BA038 B777 Heathrow crash pilot forced onto welfare . . .

[robbreid]

This is both disturbing and sad;

Daily Mirror

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Peter Burkill's Blog

upcoming book . . .

[iflyforpie]

Seems quite a contrast to Captain Sully's fate under similar circumstances (arguable more serious, given the larger aircraft, the lack of reaction time, and the incipient nature of the engine failure).

You'd think BA would have commended his actions and welcomed his publicity.

Unbelievable!

[robbreid]

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/sites/aaib/publi ... ctions.cfm

AAIB's Final report on the accident.

[Mig29]

That is really sad.....goes to show you, that when the time comes, the only people that will stand behind you is your family.

[Salty_Balls]

"That is really sad.....goes to show you, that when the time comes, the only people that will stand behind you is your family"

Very wise words my friend

[IBPilot]

"That is really sad.....goes to show you, that when the time comes, the only people that will stand behind you is your family"

Very wise words my friend

Yes, how true!!

I am so outraged at this. This is unjust and so depressing to see this. A man who the world should be worshiping for his piloting skills and decisions is being punished. To be honest, when I saw this on the news about this BA pilot way back when, I was think to myself, "man, he is going to be one of the best paid pilot's in the world now. What a true hero!!" All I have to say is that I am deeply upset at this.

If I was the CEO of a company, I would hire this man in a heartbeat. It's always good to know that you have a pilot on your staff that is a hero for aviation. I just cannot get over this. Such a bad situation for him and I send his family my deepest sympathies and I sincerely send them all the best. I salute him with all my dignity and honour!!!

May God Bless him and his family

[Inverted2]

What a sad story. The british love gossip and rumours and seems like this guy was hung out to dry by rumours. I hope he gets his job back.

[Hedley]

I don't understand. I thought this was found to be a design problem with ice formation in the fuel at particular temps, which caused the fuel flow restriction.

How did they manage to hang this on the pilot?!

[Meatservo]

They didn't, really. He says malicious rumours began to surface about him "freezing" at the controls or something like that. I guess he probably didn't actually "freeze" at the controls, or else they would all be dead, but anyway the rumours were so upsetting that he took a voluntary layoff, believing it would be no problem to get a job elsewhere. Due to his celebrity status other companies don't want to pick him up due to the strange media atmosphere in that country. All the official reports state that he and his F.O. are completely above reproach. So basically he quit from B.A. because some malignant bastard spread bullshit rumours about him and scared the skittish flight attendants, and he can't get a job anywhere else either. The union can't do anything for him because he quit. The whole thing is quite shameful. Hopefully the poor man gets a break at some point.

[phillyfan]

I'm sure if he dropped his standards a little he would be working right now. Seems he's looking only for 777 gigs. You see this all the time in the welfare and ei office. Guys would rather bitch about how the world owes them then take even a tiny step backwards.

[MichaelP]

Many years ago I sat in the back of the Stampe and learned aerobatics... One of my aerobatics instructors was Tim.
A few years later Tim was flying an Airbus 340 that was delivered new from the factory a fortnight before...
A pin came loose and the left main gear would not go down....
He flew around and through contact with maintenance on the ground they decided what to do... The centre main leg had to be retracted, and then they did a good landing on the right main and left pods...
Tim was the perfect pilot for this, his other aeroplane was an SU26!

He was a hero, and there he was on TV putting the whole issue down, he was saving his own skin as well after all and only doing his job... Tim is a modest bloke.
Then the press went fishing into his background... Looking for some juicy little tidbits... It wasn't pleasant, he had an ex-wife and she didn't like his first love at all... [Flying!].

I recently talked to someone else on the same topic. She was accused of stealing from the till!
People are jealous creatures sometimes and they will make accusations... If you stay, do your job, and be as honest as you are then these accusations will go away with time unless they are well founded!
If you quit then the world will see you as guilty as charged!

So the moral of all this is 'Stand your ground', if you were wrongly accused do not give in.

[ez4u2say]

Interview with pilot of BA038

http://www.avweb.com/podcast/podcast/Au ... latedStory

[North Shore]

I have great sympathy for this man's position, but, at the end of the day, it is no-one's fault but his own. He quit BA without first securing another job...

