Fellow chief pilots, DFO's and HR people

[kingoftheskies]

Has our impersonal text message culture created a complete communication breakdown and caused us to completely forget exactly where we came from? Or is this surplus of pilots looking for jobs causing us to treat anyone without an ATPL and 1000 multi turbine like complete trash?

Remember, folks, if we don't treat these applicants with at least a little bit of dignity, and when the supply and demand curve shifts, YOUR company is going to be stuck with the bottom of the barrell because it will be THEM who are picking and choosing.

Do yourselves and your companies a favour- take 10 secs and respond. If you're too busy get someone else to do it.

[Ralliart]

"kingoftheskies".....nice

Right now is smack in the middle of prime season for many operators, especially the smaller ones where low time pilots would be most looking to get on.

If you have any experience working in a small op during the summer, you know it's pretty much balls to the wall from sun up to sun down, 14 hour days. The last thing on anyones mind at 2pm in the afternoon when your second or third aircraft has gone mechanical, and your already behind on the schedule, is to sit down and answer an e-mail adressed to "Chief Pilot" or "To Whom It May Concern" when you never put out a call for resumes in the first place.

Trust me, it's not that the majority of the companies you are applying to have no heart. They just don't have endless resources or time to devote to making sure each resume or job inquiry is responded to out of courtesy. Especially when this is the time of the year when many earn their keep.

Rather than continue carpet bombing their inbox, take some time and stop by in person and see for yourself what the daily enviroment is like.

[kingoftheskies]

Totally understood; answering emails from shareholders and board members isn't important either when you're needed in a jam, but unless you run like that 24 / 7, which then of course beckons the need for a managerial reassessment, there's no reason you couldn't toss out a little respect to a fellow flyer, a future captain.

If you're running 3 aircraft you probably have someone answering the phone that can type "We're not hiring but thank you for applying" I typed that in 2.5 seconds. Add .5 for the reply click. x 60 emails a day from desperate hungry pilots that equals 3 x 60 = 180 seconds / 60 = 3 minutes a day of carpet bombing retaliation. If one is running one's ship that tight then one should consider a career in knitting.

[mr.jinks]

I can understand a reply if there is an advertised position open. We just don't have the time to answer. I will however, answer a genuine person that wants this job and has done a little bit of research. If i can tell the resume is just a generic POS fired off to every company in the western hemisphere, it gets binned asap.

So maybe you need to be a little more genuine kingoftheskies and do a little research... and you won't get the cold shoulder. Oh, and quit whining on here about it, nobody feels sorry for you, we have all been there at some point.

[trey kule]

carpet bombing....what an apt description. and if I may add to it...

There are many reasons ads put in minimum requirements, yet it never stops some pilots from ignoring that and applying anyway...or ignoring the please dont call.

Most companies, even small ones dont want a telemarketing approach. They want to have a look at all the resumes that were sent in and then sort them out. If the ad says dont phone...dont....if the ad says these are hard minimums, please respect the company enough to not apply if you dont meet them.

You seem to think companies have nothing important to do with their time..they do. and they do not owe anyone who sends an unsolicited resume a response. You want respect from your fellow aviators..then earn it by showing them some.

Most companies nowadays acknowledge qualified applicants and the better ones advise a second time...but your posting would indicate to me you have no idea of how many unsolicited carpet bombings occur daily with companies.

[fish4life]

Remember, folks, if we don't treat these applicants with at least a little bit of dignity, and when the supply and demand curve shifts, YOUR company is going to be stuck with the bottom of the barrell because it will be THEM who are picking and choosing.

Supply and demand = right now if you don't have 1000 hours multi-turbine / ATPL you aren't very useful because chances are someone else applying does... Why not show up and apply in person for a ramp / dock job because like you said according to supply and demand thats a more appropriate position for the 250 hour wonder at the moment that way when the industry does turn around your first in line for the next job

[Meatservo]

I have met a couple of guys lately who have said "I remember you.. you were the chief at such-and-such airways when I applied there. You were nice to me and I appreciated it."

