The sky's the limit for first Saudi woman pilot
RIYADH (AFP) - In a country where women are not allowed to drive,
25-year-old Hanadi Hindi hopes to become the first to fly a plane of the
national carrier.
"My dream is to fly a plane of Saudi Arabian Airlines. If this doesn't
happen, I'm pretty sure a Saudi private company will hire me," Hanadi told
AFP by telephone from her home in the Muslim holy city of Mecca.
Hanadi is not quite ready to sit in the cockpit of a Saudi Arabian Airlines
jumbo jet as yet.
At the moment, she only has a Private Pilot's License (PPL), which does not
allow her to fly for a job, although she can take to the skies "for fun," as
she put it.
But she says she is determined to go on to take a Commercial Pilot's License
and an Instrument Rating (CPL and IR) from the same school -- the Mideast
Aviation Academy in Jordan.
"I have become addicted to flying," she confesses.
Her father, Zakaria Hindi, a retired civil servant, is currently arranging
the financing of her costly pursuit. But judging from the fact that he was
the driving force behind her flying ambitions, the chances are that money
will not ground her.
"My father does not distinguish between boys and girls. He treats us in the
same way," said Hanadi, who has two brothers and four sisters.
"He himself had aspired to be a pilot, but could not realize his dream
because of financial constraints. So he encouraged me to become a pilot
myself, since I have always been inclined to study anything, and I felt I
had to make his wish come true," she said.
"Captain Hanadi," as she is already called, says she can understand the
thinking behind the ban on women's driving in conservative Saudi Arabia, but
argues that flying is different.
"When a woman drives a car, everyone sees her and she might be exposed to
unpleasant situations. But no one knows who's in the cockpit," she reasoned.
And she said she was perfectly comfortable wearing a headscarf under her
pilot's cap.
Hanadi said she had both her parents to thank for being the first Saudi
female pilot, as they were standing by her every step of the way, but was
also receiving invaluable support from prominent liberal lawyer and rights
activist Mohammad Saeed Tayyeb, who was "opening doors" for her.
Saudi Arabian Airlines has not approached Hanadi, but a private Saudi firm
has, she said.
"I want to serve my country by becoming a Saudi Arabian Airlines pilot. If
they don't take me, then I will go for a private company."
Did she think the national carrier would hire a woman?
"I don't know. But I'm optimistic."
Hanadi said the fact that she had been acknowledged as the first Saudi woman
pilot by the air force's Saqr al-Jazira Aviation Museum in Riyadh, where her
picture is on display, amounted to "semi-official recognition" by the
government.
She said she had also received support from the cultural attache at the
Saudi embassy in Amman when she went to enrol at the Jordanian academy in
September 2002, although he did not have to look after her, as she was a
private student.
Zakaria Hindi recalled it all began when he was sitting by the seafront with
his daughter as a plane buzzed overhead and she asked him what he was
thinking about.
"That I wish I were a pilot," he replied.
First Saudi Female Pilot
This sounds pretty dangerous to me. If she is an f/o, the captains will ignore her. If she makes captain, the f/os will not listen to her, and many may make a point of contradicting her all the time.
Good for her but i hope she gets on with a European or North American carrier.
ahramin
Good for her but i hope she gets on with a European or North American carrier.
ahramin
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shitdisturber
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Re: First Saudi Female Pilot
Since she's an admitted addict, some whacko Imam will probably order her killed.N8 wrote:
"I have become addicted to flying," she confesses.
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corn-shoot
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I say bring her over here, and send one of our boys over there. I bet she'd have more heart than a lot of of the guys around here:
Hey where's my job? I sent my resume, it said "K'I've A job" what gives?
When's this inudstry going to pick up, no one's knocking on MY door? How come there aren't any turbine jobs in Southern Ontario?
Yes we could take this individual, and send over a white infidel devil from Seneca, or something. Sign her up!
PS.
Is she hot?
Hey where's my job? I sent my resume, it said "K'I've A job" what gives?
When's this inudstry going to pick up, no one's knocking on MY door? How come there aren't any turbine jobs in Southern Ontario?
Yes we could take this individual, and send over a white infidel devil from Seneca, or something. Sign her up!
PS.
Is she hot?
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corn-shoot
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Aiyaayayayayaya!
Last edited by corn-shoot on Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Cat Driver
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Did you know that when the pilots in Islamic countries finish transmissions on the radio they end with insh-allah.....
Like you will hear them reading back a clearance...... Saudi 999 is cleared to..... and at the end insh-allah...
The last Aribic flight we heard on Cario Center just before we changed to Athens center was an Air Egypt flight estimating xxxx intersection at 47 ..Insh-allah.
Iv'e often wondered if allah was willing to see them safely to their last estimate...oh the wonder of foreign flying.....