[ehbuddy]

A BA 777 Skipper probably rakes in some pretty serious coin and this was not his first day on the job. Maybe tucking some away for a 'rainy day' would have been a good idea. I know alot of guys that will never ever see a paycheck like what he was getting and they are managing.

[tsgas]

IMHO I believe that throwing away his position at BA shows a flaw in his judgement process and that could be one issue that is hurting his chances of finding getting another first rate job especially during a Global Recession.
There are thousands of laid off airline pilots available ,so I suggest, that he should of just sucked it up and appricate his great job, his wife and three boys, and his good health.
Millons of people live on a lot less.

[lot lizard]

The BA (British for that matter) way of dealing with anything that may harm the reputation of their brand image is to rid themselves of the perceived problem faster than a soiled johnny. Anyone who has any experience with these types will tell you this, ask any EK or CX pilot.

You better believe BA Flight Ops pushed this guy out the door, he certainly didnt quit on his own accord. All the accolaids put on this guy in public gloss over the fact that until the offical findings came out, BA wanted as much distance from this poor guy as possible. If BA was so proud of their boy, they would have an open door policy for him to return or offered an LOA.

We can only imagine what this guy went through and the self analysis after any incident that a pilot goes through will stay with you until you pop your clogs. You cant say it was a flaw in his judgement because you proabably have not been tested like this guy has and have no idea what he is going through.

When you work for a big machine like BA, its not as simple as sucking it up and collecting your cheque. As well when you have an incident or accident on your record, even if your the hero, no one overseas will touch you.

[TG]

so I suggest, that he should of just sucked it up and appricate his great job, his wife and three boys, and his good health.
Millons of people live on a lot less.

You are giving the man a harsh judgment! Without knowing all the facts.
That is exactly what he was told to do, sucked up!
And to quote the man in question:

I was forbidden to talk to the media whilst at BA.

The rumors mills was going full blast on him (from people not knowing all the facts!) BA management would not react to it and he was told to say nothing.






He is posting on PPrune by the way. Under 'Mmmayday38' name.

[tsgas]

You are giving the man a harsh judgment! Without knowing all the facts.

That was a suggestion TG so its you that is judging me because I dare to have my own opinion or views? What kind of shallow human being are you ?

[TG]

No fuss, I'm judging you as giving a harsh suggestion then

Same you are doing on me.

[Nephilim]

I empathize with this BA pilot. Sounds to me like he is suffering from PTSD. Back at his workplace it would likely cause anxiety, leading to avoidance tactics.

I had a similar experience (although with a much smaller aircraft). In 1981 I was to do a charter in a Navajo (3 government officials and gear), but was grounded for an inspection that took longer than anticipated. I was bumped onto the Aztec but it had a mag drop out of tolerances, and a written snag not yet addressed. I was then bumped onto a company C172XP that was a brand new airplane, new to the company too. No company checkout, just told to go. After all by this time we were more than an hour late for departure.

An hour into the flight the tachometer failed but the engine continued to run for several minutes. I elected to continue the flight as everything else seemed normal, however, I did divert to a small bush strip that I knew was more or less along the route of flight. Within 5 minutes of the tachometer failing, the oil pressure suddenly dropped to zero and the oil temperature began to rise. I throttled back looking for a safe emergency landing site but was surrounded by rock and forest for as far as the eye could see. Within a minute of the sudden oil pressure loss, there was a load “bang” and the engine and prop came to a grinding halt with hot oil all over the windscreen.

I had been letting the right seat passenger (Minister of Indian Affairs) fly the plane straight and level (with the permission of his two back seat aides). However, when the tachometer failed the flying passenger at first let go of the controls in alarm, but shortly after when everything had stabilized he asked if he could fly again. I let him put his hands back on the yoke again because I believed then that it was just an RPM gauge problem. However, one of the aides said then that she didn’t feel comfortable with her boss doing the flying with a broken cockpit gauge. I was about to take over again (flying a straight and level trimmed up plane) due to her concerns, but before I could do so the oil pump seized which led to oil starvation and eventually engine failure (about 30 seconds after oil pressure loss even with a throttled back engine).

