Responding to Cadors

[rottentomatoes]

I understand that normally it is FTU's responsibility to write a report for cador (when a response is required), but is there any chance that I (as a commercial student) could interact with TC directly in my case (given that I have a valid license and I was the pilot when the incident took place), my reason is that I don't trust certain people for reasons that I do not want to get into, I strongly felt that I need to protect my own interest in this case despite that I did screw up, I worked so hard for my license, don't want take any risk or have someone else type a report that doesn't reflect the truth, and get my license or flight test revoked. Is there anyway I could contact TC regarding my cador directly?

[tired of the ground]

Most flight school cadors become non events. The flight school usually says that the student is learning and we've reviewed the following procedures with the student to make sure the root problem is fixed.

If transport is not happy with that and they send it to enforcement then they will deal directly with you. Then you get to give your side of the story. I've seen some students do REALLY boneheaded things and just a briefing from the instructor was their get out of jail free card.

I wouldn't stress about it until they want to talk to you.

If it is such a big deal to you then just ask the CFI to see the report before they send it to transport to make sure there aren't any mistakes.

Also, don't worry about losing your license. IF it all went sideways and you did get violated it would be a fine, not your license.

[Shiny Side Up]

Out of curiousity, may we get a link to the CADOR?

[GTODD]

People like to make a big deal about CADORS around the water cooler, but as far as the student's future as a pilot goes they are usually not a big deal. I wouldn't get too upset about it.

[ywgflyboy]

Oh! Two experiences to speak of here....

1. I called up TC once regarding one about an aircraft flying across the Canadian border from North Dakota with no active flight plan (me). I was not calling specifically to clear that up (I was not the only one in the plane who heard transmissions to activate the fp) rather to express concern that on multiple occasions, whether it be Canada to US, or US to Canada, VFR flight plans were not being communicated effectively. I have twice now had to pull the plane into a hold before the border because my plan never got transmitted properly to the appropriate FIC.

2. Landed on a busy afternoon where the current controller was doing ground and tower with numerous aircraft inbound/outbound. Landed and asked him to close the flight plan (again with other people in the plane that overheard) but it wasn't done. Got a call at 11:00pm that evening saying search and rescue had been activated. This is when I started to piss my pants and wonder if I had really forgot. Then, with great thanks to whomever owns a radio receiver and a link to atc.net (or whatever it is) I actually was able to download that half hour of radio transmissions from when I landed and brought it to their attentions. It feels nice to be right.

CADORS are just a method to keeping somewhat important information data-based and a way to keep a few people at transport keyboard trained. Unless someone comes knocking on your door about it don't worry. They expect everyone to screw up a few times.

[FlaplessDork]

Don't forget that CADORs are not facts. They are preliminary reports. They can be completely wrong. We got pinned for busting a land and hold short once. Turns out it never even happened.

The school should get you to right your own report on the events. Keep your own copy of it. TC will call you directly if it is to go any further then the FTU. Just remember what you say to them can be used against you. Its better to let the FTU handle it, usually it will go no further if the school shows that they are proactive in dealing with it and preventing it from happening again.

[Ollie]

Keep in mind a CADOR is just an incident. If you blew a tire on landing, it could be written as a CADOR. An infraction on the other hand, is something that you could be talking to enforcement about. Any thing that you say to enforcement can be used in the investigation against you. So the case usually is the less you say the better, especially if you know that you screwed up.
I had an enforcement guy go after for me for an alleged infraction that occurred on a day that I wasn't even flying! Apparently they don't teach how to convert from zulu to local in enforcement school...

[Old Dog Flying]

Friggin' CADORS! Langley has the number one place for writting these things up and I got one about 3 months ago...along with a whole lot of other people. In my case the jerk in the glass cage decided that I was following traffic too closely (with at least a mile seperation and same speed) and pulled me up. I had a fouled set of plugs from running at too low a power setting for too long and could not get full power on the go around. The aircraft was at gross and with the reduced power I could not get to 1000' by the time I turned downwind so the prick filed a CADORS for not following published circuit procedures.

The subsequent discussion with TC/GA sparked an investigation and I intend to go for the jugular.

[Oor Wullie]

As a student, be apologetic when talking/writing about the incident, especially to TC. Do not make excuses why or why you didn't do something. There is nothing worse than following an excuse with a reason for doing something. It voids the apology. TC will otherwise see it as a learning experience, file the incident and walk away.

[rottentomatoes]

As a student, be apologetic when talking/writing about the incident, especially to TC. Do not make excuses why or why you didn't do something. There is nothing worse than following an excuse with a reason for doing something. It voids the apology. TC will otherwise see it as a learning experience, file the incident and walk away.

I did, explained why it happened and how I would avoid such situation in the future, except that the CFI ignored my report, and wrote something in his own words that didn't necessarily reflect what I said. I mean that's why I post this in the first place, I thought this might happen, and it did. I talked to a few people, and if enforcement contacts me, I will tell them exactly what happened.

[GottaFly]

Langley has the number one place for writting these things up and I got one about 3 months ago

I was surprised to see you in there...... On second thought, I think they always have an AOR and a pen in hand ready for someone to "screw up". I got one a few months ago when completing a runup for an IFR flight, i taxied from the runup bay to the hold short line and got yelled at for taxiing on the taxiway.... During my call for taxi they told me to "taxi to the runup bay for rwy 19" instead of the usual, "taxi runway 19 via Bravo". There wasn't a plane in the control zone at the time and no conflict existed. In my opinion i feel a simple verbal reminder would have been a more effective way of communicating the error instead of me finding out a few days later when the CADOR slid across the desk.

To reflect what others are saying, CADORS are NOT a big deal. TC will be more interested in seeing the program that the FTU has in place to prevent similar incidents in the future than fining you. In my 3 years as an instructor i've seen some pretty stupid things done by students and never seen a violation or even anything going to enforcement.

Don't worry!

[patter]

I kinda miss the olden days on this. When you or your student made a boo boo, they called you, or came down with a recording and debriefed it.
The CADORs today are so subjective. Especially if the towers are not giving up the actual recordings. There is bias in that. If you know you made a boo boo, write some notes as soon as you can after. And keep them to yourself. There is always more to it than the CADOR, write down what happened in the lead up to the CADOR as well.

[SAR_YQQ]

i taxied from the runup bay to the hold short line and got yelled at for taxiing on the taxiway...

Sorry for the silly question - does Langley have a tower?

[Old Dog Flying]

SAR-YQQ: Yes there is a tower at Langley and many of the guys are great to work with but it only takes one or two controllers with the proverbial "chip" to turn things into dung in a hurry.

[industrypolice]

The guy in Timmins is also Cador happy. Dont worry about it, it means nothing and just chaulk it up as a learning experience.

[Louis]

Rottentomatoes: Look at the CADORs that worries you. Go at the bottom, in the "Detail information" section. Does the line "Further Action Required:" read "NO"? If so, no worries, it's not supposed to go any further. Its mostly kept on record to look out for recurrent safety issues and trends.

If it reads "YES" then you, or the school, may get a call from TC. If you really feel like you need to state something to TC (at the risk of stirring the pot and potentially triggering TC action where there may have been none) then the O.P.I (Office of Primary Interest???) would be the TC department to contact at your regional office.