Float plane crashes off B.C. with up to four on board

[midwingcrisis]

Float plane crashes off B.C. with up to four on board; no word on survivors
By: The Canadian Press

29/05/2010 6:00 PM | Comments: 0
Print E–mail Share ThisReport Error TOFINO, B.C. - Search-and-rescue officials say a float plane with four people on board has crashed in the waters off southwestern Vancouver Island.

Wayne Bamford of the Joint Rescue Co-ordination Centre in Victoria says an air and water search has turned up no sign of survivors, and an RCMP dive team is expected to arrive on Sunday.

Bamford says the plane, carrying a pilot and as many as three passengers, went down near Ahousat.

He says it appears the plane nose dived hard into the water, and witnesses say they say it upside down with its pontoons sticking up before sinking.

Bamford says search-and-rescue divers weren't able to locate the plane.

It's not clear who owned or operated the plane.

(Westcoaster.ca)

[Widow]

Hoping for the best ...

[ragbagflyer]

Terrible terrible news. Early reports suggest it was one of Atleo River Air's planes.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columb ... ofino.html

[flyinthebug]

Holding my breath on this one! ........................

[Go Guns]

From the Vancouver Sun

VICTORIA — Four people are believed dead after a float plane crashed off Vancouver Island, north of Tofino, near the First Nations community of Ahousat at 12:15 p.m. Saturday.

The Atleo Air Cessna 185 had taken off from Tofino and was on its way to Ahousat, a 12-minute flight. Officer manager Misty Lawson would not confirm how many people were on board because the company is attempting to contact the families.

An Ahousaht woman who did not want to be identified confirmed that a brother and a sister and another young woman from the reserve were passengers on the plane. She did not know who the pilot was.

The float plane crashed upside down with its pontoons above the water and remained on the surface for 10 minutes before sinking in 15 metres of water, said 2nd Lieut. Victor Weston of the Victoria Joint Rescue Co-ordination Centre.

People from Ahousat were out on the water and saw the crash, said maritime co-ordinator Wayne Bamford.

“Witnesses said it was quite a severe impact, so it’s not likely anyone could have survived this,” said Bamford. “The maximum number of people on board were four but even that we can’t confirm 100 per cent.”

Water taxis and all of Ahousat’s fishing boats were on the scene immediately. No one was seen exiting the plane, he said.

One Ahousat resident tried to tie a line on the plane when the pontoons were still above water but was unable to support it before it sank.

The area was searched for more than two and a half hours but nothing was found, no debris, said Bamford.

VRCC sent the Coast Guard vessel Cape Calvert from Tofino, a Buffalo fixed-wing search and rescue aircraft and a Cormorant helicopter from 442 Squadron. Search and rescue divers arrived on the scene and dived for the float plane but couldn’t locate it, said Bamford.

“After the initial dive, we felt it was not prudent to do a second dive and put our divers at risk. There’s a lot of current there. The plane obviously didn’t sink in a direct line where it hit the water.”

Because it is unlikely there are any survivors, the search has been turned over to Tofino RCMP.

The search and rescue divers will begin recovery dives tomorrow, said Bamford.

A community meeting is being held at Thunderbird Hall.

More to come

[flyinthebug]

Terrible news. My condolences to the friends and families of those lost.

[Cougar]

I'm so very sorry to read this. Sincere condolences to the families and friends of those involved... what a tragedy.

Respectfully..

[YYZatcboy]

RIP... Been a bad couple of weeks for aviation.

[c_172pilot]

The names have been released. I knew the pilot quite well. I flew with him a lot and he checked me out on his Taylorcraft. I will never forget our flight to Williams Lake. His passion for flying was second to none. A better friend/pilot/engineer you could not find! Rest in peace my friend.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/news/3 ... l?tab=PHOT

[ragbagflyer]

Just saw a CTV piece that said the only reason the passengers were on the plane is because they were too intoxicated to get on the water taxi.

[The Old Fogducker]

A terrible loss, but with interesting timing. This may punctuate the newspaper series being printed about BC floatplane operations.


http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20 ... sh-100530/

OFD

[flyinthebug]

A terrible loss, but with interesting timing. This may punctuate the newspaper series being printed about BC floatplane operations.


http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20 ... sh-100530/

OFD

Banned from taking a water taxi because they were too INTOXICATED...BUT, its ok to put them on a 4 seat seaplane? Yup, that makes sense. Are you kidding me????? What a shame.