Cat
Like you will hear them reading back a clearance...... Saudi 999 is cleared to..... and at the end insh-allah...
The last Aribic flight we heard on Cario Center just before we changed to Athens center was an Air Egypt flight estimating xxxx intersection at 47 ..Insh-allah.
Iv'e often wondered if allah was willing to see them safely to their last estimate...oh the wonder of foreign flying.....
Cat
Last edited by Cat Driver on Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Now thats scary. Gods will indeed. I can see the accident report now:
Summary
The aircraft was not preflighted, and the fuel quantity was not checked. The weather at the destination was below minimums but the crew elected to attempt an NDB circling approach for runway XX. There were tall mountains on the west side and circling was prohibited but the captain did not want to turn east as that would have pointed the cockpit towards mecca while the landing gear was extending. At this point the GPWS warning came on but was disregarded. Six seconds later the aircraft impacted the top of a 2000 foot hill.
Findings as to Causes and Contributing Factors
Insh Allah.
Summary
The aircraft was not preflighted, and the fuel quantity was not checked. The weather at the destination was below minimums but the crew elected to attempt an NDB circling approach for runway XX. There were tall mountains on the west side and circling was prohibited but the captain did not want to turn east as that would have pointed the cockpit towards mecca while the landing gear was extending. At this point the GPWS warning came on but was disregarded. Six seconds later the aircraft impacted the top of a 2000 foot hill.
Findings as to Causes and Contributing Factors
Insh Allah.
Re: First Saudi Female Pilot
N8 wrote:The sky's the limit for first Saudi woman pilot
And she said she was perfectly comfortable wearing a headscarf under her
pilot's cap.
Did she think the national carrier would hire a woman?
"I don't know. But I'm optimistic."
Can you imagine the freedom's we have in this side of the world where a woman becoming a pilot is as common as a disgruntled Air Canada employee??
Soon perhaps Quebec companies will hire pilots with ethnic last names and I think we are home free against anymore discrimination!!! Amen.....ah I mean ALAH!!!
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shitdisturber
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Panama Jack
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ahramin wrote:Now thats scary. Gods will indeed. I can see the accident report now:
Summary
The aircraft was not preflighted, and the fuel quantity was not checked. The weather at the destination was below minimums but the crew elected to attempt an NDB circling approach for runway XX. There were tall mountains on the west side and circling was prohibited but the captain did not want to turn east as that would have pointed the cockpit towards mecca while the landing gear was extending. At this point the GPWS warning came on but was disregarded. Six seconds later the aircraft impacted the top of a 2000 foot hill.
Findings as to Causes and Contributing Factors
Insh Allah.
Hmmm, sounds a lot like reports I've read of accidents also in Canada. So what is your point ahramin? Are you denying that we have bad pilots with dangerous attitudes and a complete lack of professionalism in Canada?
Nice to see that racism and stereotyping is alive and well on this forum. I see a lot of moronic comments (not from all contributors, but enough)
I also read an article about this lady a few months ago. It wouldn't surprise me that in a few years she will be able to work as a pilot, for whatever company she chooses, in Saudi Arabia. Things are progressing at a dramatic pace in that part of the world-- ironically, there is no evidence of the same in North America.
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Panama Jack
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There used to be a time, not too long ago either, when being male did not mean anything either as far as Captains ignoring their FO's. It still happens enough on different flight decks in different parts of the world. A major change in attitudes, was brought about when a United DC-8 crashed due to fuel starvation in Portland, Oregon and, as a result, we learned to change attitutes about what crew coordination is all about. It's called CRM. On a larger scale, constantly changing attitudes is what life and progress are all about.ahramin wrote:This sounds pretty dangerous to me. If she is an f/o, the captains will ignore her.
Hey Jack:
I don't recall saying that pilots in this country were any good. If i did then please show me where.
You ask me what the point was. If you do not get the point, why do you then make assumptions about it? You are quite right that this accident sounds like something in Canada. Where do you think i got it from? Hint: I can read English but not Arabic. The point lies in the difference between how an accident report here would normally read and how this one reads. Can you spot the difference? Permit me to explain for you sir:
The pilots do a whole bunch of things wrong, just like many accidents here there or anywhere in the world. The difference is in the next bit, where the report reads Findings as to Causes and Contributing Factors. At this point a TSB report would outline why it thought the crash happened, but in the one i wrote above, they do not. This was a pun on the fact that whenever anything happens over there, the prescribed response is Insh Allah. The reason for this accident is God's Will.
Perhaps you have never had any exposure to this culture and have no idea how ingrained is the idea that everything that happens is directly God's Will. If this is the case then i can hardly blame you for not understanding the joke.