Guys do remember. I don't remember them particularly but it made me feel glad years later to hear I hadn't made enemies. I have heard some horror stories over the years and do feel some contempt for people who can't be bothered to be civil towards new guys.

[kingoftheskies]

None of the resumes this individual sent were unsolicited, save the 705 lottery tickets he put out (which were replied too!)

When I was a CP I replied to every candidate. It didn't take much of my day.

Oh, and quit whining on here about it, nobody feels sorry for you, we have all been there at some point.

That's the attitude. We're not even talking about me. We're talking about what I've seen. People like you are the reason we're in a spiral dive race to the bottom in this profession. But that's OK I'm sure you're all set right?

I have met a couple of guys lately who have said "I remember you.. you were the chief at such-and-such airways when I applied there. You were nice to me and I appreciated it."

Looks like someone interpreted my post correctly, thank you Meatservo.

[ditar]

While I fully agree with being courteous and respectful to those who come in search of work, I don't see how this is any different than applying for a job in any other industry. Most every job ad says something like "we thank you for applying but only those chosen for an interview will be contacted" or something to that effect. So if an employer only plans to contact you if they're interested when there is a job posting, what makes you think they must respond to everyone who applies for a position that might not even exist?

My solution to employment has never been "carpet bombing". Instead, I've chosen a couple of companies I'm interested in and developed a positive relationship with them.

[Invertago]

If you have time to argue on this avcanada thread, you have time to say "We're not hiring but thank you for applying"

[GTODD]

So let me get this straight Ralliart, it's 2pm and you have already had 2 or 3 aircraft in your small op go mechanical...and yet you still have time to be reading and replying to posts on avcanada?
Stop embaressing this industry, why don't you give guys like kingoftheskies the respect they deserve and acknowledge their application?...all it takes is a litle comment like "thanks for your interest, but we are not hiring right now"

[square]

Hehe, cute, but it's not required IMO.. I've gotten that kind of "We're fully staffed!" response before, a week prior to their posting job ads for all positions. I dunno, you fire off an email and you're making the minimum amount of effort you can to apply for a job. No one owes you a pat on the back.

[Tim]

But that's OK I'm sure you're all set right?

i think you hit the nail on the head with that one. the pure spite for low-time pilots is unbelievable.

[twinpratts]

Get over it guys... ask anybody who's ever applied for a flying job: it's the way it's ALWAYS been, and it's not about to change over a rant on Avcanada.

[Hawkerflyer]

Rather than continue carpet bombing their inbox, take some time and stop by in person and see for yourself what the daily enviroment is like.

Dont forget to network!

[kingoftheskies]

Get over it guys... ask anybody who's ever applied for a flying job: it's the way it's ALWAYS been, and it's not about to change over a rant on Avcanada.

Every paradigm shift in history required some form of discussion. And boy does aviation need one.

[RenegadeAV8R]

If you have time to argue on this avcanada thread, you have time to say "We're not hiring but thank you for applying"

+1


RenegadeAV8R

[Never Mind]

Looking for work, especially when you're 'hungry', always sucks. To be fair though employers don't necessarily HAVE TO respond if they don't want to. There can be many valid reasons for this.

Sorry guys that's the way it is. There are many aspects of this world which are impersonal and have the potential to minimize your efforts and experience, making you feel undervalued.

However, those who do take the time to acknowledge your resumé are showing you respect and are 'adorning', for lack of a better word, themselves and their company.

Never Mind

[trey kule]

Just to shift the topic a bit, what exactly is considered networking when it comes to looking for an aviation job?

And while I am at it. If I decide during my 15 coffee break twice a day to sit down and go through AvCanada, I should,according to some, stop that selfish use of my break time and reply to their unsolicited ( and for the most part unqualified) submissions?

[Ralliart]

GTODD

Re-read my writing. I did not say I had 2-3 aircraft go mechanical. I said if someone had their second (out of two total aircraft) or third (out of three total aircraft) go mechanical, while already busy with everything else that goes on behind the scenes, they likely have more important things to do that double check that inbox, or re-assign someone to monitor incomming resumes. It was supposed to give some perspective to those who might not receive the response they are looking for. A lot of people simply have no clue as to what goes on behind the scenes at small flight schools, mom & pop charter outfits, or seasonal float operators.