On a side note.. I agreed to fly an intoxicated passenger ONCE...only because he had a security escort from the prison he had just been released from. When he grabbed the yoke, and myself and the officer in the back had to struggle with him for almost 45 secs to regain control of my ship... that was the LAST time for me.

[flying_dutchman]

Does anyone on here know the registration of the accident aircraft?

[Finn47]

According to CADORS 2010P0657 (just published)

The aircraft is reported to be the Atleo River Air Service Cessna A185F (C-GIYQ)

[Widow]

[The Old Fogducker]

Well done Kirsten. Keep the story out in front of people and don't give up.

Its surprising how little things have changed since I flew the coast almost 35 years ago.

The Old Fogducker
...the name came from my days flying floats on the coast

[Invertago]

Global news quoted John Baird as saying he's had enough and is promising to make the float industry safer.

I'm crossing my fingers, but he is after all a politician so we'll see what happens when the media moves on.

[The Old Fogducker]

Oh ho hummm .. here comes a big round of Inspectors checking floatplane C of R's at the dock to put a series of checkmarks in boxes on a Contact Inspection sheet.

The Minister gets to stand in Parliament and tell the Speaker of The House that "Enforcement has been stepped up" .... and everyone goes away happy for another decade of the same old same old.

Forgive my open cynacism, but as soon as they start actually doing things like actively monitoring the transportation system by riding along on airplanes during skeds and charters, checking weather, passing minmum enroute altitude regs and enforcing them ... or whatever the heck they do, there will be such a hew and cry from operators, and pilots that Transport will back of to avoid the contoversy, and answering letters of complaint.

Just wait til the first guy gets tagged for an overload, or charged with being negligent after trying to land a 185 in 5 foot swells, busting off a set of floats, and this board will go absolutely nuts with people calling TC Inspectors Nazi SS Members better suited to searching for members of the resistance hiding in attics to avoid being sent to a concentration camp. "Oh, he was a great guy, just trying to get the job done ... like any of us would" or any one of a thousand reasons to not change a thing.

I will watch with great interest, because something actually needs to be done, not just be seen to be done.

The Old Fogducker

[c_172pilot]

CTV pointed out that the pax where too intoxicated to take the water taxi so they took the sea plane, what the heck are 3 drunks doing on a sea plane in the first place! They never should have been allowed on board! I wonder if this fact will be researched further. 3 people who are drunk have almost a 0% chance of getting out of a submerged sea plane. They should investigate why three drunks where permitted on board in the first place.

On the news they made the comment that the back seat passengers had their seat belts undone so it was likely that they survived the crash and where likely trapped inside the airplane. Statements like that are very misleading; it is also very likely that they didn’t have them on in the first place. I know lots of passengers would take theirs off so they could chat with the passenger in the front seat, especially if they didn’t have head sets all around.

As far as industry making changes it all begins with the consumer. What if tomorrow everyone said we will no longer fly in beavers until they replace the passenger door handle with one that is more geared towards safety? I imagine that the industry would be forced to make some changes. Companies like Viking, Sealand and Kenmore will not build doors that come off easier and door handles that are easier to use because the cost of developing, testing and obtaining the STC are huge. These costs are then passed on to the seaplane companies who look at the cost of optional upgrades and pass because it will not bring in a profit. The passengers who fly don’t care if you have the safest equipment, the best maintained aircraft or the best trained pilots. They care about one thing, the bottom dollar. Why fly with company X when company Y is $15 cheaper? Until the consumer demands a higher standard in seaplane travel thru the government industry will not change.

What needs to happen is TC needs to grow a pair (or legislated a pair) and start protecting the public who pay their salaries. They need to start making policies that make sense and doing more than an occasional ramp check or auditing paperwork. Kristen has done admirable work towards this goal how ever the industry needs to get on board too. The seaplane industry has become a race to the bottom. Profit margins are so slim that any expense above and beyond what is legally required for safety is money that the companies don’t have. The only way things will ever change is if the laws are changed but that is going to take a lot more noise from us and the consumer! But OFD is correct the industry will never change, there is too much of the whole "if I aint broke don’t fix it" mentality amongst pilots, seaplane operators and passengers alike.