However i would plead with you sir to be a little more polite and not call people racist and moronic because they write something that you do not understand or agree with. Surely we can express an opinion or make a joke here without fearing personal attacks because of it.
And yes it is possible that she gets hired by a saudi outfit. Unless of course she commits adultery between now and then. In which case she will be tied to a pole and people will throw rocks at her for an hour or so until she is dead. No penalty for the man involved though. Yes there is a great deal of progress going on in this part of the world. So much so that female circumcision is becoming more popular, not less.
And before you jump up and say that this problem is growing in the US as well allow me to pre-emptively point out that that does not make it a good thing.
We are talking about a country where women are the property of thier husband or father. Who have no say even in the clothes they wear. There hopefully will be some captains there who will be able to let Hanadi be a part of the crew. But if you think that CRM courses will convince most let alone all of them to listen to a woman i must humbly disagree.
ahramin
I don't recall saying that pilots in this country were any good. If i did then please show me where.
You ask me what the point was. If you do not get the point, why do you then make assumptions about it? You are quite right that this accident sounds like something in Canada. Where do you think i got it from? Hint: I can read English but not Arabic. The point lies in the difference between how an accident report here would normally read and how this one reads. Can you spot the difference? Permit me to explain for you sir:
The pilots do a whole bunch of things wrong, just like many accidents here there or anywhere in the world. The difference is in the next bit, where the report reads Findings as to Causes and Contributing Factors. At this point a TSB report would outline why it thought the crash happened, but in the one i wrote above, they do not. This was a pun on the fact that whenever anything happens over there, the prescribed response is Insh Allah. The reason for this accident is God's Will.
Perhaps you have never had any exposure to this culture and have no idea how ingrained is the idea that everything that happens is directly God's Will. If this is the case then i can hardly blame you for not understanding the joke.
However i would plead with you sir to be a little more polite and not call people racist and moronic because they write something that you do not understand or agree with. Surely we can express an opinion or make a joke here without fearing personal attacks because of it.
And yes it is possible that she gets hired by a saudi outfit. Unless of course she commits adultery between now and then. In which case she will be tied to a pole and people will throw rocks at her for an hour or so until she is dead. No penalty for the man involved though. Yes there is a great deal of progress going on in this part of the world. So much so that female circumcision is becoming more popular, not less.
And before you jump up and say that this problem is growing in the US as well allow me to pre-emptively point out that that does not make it a good thing.
We are talking about a country where women are the property of thier husband or father. Who have no say even in the clothes they wear. There hopefully will be some captains there who will be able to let Hanadi be a part of the crew. But if you think that CRM courses will convince most let alone all of them to listen to a woman i must humbly disagree.
ahramin
Hey ahramin
I do find your post informative...you seem to be well versed and passionate in the affairs and culture of the Middle-East (Not Winnipeg)?
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=620
Are you from that culture and just fascinated with how dumb westeners are? If so, are you new to this country? Was there an adjustment to be made because we don't throw rocks at women for having an orgasm before men.
You wrote:
""Surely we can express an opinion or make a joke here without fearing personal attacks because of it. ""
With regards to such a sensitive issue as humiliating a weaker minority group, no you may not. And not in this context.
Your name is new. Panama Jack has been around for years. A little respect to the elders even though you may not agree with them.
However you can have a go at me if you wish. I'm not that clever and barely know my way around this site but I'll give it a try....(ie: I am weak. It's easy to throw stones at me)
I do find your post informative...you seem to be well versed and passionate in the affairs and culture of the Middle-East (Not Winnipeg)?
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=620
Are you from that culture and just fascinated with how dumb westeners are? If so, are you new to this country? Was there an adjustment to be made because we don't throw rocks at women for having an orgasm before men.
You wrote:
""Surely we can express an opinion or make a joke here without fearing personal attacks because of it. ""
With regards to such a sensitive issue as humiliating a weaker minority group, no you may not. And not in this context.
Your name is new. Panama Jack has been around for years. A little respect to the elders even though you may not agree with them.
However you can have a go at me if you wish. I'm not that clever and barely know my way around this site but I'll give it a try....(ie: I am weak. It's easy to throw stones at me)
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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Bird dog:
I think what Ahramin was alluding to is the cultural reasons that any Saudi woman will be accepted as a pilot with the Kingdom's Air line.
Women are forbidden to even drive a car and it is against their beliefes for a woman to address a man in public other than her husband or father.
Here is an example of their system, I had to go to an Eye specialist in Jeddah, it was in a very expensive clinic for the rich. The clinic is called El-Maghraby Eye and Ear Canter, I just happen to have the card handy to look it up.
Well anyhow an American eye specialist came form America to give a lecture to all the Jeddah eye specialists. The Doctor was sent back to America immediately because a woman can not lecture a group of men...hell they can't even speak to a strange man.
