CBC Does Pilot Fatigue: March 24- 26

[look on your back]

http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/en ... Doc=106569

here is the link for the previews....
don't miss it.. (Thurs March 25th)

THINGS MUST CHANGE

[FL020]

any english versions? im fluent, looks like a great episode, but it would be nice for the rest to see....

[Caracrane]

I fly at the same place the pilot is intervewed. Great guy that had the chance to survive. Used to work for the same company you see the name on the D that crashed nearby 31 threshold in YZV and it's true we were pushed to do 2 much. Good thing it finally comes out. See A99Q0151 on the TSB site.

[Widow]

I heard through the grapevine that there is a English version coming ... I haven't seen anything for TV, but there is this ...

Dead Tired
The Current
Taking to the sky may allow a bit of shut eye for aircraft passengers, but pilots at the helm aren't always afforded the same luxury. Canada lags behind other nations in flight regulation, meaning Canadian pilots are required to work long hours while traversing time zones. �Dead Tired� looks at the dire consequences of pilot fatigue.more >

Wednesday March 24 at 8:30 am on Radio One

http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/

[Widow]

AHA! Nothing like signing up for newsletters! From my inbox:

EXHAUSTED PILOTS, FATAL ACCIDENTS AND OUTDATED AIR INDUSTRY REGULATIONS ARE EXAMINED IN A CBC NEWS EXCLUSIVE INVESTIGATION
MARCH 24-26 ON CBC NEWS

Pilot fatigue. No amount of training or experience can compensate for a pilot who is flying while severely sleep deprived or who has worked excessive hours without rest. And while this problem only makes headlines when tragedy strikes, it may be happening more often than you realize. Dead Tired, a CBC News investigation, sheds light on this dangerous circumstance and asks if Canadian regulators are doing enough to ensure pilots aren’t flying exhausted behind the controls. What the investigation reveals will shock you.

THE NATIONAL – Wednesday, March 24 and Friday, March 26 on CBC Television at 10 p.m. (10:30 NT), and on CBC News Network at 9 p.m. and 11 p.m. ET/PT.

Part one of The National’s two-part investigation focuses on a Quebec plane crash that happened 10 years ago – a crash that displayed all the classic elements of fatigue. Reporter Frederic Zalac talks with Serge Gagne, the pilot of Regionnair flight 347, who reveals for the first time exactly what happened that night. During the course of the investigation, The National discovers not much has changed in Canada’s airline regulations when it comes to pilot fatigue since that accident, despite the fact that more than a dozen airline crashes in Canada may also be linked to pilot fatigue.

In the conclusion of The National’s investigation, the role of Transport Canada is looked at: is the industry regulator doing enough to ensure pilots aren’t pressured by unscrupulous or poorly regulated airlines to exceed the maximum 14-hour day? CBC News looks at the crash last February of Continental Flight 3407 near Buffalo, N.Y., which killed 49 people and the role pilot exhaustion may have played. And Canada’s airline regulatory system is compared to those of other countries – New Zealand, in particular, which is held up as a leader in regulating its domestic airline industry and reducing crashes linked to pilot fatigue.

THE CURRENT – Thursday, March 25 at 8:30 a.m. (9 NT) on CBC Radio One

The Current’s Gino Harel probes why Canada lags behind many other countries when it comes to regulating flight and duty times to combat pilot fatigue. While aircraft are checked to make sure they are mechanically sound, concern exists about pilots. Some are being asked to work long hours, crisscrossing time zones without getting enough of a break to recharge and be alert. This can – and has – led to pilot error with tragic results.

Tune in to CBC News Network, Thursday, March 25, for continuing all-day coverage of this exclusive investigation; your source for Dead Tired online is CBCNews.ca

[DareDevil]

How similar does a tired pilot flying relate to an underpaid/depressed/de-moralized pilot?? if they want to change the work load, maybe they should look at changing the entire way pilots are treated...

[Coast-dog]

Great stuff - thanks for sharing...will tune it if possible while I'm at work on a night shift...

...oooooh, the irony.....

[rigpiggy]

Quote from martin eley about why the recommendations were not implement. "the landscape has changed and we'll be moving forward. The Psychologist who did a study a TC's bequest got a letter from Mervin Preuss telling him to pull 4 of 6 recommendations, and they would be dealt with in Phase 3, which then coincidentally was cancelled. Can't we ding these guys for "criminal negligence"

[rigpiggy]

regrettably, I don't think it will make a difference once the media foofaraa blows over

[DareDevil]

precisely, everyone will have forgotten and move on with their lives until the next event occurrs....and even then

[Janszoon]

What's with the guy working for two companies and flying over his duty day?!!?! He was BLATANTLY accepting hours that would put him over his duty time, and then blaming the rules that are in place as being too lax. Am I way off base on this? Are there more idiots like this out there?? He blames the "culture of the industry"... He was blatantly breaking his duty time and blaming others for his stupidity. Wow....