[turbo-prop]

The Canadian Press

Date: Tuesday Jun. 1, 2010 6:42 AM ET

TOFINO, B.C. — The federal transport minister ordered a review into float plane safety on Monday, two days after a crash off British Columbia left four people dead.

The announcement comes after years of reports that have repeatedly recommended changes to improve safety for people riding in the small float planes -- recommendations the federal government has so far failed to implement.

"I think it's clear we don't need any more studies," Transport Minister John Baird said in a news release.

Baird said he has ordered his staff to conduct a review into improving the safety on float planes, including reviewing design standards.

He said officials will also examine ways to improve escape from a submerged float plane, such as the operation of emergency exits, pop-out windows, life vests and training for commercial crews.

In addition, Baird said he also told his staff to create a float plane safety awareness campaign beginning in June, and strengthen investigation and enforcement for operators found to be violating existing rules.

Saturday's float plane crash involved a Cessna 185 on a short trip to Ahousat from nearby Tofino.

Witnesses said the plane nose-dived several kilometres from shore. On Monday, federal investigators raised the badly damaged plane from the ocean floor.

The cause of the crash isn't known, and it's not clear how the passengers and pilot died. Police have confirmed they were all still in the plane's cabin when they were found, but it wasn't known whether the passengers were strapped into their seatbelts.

Another crash last November at Saturna Island, located just east of Vancouver Island, left six people dead, including a six-month-old infant. None of the victims were wearing life jackets, and all of their bodies were found inside the plane.

The Transportation Safety Board has said drowning is the cause of death in 60 to 70 per cent of all fatal float-plane crashes, and the recommendations following accidents often focus on helping passengers escape submerged aircraft.

For example, a 2006 review ordered by the federal government recommended life vests be worn and doors left unlocked during takeoff and landing, and that there be a way to ensure that cargo and baggage doesn't interfere with people scrambling to get out of the plane.

A TSB report in 1994 made the same recommendation about life vests.

However, Transport Canada has resisted adopting such recommendations.

Bill Yearwood of the Transportation Safety Board said that anything done to improve chances of people getting out of a submerged plane "is a step in the right direction."

Meanwhile, investigators have started examining the wreckage from Saturday's crash.

"It's a badly broken up aircraft and there's a lot of work to be done to sort out what damage came first, what angle the aircraft struck the water at to cause that damage," said Yearwood.

His three-person team has started inspecting the wreckage to determine if the damage supports witness reports that the plane suddenly careened nose-first into the water, about three-quarters of the way through the six-minute journey from Tofino to the remote village. Ahousat can only be reached by sea or air.

The team was also handed underwater photos and video taken by a team of RCMP divers, who on Sunday retrieved the bodies of siblings Katrina Sam, 22, and Edward (Hunter) Sam, 28, their cousin Samantha Mattersdorfer, 24, and Tofino-based pilot Damon York, 33.

"My concern right now is to try and get information that may perish. As we move the aircraft we need to check everything that could be damaged in the move, so that's what we're doing right now," Yearwood said, explaining the plane will then be shipped to Richmond for further analysis.

The B.C. Coroner's Service is investigating. Island Regional Coroner Lyn Blenkinsop said they haven't yet received word from the hospital about when autopsies and toxicology studies will begin, and it will then take six to 12 weeks to get results.

All three passengers were young parents, and well-known in the community.

John Caton, who runs Clayoquot Wilderness Resort in Tofino where the two siblings worked, said the trio were heading back home after a shopping trip.

"They were two young great First Nations kids this should have never happened to," he said, adding he was on his way to the village to bring food to the family. "They were hard-working.... It's a tragic thing."

Scott Fraser, MLA for the Alberni-Pacific Rim region that includes Ahousat, said he'd met all the victims and had flown himself in the very plane that crashed.

"In Ahousat, everybody knew these young people and they're going to be dearly missed," he said. "They're a community that's going to be grieving for a while and my heart goes out to them."

Fraser said he'll want to hear any recommendations from the TSB report, adding that he's heard there may have been "an issue" around exiting the plane.

[HS-748 2A]

On the news they made the comment that the back seat passengers had their seat belts undone so it was likely that they survived the crash and where likely trapped inside the airplane. Statements like that are very misleading; it is also very likely that they didn’t have them on in the first place. I know lots of passengers would take theirs off so they could chat with the passenger in the front seat, especially if they didn’t have head sets all around.