I do think it would be nice if every company could have an auto-reply function for the HR inbox that would at least let you know you're e-mail was received. Having been on the "sending" end of the equation, I know what it's like. But having also been on the "receiving end" when I was involved in that area, I can see how incomming e-mails are treated and how easy they are to go unnoticed when you barely have enough time to grab and sandwich or a smoke between flights.

For what it's worth, I am currently unemployed and have been sending some of the resumes I submit through e-mail. I have 4000tt, ATPL etc. and probably get a response from 1 or 2 out of 10. It's not a big deal.

[Expat]

I work in recruitment, and can tell you that we only contact the candidates that were short listed, and that will be called for an interview. Period.

[double-j]

I work in recruitment, and can tell you that we only contact the candidates that were short listed, and that will be called for an interview. Period.

Uh-oh, you shouldn't have said that. Now your inbox will be inundated with multiple 'friends' from avcanada soliciting requests for overseas employment. Probably most have no clue where you work!

LMAO!

jj

[Expat]

I work in recruitment, and can tell you that we only contact the candidates that were short listed, and that will be called for an interview. Period.

Uh-oh, you shouldn't have said that. Now your inbox will be inundated with multiple 'friends' from avcanada soliciting requests for overseas employment. Probably most have no clue where you work!

LMAO!

jj

Good one! For expats, the interview is done via phone. Salary in USD, without taxes...with a pension...offshore...
Worth the risk???

[mr.jinks]

I wasnt implying that i shit on low timers. All i was saying is, why would i send a pfo to a guy looking for a FO turbine gig, when we fly single engine seaplanes, its obvious this person put no thought or attention into who they were targeting and like other posters said, carpet bombed as many companies as possible. I also said that i take the time to respond to most people. I really do feel that this industry eats its young. Hell, im still one of 'em. I will do pretty much anything in my power to help out guys that need a gig. Hopefully they pay it forward.

[Gino Under]

kingoftheskies (Personal)
Generally speaking, hiring attitudes and practices in aviation across the globe (not just here in Canada) are disgusting. Especially the Pilot Recruitment agencies, they’re the worst of the lot, which is why you shouldn’t even waste your time with them. They are all dogs chasing the same cats.
It shouldn’t matter whether a company is recruiting or whether or not you’re simply applying to a vacancy or potential vacancy. Commercial operators at all levels maintain a deep contempt for pilots for many and varied reasons. That has more to do with why they don’t reply than whether or not they do. So it’s not surprising an applicant gets squat in return. I must say, some, not all, have the decency to respond to your resume whether solicited or not. They, unfortunately, are the exceptions rather than the rule. They’re the ones that deserve your interest and time investment.
HR departments worldwide are out of control and managing the recruitment of an occupation they know nothing about and don’t understand. Yet, they wield the big stick and management listens. Most Chief Pilots are dumb enough to go along with it cause they don’t know the first thing about the HR animal or its process, so no one should be surprised, should they?
The bean counters will tell you if they had to invest the time to write the letters, buy letterhead and envelops to put those letters in and pay for postage, it would cost them a fortune during such times of restraint. Breaks your heart, don’t it?
No company out there will give you a seconds notice of your pointing out the same issues, that maintaining your currency, IFR/PPC, medical, buying your own stamps, letterhead and envelops, long distance phone calls, internet charges, just to be qualified, current on type, with a valid PPC and IR, when they do start recruiting, are also a strain on your meager income.
Here’s the good news.
The day is rapidly approaching when the status quo will no longer apply. HR will have stamped most of us as UNSUITABLE or unqualified. Further diluting the potential applicant pool and worsening the shortage of qualified pilots. Most airlines today think things haven’t changed as far as staffing airplanes with pilots is concerned. The actual truth is, things have changed and are changing daily. There could very well be cancellation of orders and parking of airplanes. The sooner we all get that through our heads the sooner we’ll all be better off.
I quite agree with your remarks. Good post. Too bad you pulled your punches.
Cheers,
Gino Under