Thoroughly disgusted.

[Siddley Hawker]

The night that 1900 crashed in ZV, the ILS runway - 09/27 - was closed for repaving. They were coming in from Port Meunier, so he was either doing a straight in ADF or a homemade GPS approach on 31. I don't know what the weather was at the airport, but I was out walking earlier in the evening downtown and you could see about four streetlights.

[Widow]

Read the TSB report: http://www.bst.gc.ca/ENG/rapports-repor ... 9q0005.asp

[Siddley Hawker]

That's a different aircraft with the same company. Here's the one on tonight's news.
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 9q0151.asp

[Widow]

oops ... but boy, when you compare the two - seems like TC coulda shoulda after the first one.

[Bushav8er]

My question is; why doesn't the media actually dig deeper, ask more than one pilot, look at the current regs, learn how companies are manipulating them and then report??

Example: 704 pilot on 2 crew is fatigued, but still okay to fly if moved to 703, or same vein, 8 hours max for single pilot IFR but good for more if last flights are 2 crew or VFR.

I'm sure that others can provide many more examples, all likely far scarier than what has so far been reported.

Still though, nothing will change - industry regulates not government.

[Meatservo]

How similar does a tired pilot flying relate to an underpaid/depressed/de-moralized pilot?? if they want to change the work load, maybe they should look at changing the entire way pilots are treated...

That's what I was thinking. In the unlikely event that TC shortens duty days, or forces operators to provide more time free from duty, the operators will compensate by paying less. Whoopee. What a victory for us pilots. I suppose if you're getting paid by the hour or by the mile, you'll get hurt the worst if they actually shorten the duty day or give you more days off. The employer wins no matter what.

[W0XOF]

Here's another dynamic. Ok, in that piece, here's a pilot that works for 2 companies. If he self regulated using TC regulations, or TC read his log book everyday, this wouldn't be an issue. But what if he worked a full time non flying job or went to university full time and also flew. Fatigue would be the same, but would go undetected until too late.

Reason why I bring this up is, when I first started with NavCanada, at that time flying jobs were scarce, guys/gals would fly money generating flights in the right seat for free or would pay the company for the privilege of building up hours. All around the clock.

Does this still happen???

No different, probably worse, since there are no log books for everything outside of flying.

['79K20driver]

It's good to see this get some attention in the media as it badly needs it, but the guy they used was a bad example. When you work for two companies it's up to you to track your hours to make sure you're legal. 60 hours over his monthly limit? 18 hour day working two jobs? Those things don't happen without your own knowledge.

I'd like to see some attention given to the concept of "unforeseen circumstances" that companies (incl 705) seem to twist and apply to just about any situation in order to push a duty day past 14 hours.

[highlander]

I'm glad that these things are being brought forward. But my question is will this type of coverage evoke any sort of change? Just a couple of months ago, the Fifth Estate did a piece on airport security......or theoreof.....but in the end I don't think this did anything to change it.

The question I would ask is how come we don't have more groups like ATAC, ALPA, ACPA, WJPA, or whatever you want to pressure the government?????

Maybe get a letter writing campaign going??????

[Carrier]

Quote: "Canada lags behind other nations in flight regulation, meaning Canadian pilots are required to work long hours while traversing time zones."

Quote: "How similar does a tired pilot flying relate to an underpaid/depressed/de-moralized pilot?? if they want to change the work load, maybe they should look at changing the entire way pilots are treated..."
Right on!

Most professional pilots in Canada do not traverse time zones (plural) during their normal duties. Again there is this dumb fixation that all professional pilots are AIRLINE pilots. Doh!

The fundamental problem is not the current flight/duty hours limitations imposed by Transport Canada. It is their poor pay, along with abusive working conditions.

The vast majority of professional pilots who are not airline pilots and those at the bottom of the list in the airlines face a far worse problem than their TC duty limitations. Their pay is so poor that they have to take second jobs just to get by. This happens with airlines in the USA as evidenced by the situation of the Continental/Colgan Air pilots who crashed at Buffalo. It also happens in Canada. Just look at the starting pay for both Captains and F/Os at Central Mountain Air and similar airlines. How can anyone afford a reasonable basic apartment or house and support a family on that in Calgary, Toronto and Vancouver? Then add in for paying off their training loans and running a car.

Postmen, bus drivers, prison guards, customs officers, many truckers and police all have starting salaries that are considerably higher than that of an experienced Captain on a 19 pax commuter airliner. Those are starting salaries whereas the pilot would only become a Captain on a commuter airliner after several years of experience and moving up (?) the aviation food chain. Look at the differences in training and experience requirements, student loan costs and responsibility. Is something wrong?

Many professional pilots working for non-airline operators have to live ten to an apartment and sleep on the floor to get by. They struggle to keep their clunker cars working in order to be able to get to work, because there is inadequate or no 24 hour/day public transport to most airports. How will cutting their flight duty days by a couple of hours solve the inadequate pay problem?

