touch. It is possible (although not recommended for a beginner) to completely let go of the controls (not rudder peddles) just as you touch. The plane will roll down the runway with the tail in the air until speed bleeds off and it comes down with no input at all.

[CE-750Driver]

The 170 has way too good of a view, throws me out. I learned on a Stearman and couldn't see anything until the tail was up. In the 170, you can see over the nose in the 3 point attitude. Tailup, it looks like you are about to kiss the runway....

For the Take Off, they are much better when you remeber to look at the far end of the runway. I have had a Student in a Stearman with 'questionable' gear that did use the full width of the runway, and I was applying the brake to keep us on the runway 'cause the rudder was to the floor.

The three point landings are simple enough, get it in the right attitude and she settles on nicely. Make sure you are touching down straight, of course.

The gear on that plane does seem to be 'bouncy'! Fly it on gently, then check forward. The nose sure does seem to be 'way down' to keep it on. As the speed comes down, lower the tail and hold the control column back. Simple stuff, when it all comes together...

Was fun flying with you, I am sure my dad will cover anything I missed!

Gord

[Hvd2Pilot]

You have to release the back pressure as soon as you feel the first touch. It is possible (although not recommended for a beginner) to completely let go of the controls (not rudder peddles) just as you touch.

Trim nose down on long final instead. Same effect, but a whole lot safer.

Also, don't "let" the tail come down. Fly it down. ie. when it starts to come down on its own, move the stick foward slightly to slow the tail's descent. When the wheel is on the ground, stick in the crotch. This will save your tailwheel.

I don't know about the 170, but the Harvard's wing will want to fly again (in a crosswind scenario) as you bring the tail down. This is because the wings angle of attack is changing. Ask your checkout pilot about this so you are thinking about this while bringing the tail down.

I can relate with your checkout. I am getting checked out on a Yak 52 with a nosewheel (I have had about 4 landing prior experience with a nosewheel) - yoinks!

Have fun!

[kenco]

Hey Gord!

Thanks! It was a lot of fun.

I'll try and lose the "death grip" on the controls and try not to give your dad any more grey hair.

Hopefully by the time you get back I'll have a few more hours (with one touchdown per landing) under my belt.


Fly safe.

J.

To all:

Thanks for the all the tips/ stories etc....