Just want to survey some pragmatic suggestions for approach briefings. For now, while I'm training for an IFR rating, I try to do them while I have free time traveling to the airport I am going too after I have an approach clearance. Is this a good time to get it done?

What do you think is the best brief? I've been going?

1) Approach plate: verify it is the correct one and check warnings at top left
2) Minimum altitudes and MAP. I verbalize the altitudes I'll be using in the order I'd used them. So SAFE, MSA, Procedure Turn, FAF, MDA or DA then the MAP time or distance. Then I verbalized the distance out for the procedure turn.
3) Overshoot procedure.
4) Tune: the FAF and test it. Any overshoot NAVAIDS and test them. Any other aids like localizer and test them. Then make sure ATIS or Tower or next frequency is on standby.

Does that seem good? Is this what people are doing? Do you try to get done before you're beacon outbound?

Thanks for the help.

Weather: What is the weather/winds? How is going to affect you. Do you have to apply cold weather corrections?
Runway: What runway are you using, are you circling, what is the condition/distance? Do you have plenty of room to stop?
Also, mention different speeds and any timings you may have.
Altimeter: Do you have the current altimeter? Is it a remote setting?

Inbound/outbound tracks, what must your CDI be set to? What kind of transition are you doing? Is it an arc, is it a procedure turn, or is it a straight in.

There are several techniques to do a complete approach brief, some are in the from of working from top to bottom of the plate and mentioning all these things others are in the form of acronyms.

Edit: Or whatever the guy above me said, that works too. Probably better actually.

As soon as I know what approach I can expect, its briefed. Best time to brief is when the workload is low. The goal is to be ahead of the airplane. If it done beacon outbound you're already behind. Typically I have it done prior to my Top of Descent.

Remember do not get verbal diherea for your briefing! This is common. TC seems us to want to say more, I think less is more in this case.

First - Look over the plate, tune, ident etc what you need so everything is all setup. Kinda like a flow

Second - Brief.

This is the briefing I would give for the ILS/DME 08R into Vancouver:

We will do ILS/DEM 08R for Vancouver. We are expecting vectors. Loc and G/S are 109.5 tuned idented with an inbound 081, missed has 115.9 for the Vancouver VOR back up. Sea Island beacon is 368 tuned and idented. Following glide slope intercept followed down to 1290 at Tavpi, 4DME. Minimums are 209, 200 on the Rad Alt, missed is climb on a heading of 112 to 2000 right turn direct the Vancouver VORTAC at 2000. (Coffin corner if there is one, none in this case). Special considerations today is the runway is wet and we have a 15 knot crosswind from the south. Vref will be 105, I am planning a 12/30 exit.

Do I care about a LOC/DME? Or circling? No. If I am sliding down the G/S and it goes away I will go missed and start again. KISS.

I read the one referenced on the TC website. WAY too long. Flaps? For what you are flying I will assume that all landings will be full flaps and there speeds do not change. Weight? Who cares it determines your Vref just give me that. And so on. IMHO I do no need to know how you are going to pick your nose between IF and the FAF if you get my drift.

AMORTS for me

Appch plate current
Minimum alts (high to low)
Overshoot proc
Radios/Radials
Timing from FAF to MAP or DME, etc
Special (remote alt, warnings, restrictions, etc)

Tim wrote:AMORTS for me

Appch plate current
Minimum alts (high to low)
Overshoot proc
Radios/Radials
Timing from FAF to MAP or DME, etc
Special (remote alt, warnings, restrictions, etc)

That briefing is "ridicilously" looooong.. keep it short.

767 wrote:

Tim wrote:AMORTS for me

Appch plate current
Minimum alts (high to low)
Overshoot proc
Radios/Radials
Timing from FAF to MAP or DME, etc
Special (remote alt, warnings, restrictions, etc)

That briefing is "ridicilously" looooong.. keep it short.

sarcasm doesn't suit you...neither does spelling.

Thanks folks, I've added a few of these ideas into what I've been doing.

"This airplane, that runway, any questions?"

Pratt X 3 wrote:"This airplane, that runway, any questions?"

Best one I've seen in a while.

Seriously though. Brief for the missed. Really brief for it. Flight test missed...max power. Real world missed should be planned and executed in such a manner, the pax don't even know you've missed.
Get a "in the event of a missed" approach clearance before commencing an approach that has any chance of becoming a "missed". Again, this is more "real world" than training.
Long briefings are a total and bloody waste of time. I just check the date on the plate, mins, and instruct the PNF to give me next headings and altitudes as they are needed, call deviations......basically "vector" me through the approach. Again, this is "real world" and not training.....but I've met very few pilots who can remember all crap on a "normal" briefing. I keep it to a grade 3 level (kind of like the Winnipeg Sun) and it really works.

good points doc, but might not apply to people that are doing single pilot IFR

Doc wrote:I just check the date on the plate

I never understood why this is done. The only thing I can think of is if you fly that approach all the time and they make changes, but are you really going to remember the previous effective date...