Trying to put out a ‘Mayday’ call, the backseat aide started strangling me from behind and I couldn’t get the words out. She kept yelling “you stupid pilot, you shouldn’t have let him fly” thinking that somehow this Minister was responsible for the failure. This Minister could see me struggle while being throttled from behind. Without bating an eye he undid his seatbelt, leaned into the back seat and all I could hear was a solid ‘smack’ as he nailed this poor old girl. She let go immediately and as I put out the Mayday calls and gave a passenger emergency briefing with the only other sound that of whistling air. I could smell hot oil and as we got closer to the ground both aides in the back started screaming ‘oh my God were gonna die.” The Minister up front started hail Mary-ing and stated over and over “I should have hug my kids this morning, I should have told my wife that I loved her.” The aircraft began to hit the tops of trees and I remember seeing the airspeed indicator bouncing around 45 knots and I was amazed the plane still flew while stalling through the trees.

Immediately after the crash I had to kick both doors open because the gas was spilling from the tanks and onto the still hot engine. As we all got out and examined ourselves there were no injuries, no even a scratch, except the female aide kept rubbing her cheek and saying she didn’t remember how she bumped her cheek. The Minister, other aide and myself, all looked at each other sheepishly but didn’t dare mention to her that her sore cheek was caused by the Minister smacking her.

Anyways the point of this story is that the following day the local paper had front page news about the crash, with the headline “Pilot forgot to check oil.” No idea where that rumour came from. I did check the oil before the flight and TC accident investigation confirmed that oil had been in the engine prior to the massive failure. Someone had been interviewed and said that when the accident crash site had been investigated, the engine oil sump was found to be dry. Of course, there was also a gaping hole on top of the engine which had pumped out all the oil, but of course that was never mentioned.

I was fired from the company I was employed with because of the oil rumour, despite the fact the company knew better and the director of maintenance had watched me check the oil after the other two dispatches didn’t work earlier that day. Transport Canada blamed me initially because I did not have a check-out on type, and in fact the company did not yet have the C172XP on their OC. Wasn’t the companies fault but was the pilot-in-commands fault I was told?

It took two years for the accident investigation to conclude that the crash was caused by a fault in the manufactures’ part failure, and not pilot induced. In fact it was noted that under the circumstances the pilot did everything in his power to crash land the aircraft without sustaining any passenger injuries. The RPM tachometer was driven off of the same power drive as was the oil pump. A permanently (or encased housing unit) greased bearing came with no internal grease and seized after 70 hours of operation. This led to the almost immediate failure of the oil pump followed by the almost immediate failure of the engine.

Despite this the company would not hire me back because of the rumours. In that two year period (from accident until investigation concluded) I went back to my pre-aviation employment (it paid better) because no one would hire me with the rumours then. I went to the local newspaper company to request a retraction article; however, they refused stating that my exoneration was no longer news worthy. It cost me $2,000 back then for a lawyer to force the newspaper to write a retraction, however, it finally showed up on a Sunday edition back page of the classifieds in small print. It took years before those rumours stopped, however, I am sure there are those out there who still believe I ran that airplane out of oil. Pilot’s and people in the industry are, as you probably know, great at back stabbing (great! - a left seat vacancy), God bless their souls.

For you young pilots starting out, especially without the protection of a union (despite their many faults) watch out for accident induced workplace injuries. After the above scenario I couldn’t get out of bed one morning months after the crash, and it was eventually determined that I had collapsed (bulged) three lower back discs. Workers Comp denied the claim for years after the accident stating that I had been fired from the company for negligence, therefore not covered under the Act. Even after I was exonerated by TC, WCB still denied the claim. I would not have pushed the incident with WCB, however, TC already pulled my license once because of the back condition and have continued the threat ever since. It was not until 1998 (17 years after the crash) that WCB finally recognized the claim. By 1998 however, I only received a small pension because WCB stated that after I was denied coverage at the time of injury, I did not continue with treatment as prescribed by the doctor. And of course the reason I did not continue at that time was because WCB would not recognize the claim, and because it was specialized doctors work that did not qualify for government assistance and I could not afford the treatments on my own back then (pilots loans and no job).

Document everything and always remember that (most) companies only work and have interest in their bottom line.

Fly safe

[ez4u2say]

part 2 of interview with Capt of BA038
http://www.avweb.com/podcast/podcast/Au ... AVwebAudio