Hi Forum:

Looking for a flight school that offers a full-time professional pilot program where I can get my PPL, CPL, and night, instrument, and multi-engine ratings. I'm flexible in terms of locations within Canada, but would prefer somewhere either in Ontario or Quebec. Also, I'm not necessarily looking for any diploma or certificate that requires me to take extra courses other than the required ground school components.

I'm currently pursuing my PPL with Toronto Airways flying out of CYKZ, but it's hard to reserve a plane and an instructor over a repeating period due to the shear number of students and pilots that fly out of there.

I looked at some flight schools like Waterloo Wellington and unfortunately they only start their program in September each year and I'd be looking to start ASAP or in the near future.

Please note that some schools (such as TAL@Buttonville and AeroAcademy@London) advertise "Professional Pilot" programs as full-time, but when I call in they say that it is no different from simply pursuing each license separately & ground school at a leisurely pace, and they do not offer priority bookings for aircraft rental and instructors.

Please help with any suggestions you may have or school you know of! PM me or just reply to this thread. Thanks!

P.S. Kindly do not post any URLs to a list of flight schools that simply link to their respective websites (unless you have a comprehensive comparison table for each flight school - that would be awesome). Oh, and if you know of any schools down south that are within the same price range and offer jet time that would be really interesting to know about too.

I think these professional programs are a waste of time, the piece of paper they give you when you are done aren't even worth being used as toilet paper. Don't get pulled into their propaganda.

If you fell like you need secondary education just go out and get a degree in something you may want to do in case you need something to fall back on.

If you do insist in the "professional" program, stay in Ontario and go to Seneca, or whatever that other school is that gives you free training. Save yourself a lot of money.

Lurch

Myself im going to Cargair in Quebec.

They have 2 schools;

St-Hubert airport (Controlled) and there's alot of chinese. Cargair have a contract with them so they are training them there.

And Mascouche (Uncontrolled). Thats where i am. Local instructors and are there when you need them.


I went to ALM right next to cargair at mascouche and didnt like the "Aeroclub" Style. Im there to follow a course to have my PPL and not make a party with a BBQ outside. But its all up to you. You need to visit before investing in your career and be sure at 110% you want to go that branch of job ( Pilot ).

Their website are under construction: http://www.cargair.com/ but i would suggest that you contact them and ask for price ( like any other school ).

At the risk of sounding elitist I have a "real" degree, that is a 4 yr Bsc granted by a recognized University. The aviation programs give you a diploma or a super diploma, but in my opinion are not a true University Degree. Outside of aviation they are pretty much meaningless and inside of aviation they are a mixed blessing. They can be advantageous for some positons but many companies will bin any resume that notes the person has done their training at one of the "college" programs (the last Ice Pilots episode showed what Buffalo thought of aviation college graduates).

Big Pistons Forever wrote:At the risk of sounding elitist I have a "real" degree, that is a 4 yr Bsc granted by a recognized University.

Thats a good way of putting it BPF.



Lurch

Hey thanks a lot for your replies!

I actually have two bachelor degrees from the University of Waterloo and I'm just looking to fly somewhere on a full-time basis and hammer out a PPL and CPL with additional ratings. I guess the gist is I'd like to be part of a structured program that will guarantee those licenses after a predefined period of time. I emailed the CFI at London's Aero Academy about their Maple Leaf Program and I'll be sure to post his reply to this topic once he gets back to me.

Merci Cmkslivt pour les noms d’écoles à Québec! J’ai déjà contacté l’école à St. Hubert mais je pense qu’ils n’offrent pas des programmes professionnelles qui peuvent garantir l’acquisition des licences PPL et CPL dans une période d’environ 6 à 8 mois. J’appellerais Cargair quand j’aurais le temps. J’espère peut-être m’inscrire à une école en Québec car cela m’aidera à améliorer mon français.

Progressing with your license on your own time and dime will be more efficient and cost effective than entering a structured program, every time.

It's my opinion that it is a major mistake to enroll in a 'professional program' with the expectation that you will get a better quality learning experience than progressing independently. Learning takes time. There is no short cut or fast track from zero to competent pilot hero- it just takes a lot of time and a lot of effort. These professional pilot programs, in all their motivation to market a 'better' product, try to cram in even more information into what works out to be an equal or lesser schedule of time, and what turns out is that no topic is covered well, let alone to the same quality as you would see if study was pursued independently.

One of the lessons learned in flying is that nothing needs to be done at breakneck pace- 'slow is smooth and smooth is fast' goes a long way. It would be beneficial for you to research other options out there before committing excessive time and money into a misleading advertising ploy.

Blue Side Down wrote:'slow is smooth and smooth is fast' goes a long way. It would be beneficial for you to research other options out there before committing excessive time and money into a misleading advertising ploy.

I think you make a pretty strong point there, BSD. Thanks for your input. I guess I might as well just stick with TAL @ CYKZ since I'm pretty close to going solo and then wrapping up my PPL. Unless of course there is a better option.

Too bad airliners in Canada don't have training programs giving students jet time who commit to a contract to fly with them for a period of time (I'm thinking Emirates here).

Try Huron Flight Centre in Sarnia, Ontario. Small school but they have top notch instructors, 5-6 different types of planes, you can fly 2-3 times a day and the training is the best around, they teach you a lot more than just to pass the tests. Ask for Jason the CFI and tell him RED DOG 1 sent you, he'll take care of you.

PS- Stay away from London, I fly in there 2-3 times a week and it's nuts. Just check the forums on Avcanada about the schools there.

Lurch wrote:I think these professional programs are a waste of time, the piece of paper they give you when you are done aren't even worth being used as toilet paper. Don't get pulled into their propaganda.

If you fell like you need secondary education just go out and get a degree in something you may want to do in case you need something to fall back on.