Therefore this Saudi woman has a very difficult mountain to climb to get into a Saudi Airliner as an FO.
What do you think would be the level of CRM with that culture in her case?
And no I am not a rasist.
Cat
I think what Ahramin was alluding to is the cultural reasons that any Saudi woman will be accepted as a pilot with the Kingdom's Air line.
Women are forbidden to even drive a car and it is against their beliefes for a woman to address a man in public other than her husband or father.
Here is an example of their system, I had to go to an Eye specialist in Jeddah, it was in a very expensive clinic for the rich. The clinic is called El-Maghraby Eye and Ear Canter, I just happen to have the card handy to look it up.
Well anyhow an American eye specialist came form America to give a lecture to all the Jeddah eye specialists. The Doctor was sent back to America immediately because a woman can not lecture a group of men...hell they can't even speak to a strange man.
Therefore this Saudi woman has a very difficult mountain to climb to get into a Saudi Airliner as an FO.
What do you think would be the level of CRM with that culture in her case?
And no I am not a rasist.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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shitdisturber
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Cat, you're not a speller either but I agree with you completely in this case. As long as the hard line Imams have such control over that region, things won't change. The cultural behaviours of women being chattel are deeply ingrained and aren't going to change any time soon. Anybody who thinks they've had a radical alteration in their mindset needs to take off their rose coloured glasses and see things as they are, not as they'd like them to be.
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Cat Driver
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S. D. :
Hey when a guy posts as often as I do I'm bound to make spelling mustakes.
Did you know that Saudi women do not have birth certificates, they are listed on the fathers record as being part of his property.....
One day in Dirkou Niger, a little oasis about five hundred miles east of Agadez I had offered a ride to Agadez to the head honcho of that group of Tuarag's in that area. I mater of facltly said, if you want to bring your wife there is lots of room....shit he almost went berserk and explained that he would take his camel because of its value but never his wife.
Its cultural and it ain't about to change......
Cat
Hey when a guy posts as often as I do I'm bound to make spelling mustakes.
Did you know that Saudi women do not have birth certificates, they are listed on the fathers record as being part of his property.....
One day in Dirkou Niger, a little oasis about five hundred miles east of Agadez I had offered a ride to Agadez to the head honcho of that group of Tuarag's in that area. I mater of facltly said, if you want to bring your wife there is lots of room....shit he almost went berserk and explained that he would take his camel because of its value but never his wife.
Its cultural and it ain't about to change......
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Birddog:
If it makes you guys feel better to think that i am a racist and stereotype people go right ahead. I was simply offerring up my opinion that we could be polite about it. However, as i fly cool planes and have a huge dick, i really could not care less if you do call me names or not. Was simply advocating politeness.
As for respecting someone because they are older or have been around longer: Whahahahahahaha. That will be the day. I do respect you guys. And most of the time value your opinions and thoughts. I take the time to discuss my disagreements with you because i respect you. But the day that i respect someone because he's the old guy and i'm the new guy is my last. Read up on the Korean Airlines Safety Audit.
http://www.pprune.org/go.php?go=/pub/tech/korean.html
I particularily like the part about the co-pilots listening to the flight engineer instead of the captain because the flight engineer is older.
ahramin
If it makes you guys feel better to think that i am a racist and stereotype people go right ahead. I was simply offerring up my opinion that we could be polite about it. However, as i fly cool planes and have a huge dick, i really could not care less if you do call me names or not. Was simply advocating politeness.
As for respecting someone because they are older or have been around longer: Whahahahahahaha. That will be the day. I do respect you guys. And most of the time value your opinions and thoughts. I take the time to discuss my disagreements with you because i respect you. But the day that i respect someone because he's the old guy and i'm the new guy is my last. Read up on the Korean Airlines Safety Audit.
http://www.pprune.org/go.php?go=/pub/tech/korean.html
I particularily like the part about the co-pilots listening to the flight engineer instead of the captain because the flight engineer is older.
ahramin
huge dick???ahramin wrote:Birddog:
However, as i fly cool planes and have a huge dick, i really could not care less if you do call me names or not. Was simply advocating politeness.
..call you names..wtf
I didn't call you any names, however, if you wanna advocate politness, tell your towel wearing buddies next time they hijack an airplane to plow it into the sand pile they came from.
(this is gonna get me banned)
You just don't get it...and you never will.ahramin wrote: As for respecting someone because they are older or have been around longer: Whahahahahahaha. That will be the day. But the day that i respect someone because he's the old guy and i'm the new guy is my last. Read up on the Korean Airlines Safety Audit.
ahramin
Last edited by ... on Wed Mar 10, 2004 4:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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just another pilot
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shitdisturber
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