As long as professional pilots are paid so poorly they will continue to need second jobs and be forced to live in conditions that are not conducive to good rest. They will have to continue to fly while tired and the travelling public will continue to be at risk.

Then there are the other conditions referred to in these threads: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=63140 and viewtopic.php?f=54&t=63294 Tinkering with just the TC daily hours limit would be like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[turbo-prop]

I can't believe this guy is still flying after knowingly breaking regulations. How can TC let guys like this continue to keep a license?

[loopa]

How similar does a tired pilot flying relate to an underpaid/depressed/de-moralized pilot?? if they want to change the work load, maybe they should look at changing the entire way pilots are treated...

A big fat + 1

[Hot Fuel]

How will cutting their flight duty days by a couple of hours solve the inadequate pay problem?

And this my friends is the 24 karat question. If Transport decides to “fix” the duty day problem and make a shift to something that factors in circadian rhythms (which I think they should) it opens up another can of worms, pay schemes.

Currently employers create flight schedules and flight crew pools based on the number of aircraft and hours projected. If the number of hours a flight crew can operate said aircraft decreases the number of flight crew required to operate the same schedule must increase or something gets parked.

How many think that employers will simply just increase the numbers in the flight crew pool to accommodate a change without considering a reduction to the pay scheme of those that will no longer be available for the same number of hours prior to any change in duty limits. I’m suggesting companies that use a base or monthly minimum plus mileage type scheme. Same pay, less availability…can’t see a lot of employers buying into that!

Can’t count the number of times its been suggested that pilots should be paid for duty time and not flight time and that overtime should be paid out after eight hours a day or 40 hours a week like any other job. Perhaps it’s time to abandon the glory days and forget the notion that you can work 10 or 15 days a month and make over 100K a year. Pay schemes need to move with the times as well, the whole industry has changed dramatically in the past twenty five years, it’s time to change the pay schemes to match the desires of today’s pilots.

[Janszoon]

I can't believe this guy is still flying after knowingly breaking regulations. How can TC let guys like this continue to keep a license?

Thinking the same thing. Also, how can Serge Gagné blame a system and its regulations after knowingly busting his duty day and times? He was accusing the system of being too lax in regards to pilot fatigue while at the same time was guilty of knowingly breaking those lax rules. Yes, TC does not always look into every individual and keep track of their hours, but YOU have a responsibility to abide by those rules. You have peoples' lives in your hands. 18th duty hour that day and 180th hour of the month...

Flight Time Limitations

700.15 (1) Subject to subsection (2), no air operator shall assign a flight crew member for flight time, and no flight crew member shall accept such an assignment, if the flight crew member's total flight time in all flights conducted by the flight crew member will, as a result, exceed... etc etc

Flight Duty Time Limitations and Rest Periods

700.16 (1) Subject to subsections (5) and (7), no air operator shall assign a flight crew member for flight duty time, and no flight crew member shall accept such an assignment, if the flight crew member's flight duty time will, as a result, exceed 14 consecutive hours in any 24 consecutive hours.


Pilot fatigue raised in Canadian crashes
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/03/ ... ue025.html
Excerpt:

"No one wants to be exhausted. No one wants to get hurt. No one wants to have an accident. But it's the culture of the industry that brings us there," said Serge Gagné, a pilot who was involved in a deadly crash where fatigue was cited as a clear factor.

Gagné, 38, of Quebec City, knows all too well the pressures pilots at small airlines face. He was working for two Quebec regional airlines — Regionnair and Confortair — but still scraping by with earnings of less than $28,000 a year when the plane crash happened.

Though he was co-pilot on Regionnair Flight 347, he was operating the plane during the fatal landing, with the captain guiding him through thick fog at the airport in the eastern Quebec city of Sept-Iles just before midnight on Aug. 12, 1999. The Beech 1900 plane descended too early and hit trees two kilometres short of the runway, crashing into the ground.

The captain, Yvan Tremblay, was pulled from the wreckage but pronounced dead at hospital. Two passengers survived without a scratch.

At the time, Gagné was in his 18th hour of duty, having worked at both airlines, and on his 30th day in a row without a break. Records showed he had accumulated 60 hours over the monthly limit allowed by Transport Canada.

"I began feeling like I had been flattened. I couldn't do anything. I had no energy," recalls Gagné, who now works for another airline.

Though Canadian regulations prohibit air operators from putting pilots on duty if they've exceeded the time limits, Gagné says it's easy to do so without even realizing it, because hours are only reported once a month.

"It's a question of money," said Steve. "The less pilots they hire, the more money they make. There's not a lot of spotlight on these [smaller] companies. Transport Canada doesn't focus their attention on them."

.... or on pilots knowingly flying over their duty day/time limits. I hope this pilot does not represent the norm in this industry.