If you do insist in the "professional" program, stay in Ontario and go to Seneca, or whatever that other school is that gives you free training. Save yourself a lot of money.

Lurch

+1

FlaplessDork wrote:

Lurch wrote:I think these professional programs are a waste of time, the piece of paper they give you when you are done aren't even worth being used as toilet paper. Don't get pulled into their propaganda.

If you fell like you need secondary education just go out and get a degree in something you may want to do in case you need something to fall back on.

If you do insist in the "professional" program, stay in Ontario and go to Seneca, or whatever that other school is that gives you free training. Save yourself a lot of money.

Lurch

+1

+2

Either get a real degree, or do like 64% of us have done so far and do without.

bluejet wrote:I actually have two bachelor degrees from the University of Waterloo

I'm a Conestoga Grad.....WWFC does have a new program in conjunction with the UofW. I bet if you talk to the program admin at the flight centre they would be able to take your previous university work and credit the majority of it to their own program and just let you do some structured flying....pm me if you want some names etc..

They can be advantageous for some positions but many companies will bin any resume that notes the person has done their training at one of the "college" programs (the last Ice Pilots episode showed what Buffalo thought of aviation college graduates).

LOL, what Buffalo airways does is suppose to mean something?

many companies will bin any resume that notes the person has done their training at one of the "college" programs

Care to name them?

To stick to your request. Here are the following Ontario FULL time pilot programs

http://aviation.senecac.on.ca/ 4 Years Multi - IFR Degree

http://www.saultc.on.ca/Groups/groups.asp?groupcode=AVI 3 Years Multi - IFR Diploma

http://www.confederationcollege.com/ace/ 2 years, no multi-IFR Diploma

http://www.flyuwo.com/ 4 years Multi - IFR Degree


Some things to keep in mind;
Sault and Confed has a low cost of living. $300/month avg.
Confed does not have MULTI-IFR
Sault, Confed, incorporate flying cost into tuition. Therefore you don't pay for flying separately.

PM me for more info if you like.

If you were a the owner of a charter company and you had two pilots to choose from.

One had taken a career pilot course at an aviation college but couldn't fly worth shit.

The other one had no aviation diploma from a college program but was an excellent pilot.

Who would you hire?

That argument is ridiculously flawed, Cat. Don't bring that bullsh!t to the table.

Who would you rather hire? A Highly educated and skilled diploma pilot, or someone at a local flying club.

Same argument, just opposite side of the fence.

No options for Master's?

Cat Driver wrote:If you were a the owner of a charter company and you had two pilots to choose from.

One had taken a career pilot course at an aviation college but couldn't fly worth shit.

The other one had no aviation diploma from a college program but was an excellent pilot.

Who would you hire?

Obviously, the one who can fly. The real question should be. Who would you hire if they could both fly?
I've run into some good ones, and some bad ones, from both sides.
Luckily, you'd have about 300 pilots to choose. Pick the one willing to pay you the most cash for the job!

That argument is ridiculously flawed, Cat. Don't bring that bullsh!t to the table.

Bullsh!t????

Having been in the position of hiring pilots from Class 4 beginners to Captains at the 705 level I can state 100% that I have seen many of each type I used in my post.

Then again maybe you are far more experienced in aviation than I am.

By the way aggressive postures do not impress me in the least.

Do you own or are you at the head of this table?

Oor Wullie wrote:

They can be advantageous for some positions but many companies will bin any resume that notes the person has done their training at one of the "college" programs (the last Ice Pilots episode showed what Buffalo thought of aviation college graduates).

LOL, what Buffalo airways does is suppose to mean something?

many companies will bin any resume that notes the person has done their training at one of the "college" programs

Care to name them?

Buffalo Joe has been a significant force in NWT aviation for 40 yrs. You may not like what he thinks but it is foolish to ignore what his company does. I know for a fact several West Coast 703 operators have been burned by aviation college graduates who couldn't walk the talk. Unfortunately that has poisoned the well for subsequent applicants. It in may ways is similar to the antipathy many operators, particularly bush operators have against flight instructors. It doesn't matter if it is fair or reasonable, it just is. To not acknowledge industry preconceptions is to willfully disadvantage yourself.

If you were hiring pilots for your operation,

one had no degree (or aviation dimploma) and was a good stick....
and the other had a degree in Engineering, and was a good stick...

Who would you hire?

Strega wrote:If you were hiring pilots for your operation,

one had no degree (or aviation dimploma) and was a good stick....
and the other had a degree in Engineering, and was a good stick...

Who would you hire?

Choice number 2......as long as it wasn't you

Big Pistons Forever wrote:

Strega wrote:If you were hiring pilots for your operation,

one had no degree (or aviation dimploma) and was a good stick....
and the other had a degree in Engineering, and was a good stick...

Who would you hire?

Choice number 2......as long as it wasn't you

I've flown/worked with enough Engineers, I'd choice #1

Lurch

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Buffalo Joe has been a significant force in NWT aviation for 40 yrs. You may not like what he thinks but it is foolish to ignore what his company does. I know for a fact several West Coast 703 operators have been burned by aviation college graduates who couldn't walk the talk. Unfortunately that has poisoned the well for subsequent applicants. It in may ways is similar to the antipathy many operators, particularly bush operators have against flight instructors. It doesn't matter if it is fair or reasonable, it just is. To not acknowledge industry preconceptions is to willfully disadvantage yourself.

College/No College, Degree/No Degree, Good Flight School/Bad Flight School, Instructor Route/Ramp Rat. Where we start to where we finish, a bad pilot will always be a bad pilot.

I don't care which route you take, come with an open mind, williness to learn, and some basic skills. The rest will be learnt over the next 30 years.

Lurch

Well said Lurch.