Known Ice

[phillipsaucer]

Question. How do you know if there is known icing?? Can you get it off a GFA or PIREPS or all of the above?? Dose a GFA count or is it considered a forecast and thus, said to be unknown?? I have been led to believe that known icing conditions exist when visible moisture or high relative humidity combines with temperatures near or below freezing. Since clouds are a form of visible moisture, flying through clouds at an altitude that is near or below freezing would constitute flight into known icing conditions. So from all of the weather products that we have, do you have to interpret between all of them in order to avoid a take off into a 'potential ice situation' or is there a more definitive way to determine what and where 'known ice' may occure??

Where would Transport look to determine if you were in violation of flying into known ice??

[shitdisturber]

If it's on the GFA and you fly into it with an aircraft that isn't equipped, TC will be all over you.

[just curious]

Without trying to be funny, if your airplane isn't equipped for ice, then you really should let fear be your guide.

Metars with freezing drizzle or Freezing rain, rain with a surface temp of 1 or 2; Pireps.

These should be a word to the wise. General aviation aircraft with deice don't perform their best in continuous ice. Non-equipped aircraft are just not far from a quick and painful end in sustained ice.

[FlaplessDork]

Basically if you're in precip or cloud near or above the freezing level expect icing.

[The Old Fogducker]

Another interesting twist ... no airplane has been certified for flight in freezing drizzle, or rain due to the size of the droplet being much larger than that used in certification flights behind the tanker.

Light to moderate ice is all that's used.

Something I was thinking about as I sat over the wing root of the Fokker 100 as Jetsgo flew me into YYZ in freezing rain. Even with a hot wing, it was flowing back onto the wing and refreezing before my eyes.

Many folks don't know what severe ice means by definition ... but I suppose that is always a matter of the fear factor ... any ice of any amount in some airplanes is "severe ice."

OFD

[SuperchargedRS]

If it's on the GFA and you fly into it with an aircraft that isn't equipped, TC will be all over you.

Dont think TC's feeling would even be anywhere on my concern list if I was picking up ice lol More worried about the ice being all over me, then the ground being all over me, then the fire, yea

[Shiny Side Up]

Without trying to be funny, if your airplane isn't equipped for ice, then you really should let fear be your guide.

The problem I find is that there are fools out there who ain't smart enough to be scared.

[trey kule]

Basically if you're in precip or cloud near or above the freezing level expect icing.

I dont think that is the definition of known icing.

The question is a good one. Despite all that is said here, if you are going up and down through the weather, you are going to eventually encouter ice. It is the reality of the world. Fear (as was mentioned), common sense, and a real understanding, should be your guide, not TC.(though they may think they are godlike)

you sometimes simply dont have a choice on a descent..It would do eveyone well to know how to deal with icing..how the aircraft will react. Procedures, and how is the best way to get out of it. The dont go in it is great advice..If you fly totally day VFR. I am constantly surprised during initial training, how many commercially licensed (and IRated) pilots really do not understand the effect ice will have on the aircraft.

Not sure how TC is going to be all over you unless things dont work out, and then I doubt you will give a darn. Maybe some of the survivors' families, but not you. As to flying in known icing conditions (different than conditions suitable to icing) and freezing rain/fog...as others posted, do you really need to be concerned about what TC may or may not do to make a decision?

Now, I believe if you look at the Wx charts, their is a specific forecast for icing (and clouds). Perhaps one of the Wx gurus will clarify it, but as I understand it, if it is on the chart as forecast it is considered to be known icing,

[sirtate]

Basically if you're in precip or cloud near or above the freezing level expect icing.

I dont think that is the definition of known icing.

The question is a good one. Despite all that is said here, if you are going up and down through the weather, you are going to eventually encouter ice. It is the reality of the world. Fear (as was mentioned), common sense, and a real understanding, should be your guide, not TC.(though they may think they are godlike)

you sometimes simply dont have a choice on a descent..It would do eveyone well to know how to deal with icing..how the aircraft will react. Procedures, and how is the best way to get out of it. The dont go in it is great advice..If you fly totally day VFR. I am constantly surprised during initial training, how many commercially licensed (and IRated) pilots really do not understand the effect ice will have on the aircraft.

Not sure how TC is going to be all over you unless things dont work out, and then I doubt you will give a darn. Maybe some of the survivors' families, but not you. As to flying in known icing conditions (different than conditions suitable to icing) and freezing rain/fog...as others posted, do you really need to be concerned about what TC may or may not do to make a decision?

Now, I believe if you look at the Wx charts, their is a specific forecast for icing (and clouds). Perhaps one of the Wx gurus will clarify it, but as I understand it, if it is on the chart as forecast it is considered to be known icing,

I always used the rule of the GFA; if it is mentioned on the GFA, it shouldn't be a surprise because it was known about before you embarked on this adventure... therefore it is known ice...

if you look out the window and see ice forming, you are therefore in known icing conditions...


there have been a number of times that i have flown on top for the duration of the flight and encountered ice during the approach...
numerous safety nazi's the next morning (the safest time to discuss icing, heaven forbid they actually have to make a decision in the air about it) berated me about flight into 'known icing', and wouldn't accept my argument that the quickest way to get out of it was to continue the ILS for another 30 seconds and land... apparently i should have attempted a missed approach and found an alternate... (Wx was 1100/5sm with tops at 3000, i hit the ice just after i intercepted the glideslope) all this for 1/4inch of rime...

i was labeled a cowboy and called unsafe... i am still here, still flying after numerous years... i give ice respect, i don't go looking for it, i don't go out through heavy, convective, cold clouds...

i am still known to plan a cross country IFR above an underlying stratus layer in the winter with an approach required at the end to get under it (some of the best conditions for smooth rides)... the freezing level may be at the surface, but if it isn't mentioned on the GFA... is it known ice?