Doc wrote:
Get a "in the event of a missed" approach clearance before commencing an approach that has any chance of becoming a "missed".

My favourite has always been, "We are going to fly this missed approach with the option to land".

Boozy

I gather you are in the process of getting your MEIFR rating. This unfortunately means you have follow the FTU silliness about briefings. When you finish your rating and are out in the real world here are a few things to think about with respect to breifings.

1) I think you should purge your mind of all of the FTU ditties like AMORTS, WXCAP etc. These one size fits all encourage the mindless spouting of items relevant or not.

2) Schools are great at teaching you what to do/say in a cook book fashion but IMO much less successfull of articulating why you do/say things. So why brief at all ? Well a really good reason is so the PNF knows what you are going to do. That way if the flightpath/configuration/speed varies from what you said he will speak up. The second reason is it is a chance to bring to the front of your mind the things that will kill you if you get it wrong like the DH.

3) Flight School beifings tend to treat every bit of information as equally important. So for instances the third leg of the missed approach gets the same amount of time in the brief as the DH, which IMO greatly reduces their practical value.

4) Approach briefings can not exist in isolation. They must be part of a well understood and codified set of SOP's. That way instead of breifing every single tiny detail everytime you and the other pilot only need to brief deviations from thet SOP.

5) The approach briefing has to reflect the actual conditons and so if fuel is tight and the wx crappy the approach briefing is going to start with how we are going to deal with the issues (eg CB's Icing etc) between here and the start of the actual approach and what the plan is if we miss. If conditions are benign than the approach briefing
will be pretty short.

6) OK thats fine for 2 pilot ops but what about single pilot. First of all the human mind can only retain three numbers at a time. So you need to pick the numbers you must not forget and as for the rest well you presumably allready know where you are going so I fail the see the need for a lengthly recitation of the approach.

So here is what I would say for an approach on a OK day (say 800 OVC and 3 Miles, no precip or siginicant icing or CB's)

"I am Expecting vectors to the ILS runway XX, standard profile, Vref is XXX knots,DH is XXX feet, missed is runway heading to XXXX feet, questions?"

That would be the minimum and I would add any extra details relevant to the particular situations that effect that appraoch.

+1 on keeping it short.

AMORTAGS, etc...is really overzealous and includes so much information that the key stuff is liable to be forgotten.

A good basic brief would include:

Approach being briefed, Elevation (or TDZE), Page, Effective Date (I'll explain why FlaplessDork), Procedure turn altitude, Step Downs or GP crossing height over the FAF, DH, Missed approach. After the basics I add any abnormal factors that need to be considered (ie: low CRFI, etc.)...but only if necessary.

The whole deal should be short, clean, and easily understood. As well - if you're multi crew, your entire operation should use the same basic briefing so everybody knows what to expect. As BPF very rightly put, briefings are part of a larger "SOP" - which really is the critical factor.

The chart date is very important to ensure that all crewmembers are working with the same data.

I brief as soon as I know which approach to expect, usually prior to TOD, or sometimes just after and on the way down. Pass control for the brief if possible. Navaids should be tuned and identified as soon as able - either prior to the brief if possible, or shortly after - at which time the HSI or applicable navaid should be set. Suicide switches (rabbit ears) on the RMI (if equipped) should be confirmed when identifying any NDB.

I've found it a good practice to never complete a descent-approach checklist without having all relevant navaids tuned and identified, and the approach brief completed. In an emergency, it's easy to forget to brief the approach. This little reminder has saved me much grief come sim time...not to mention when it really counts.

I don't fly single pilot IFR - but I agree with BPF completely on what he said regarding simplicity.