Exactly - What crosses my minds here is, what are the odds that these drunk passengers were jacking around and caused the whole thing?

On this note:

As far as industry making changes it all begins with the consumer. What if tomorrow everyone said we will no longer fly in beavers until they replace the passenger door handle with one that is more geared towards safety? I imagine that the industry would be forced to make some changes. Companies like Viking, Sealand and Kenmore will not build doors that come off easier and door handles that are easier to use because the cost of developing, testing and obtaining the STC are huge.

The consumer is not going to change. Everybody wants their 8 minute McFlight to the liquor store in Toffino to be as bargain-basement as possible.

After all, when the passengers are sober, you're in competition with the ferry.

It's not always just the Big-Bad-Corporate-All-For-Profit operators that are the bad guys, standing in the way of safety.

Maybe Transport should remove a few layers of red tape and make the process for STC approvals less expensive??? There's a whacky idea.

The ass-covering beurocrats that drown us daily in paperwork serve almost entirely as an obstacle too.

They've also sucked what modest profitability that there was out of the business.

So there might be a place to start as we look to point fingers.

Slash some of the mind-numbing beurocracy and make these STCs affordable.

Beyond that, we've got to keep airplanes from 'nose-diving' into the water...

That is probably the more important concern.

'48

[Bushav8er]

Sorry for the loss.

I've always said that flying is more than hands and feet - pilot judgment / decision making is also a major key to safety.

The one area of focus should be; was the company mentality such that the pilots 'feel' forced to accept flights?

[Sulako]

First of all, my condolences to the friends and family of the victims - truly awful news. I hope that the cause can be quickly identified and steps taken so that it doesn't happen again.

As a sidepoint: I flew intoxicated pax once, and I'd never do it again. They got into a fight in the back seats of the Baron I was flying - blood everywhere. I told them I was gonna call the RCMP on the radio to greet them on landing, which calmed them down for the few minutes it took to land the plane at our destination. Once I landed, the scrap started up again, and as they were deplaning, the lady pushed one guy off the wing and he fell and ripped the flap off the actuator arm so it was hanging down on the flap rails. I called my boss and he told me to fly the plane home, and that the flap would "probably tuck itself up back into position" once I got going fast enough. I declined, and he told me I could sleep in the plane overnight. I did, and that's how I spent my birthday in 1997. Oh, and I made $2.70 for the flight (two percent of the $135 we charged for the 15 minute flight).

I remember another guy who flew an intoxicated bunch of baseball players from point A to point B and got punched in the face when he asked the guys to stop wrestling in the aisle. Oh wait, that was me too, the difference was they didn't start drinking until after the gear was up, but they managed to get completely loaded and unruly during the 45 minute flight.

It seems to me that drunk pax pretty much = violence, which can easily escalate to life-or-death in a small plane. I'm not saying that was the cause here, obviously we don't have all the details yet, but it's certainly something to think about for pilots who might not have been in that situation before - for your own safety, let the pax sleep it off before agreeing to do the trip.

[Ogee]

Global news quoted John Baird as saying he's had enough and is promising to make the float industry safer.

I'm crossing my fingers, but he is after all a politician so we'll see what happens when the media moves on.

I'm all for making the float industry safer, but the truth is this accident has nothing to do with the aircraft being a float plane or with egress issues. It appears that it went straight down nose first into the water and the force of the impact was such that all on board likely died on impact. Neither of these things happened because it was a float plane and it appears that the same thing could have happened to a 185 on wheels.

Certainly the presence of intoxicated passengers comes into the possible cause mix, approach stall, blown flap, but nothing float plane specific.

But if it leads to action, however late and however stupid it makes Baird look for connecting it to float plane specific problems, its some good that can come from this awful event.

You are a credit to your husband's memory, Kirsten.

[Tuk U]

748 has it right, finally a bit of common sense on this OLD topic. the somber fact is there are certain aspects of our business you can't fix by regulating or by arm chair flying, I'm sorry for your loss, but going in, we are all aware of the risks and it is up to the individual in the left seat to be as aware and prepared as possible, if I swing that prop and go... the minute I make that decision the rest is on my shoulders, it's not the owner or the ops.manager or the badly designed doors or the life jackets or whatever you wish to blame, the crap maintenance, when you have a car with crap tires do you drive it in ice conditions in the same manner as dry roads. I guarantee you Ottawa is not going to fix your concerns.