Question to all, Being a newbie single pilot IFR certified 172 driver I was taught the amorts method, I still use this method to reinforce when flying IFR what the heck I am about to do! Oh by the way there is no way I am going to mins on any approach for the next oh say 100 hrs as I do not feel completely comfortable with this, perhaps with a seasoned IFR veteran sitting beside me but for now it is marginal VFR! I thought it was our responsibility to ensure current charts prior to flight? So I never understood effective date issue, If I am missing something would love to be clarified as to why.
Thanks

aircraftnut1966 wrote:Question to all, Being a newbie single pilot IFR certified 172 driver I was taught the amorts method, I still use this method to reinforce when flying IFR what the heck I am about to do! Oh by the way there is no way I am going to mins on any approach for the next oh say 100 hrs as I do not feel completely comfortable with this, perhaps with a seasoned IFR veteran sitting beside me but for now it is marginal VFR! I thought it was our responsibility to ensure current charts prior to flight? So I never understood effective date issue, If I am missing something would love to be clarified as to why.
Thanks

My problem with AMORTS (and all the rest of the acronyms) especially for single pilot IFR, is I usually hear a blizzard of numbers and data points delivered in a breathless rush as the pilot is busy flying the aircraft. I have to wonder after the briefing has the pilot memorized every altitude bearing and course for the approach.
I am guessing not, so why rattle off a string of numbers you will forget in 30 seconds. When I fly single pilot I review the approach chart and build a mental picture of how I am going to fly the aproach and then isolated the "killer" numbers like obstacle based step down fixes and the DH, and the heading/course for the first leg of the missed. Those are the numbers I make a point of briefing to myself

My briefing goes like this:

"This will be the SALT approach. Any Questions?"

SALT meaning Same As Last Time

Here's one. I just thought it up.

"If we can't land, I'll slam full power and go up. Then I'll look at the approach plate and say, 'Oh yeah, we gotta go there.'"

Not the safest, and you'll fail the test, but I'd bet it's realistic.

-istp

ILS/DME... in the interest of saving time and fuel, as well as pax comfort.... always take your time over the beacon, therefore if your g/s fails you can still make the non-precision approach with Loc and MDA, there is never a reason not to have a backup.

Also, AMORTS for me.

LDW25 wrote:ILS/DME... in the interest of saving time and fuel, as well as pax comfort.... always take your time over the beacon, therefore if your g/s fails you can still make the non-precision approach with Loc and MDA, there is never a reason not to have a backup.

Also, AMORTS for me.

I tell all my students to fly the approach briefed. If the glideslope fails than IMO you should go around and set up from the beginning for the LOC or some other approach. If I was flying and the GS suddenly went away the first thing I would ask is "is it the approach aid or has something in the aircraft failed, and is this the first indication of bigger electrical/electronic failures". In any case trying to troubleshoot a problem while flying the approach is I would suggest a poor idea. BTW the only time I have had a GS fail on the approach (in 23 yrs of IFR flying) it was a problem with the instrument in the airplane (it failed with the GS needle full down and no flags) The radio shop who repaired the instrument also said the LOC was giving intermitant false readings as well. The business of timing the ILS "so if the GS fails you can complete the approach" is an FTU ism which IMO should go away

FlaplessDork wrote:

Doc wrote:I just check the date on the plate

I never understood why this is done. The only thing I can think of is if you fly that approach all the time and they make changes, but are you really going to remember the previous effective date...

It is a good way to make sure that Pilot and copilot are on the same page. If one has an outdated CAP it will immidiately become evident. Thats about all I could think of.

Big Pistons Forever wrote: The business of timing the ILS "so if the GS fails you can complete the approach" is an FTU ism which IMO should go away

I will be renewing my IFR soon. I remember when i was training back in the day, my instructor would intentionally fail the glide slope on the approach. I had 2 options. Option 1 was to go around. Option 2 was to continue the approach (LOC or NDB, whichever was applicable). If I got confused in the process of making a decision, i would go around. If I had "preplanned" what to do in the event GS fails, in this case LOC approach, i would continue the LOC/NDB approach as applicable. I dont see anything wrong with transitioning from precision to non precision, in the situation described above.

767 wrote:

Big Pistons Forever wrote: The business of timing the ILS "so if the GS fails you can complete the approach" is an FTU ism which IMO should go away

I will be renewing my IFR soon. I remember when i was training back in the day, my instructor would intentionally fail the glide slope on the approach. I had 2 options. Option 1 was to go around. Option 2 was to continue the approach (LOC or NDB, whichever was applicable). If I got confused in the process of making a decision, i would go around. If I had "preplanned" what to do in the event GS fails, in this case LOC approach, i would continue the LOC/NDB approach as applicable. I dont see anything wrong with transitioning from precision to non precision, in the situation described above.

There is a perfectly safe course of action in the very unlikely event the GS fails during the approach...Go Around ....and then set up a second fully briefed approach. This works every time. The time you wasted briefing for the once in a 10 or 20 year event of a GS failure ,would IMO always be better spent on flying the airplane, maintaining situational awareness, etc etc. It doesn't matter in the training environment because you are flying the same approach for the 56th time and so you can get away with wasting your time on an "FTU ism". This is not going to be the case when you are going into a strange airport at night in a snow storm.