http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/08/13/the- ... agonist/2/

Deluce quoted in Macleans

Air Canada’s return to the island promises further hits to Porter’s bottom line. But Deluce still has one more ace up his sleeve. Since he owns the terminal and associated equipment, he is now the airport’s de facto landlord (he says he’s currently negotiating with Air Canada to lease space in the terminal). “If you really look at the airline industry, the people who own the infrastructure and the ones who run the (aircraft) leasing companies—they’re the ones who really make the money,” says Lazar. “The airlines, by and large, are lucky if they break even.”

Which means Deluce could still come out on top, even if Porter ultimately loses its long battle with Air Canada. No wonder he chose a pest—Mr. Porter the raccoon—as his airline’s mascot.

I'm sure those looking to buy into his IPO are now going to run to the bank to see how much they can borrow

IMO the smart thing to do is price AC to the moon for leasing fees, which they will still pay undoubtedly.

If they're going to try and push him out of the market he built on his own then at least make them pay for it.

I'm not anti AC but they had their chance at building the island and didn't.

AC has a long history of trying to push others out of their market instead of concentrating on their own, and showing some creativity... And so it continues



I do like the reference to the racoon thought...

Maybe Celebrity Cruises should be annoited with the exclusive use of the Vancouver cruise ship docking facility by the Feds, and then they can charge all the other cruise operators what ever they feel like to use the facility, even though it sits on taxpayer owned property...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... le1166252/

Emirates, Air Canada clash over access

Mr. Galimberti declined comment, but Capt. Wilson said Air Canada wants to keep a lid on Emirates' Toronto-Dubai A380 service at three times a week. Air Canada also opposes the foreign airline's growth strategy into Western Canada, perhaps three or four departures a week from Calgary and Vancouver. Longer term, Emirates envisages two daily departures from Toronto.

"This would have a direct impact on Air Canada and the Canadian economy," Capt. Wilson said. "This is not a good time to be adding this kind of pressure on Air Canada right now. It's a very bad time. We all know that Air Canada is having financial difficulties."

Anyone see the irony in this?

You can't charge them through the moon as that is anti competitve, unless Porter wants to go back to court.

As for the airline vs the holding company it's no different than ACE and AC. REGCO makes money, Porter loses. Guess who owns REGCO.

REGCO makes money, Porter loses. Guess who owns REGCO.

a tried and proven plan .........

Air Atonabee "doing" business as City Express.......(now just a shadow next to the new Porter terminal)

Yawn........

So many comments from so many interested people.......

Yawn.....

Nevermind all the Companies doing "work" for Jetsgo.. no connection whatsoever to Leblanc.

Deluce didn't say any of the quoted text. Mr. Lazar is the one making the comment on infrastructure ownership.

teacher wrote:As for the airline vs the holding company it's no different than ACE and AC. REGCO makes money, Porter loses. Guess who owns REGCO

The difference is that the IPO was (and will be) for Porter Aviation Holdings which includes the terminal, the aircraft leasing company, and the airline.

ACE and AC is all about maximizing the shareholder value for ACE.

So there's no way that after the IPO, they could want to "unlock shareholder value" and spin off everything?

How about AC's way back on to the island is a CPA with Porter?

I'm guessing. But it makes a lot of sense considering Porters present situation, and AC's issues with regional feed moving forward. The price tag. The risk associated with it consolidated in one company. As the almost strike pointed out very vividly.

It would instantly give a pop to Porters valuations and give AC back the market it is worried about.

Anyone have a good reason why not?

Porter can point to the CPA with Jazz and say we want similar profit margins. If not, no deal and they're back to square one. Two schools of thought: 1. Porter has the upper hand, considering it has a current monopoly at the island and the majority of all future slots or 2. Deluce and the investors want to see returns, in which case they go for whatever could generate the airline profits.. even if that means taking peanuts to get the added traffic.

If you are talking margins, which CPA's are generally based on, AC can provide that easily with Porters cost structure and still be very cost effective.

Again. Just spit balling.

Why?

Cost. Diversification.

But you are correct that could be accomplished though carriers other than Porter. Just figured they are already doing it. Why not? It would turn into a Continental code share on the spot as well.

Again. total. complete. Spit ballin. I just see the possibility of opportunity for both.

I see you deleted your post between the time I read it and responded.

After posting it I decided I didn't want to get into this one. Had nothing to do with what I wrote. C ya.

Brick Head wrote:How about AC's way back on to the island is a CPA with Porter?

I'm guessing. But it makes a lot of sense considering Porters present situation, and AC's issues with regional feed moving forward. The price tag. The risk associated with it consolidated in one company. As the almost strike pointed out very vividly.

It would instantly give a pop to Porters valuations and give AC back the market it is worried about.

Anyone have a good reason why not?

AC would have to buy 20+ aircraft worth of lift (that are flying around half empty) on a fully utilised basis. Too much lift for YTZ and no need for redeployed domestic lift as AC is already commercially committed to Jazz for 15 Q400's worth of fleet substitutions.

rudder wrote:
AC would have to buy 20+ aircraft worth of lift (that are flying around half empty) on a fully utilised basis. Too much lift for YTZ and no need for redeployed domestic lift as AC is already commercially committed to Jazz for 15 Q400's worth of fleet substitutions.

Rudder,

Yes I get that. I doubt the Q400 commitment will change. They are part of the CASM reduction AC needs out of Jazz.

But AC could still have a CPA with Porter for just a few aircraft on specific routes. Porter could do what it wants with the other fins. It happens in the US. However if Porters most profitable routes are in the Triangle?. Then a triangle only CPA wouldn't likely be appealing to them.

Like I said I was just making a wild ass guess at who will do the triangle flying. The thread is after all "Porters real reason for existence". Whether AC will use this situation to start diversifying feed who knows. In my mind Porter could very well be choice number one. But yes perhaps there are reasons it couldn't work.

I have my doubts that AC could compete with Porters cost structure using Jazz. If AC comes to the same conclusion then it becomes a question of who they get into bed with.

We all know, or at least should, diversification is as important to AC's future as it is to Jazz's.

But again. Wild Ass guess as to who what or when.

Cheers.

It is done and it isn't Porter.

rudder wrote:It is done and it isn't Porter.

Really? How do you know who? How do you know it is done?

Are we even talking about the same thing?

And no I don't mean ACPA will operate the Q400's. Yeah I heard that rumor. I just laughed.

Or is that it. You are just saying the 15 Q400's to jazz is a done deal?

I'm not following. What is it, that you think is done?

Brick Head wrote:

rudder wrote:It is done and it isn't Porter.

Really? How do you know who? How do you know it is done?

Are we even talking about the same thing?

And no I don't mean ACPA will operate the Q400's. Yeah I heard that rumor. I just laughed.

Or is that it. You are just saying the 15 Q400's to jazz is a done deal?

I'm not following. What is it, that you think is done?

You will find out at the upcoming road show.

The only carrier I can think of would be Continental Express. I believe they were awarded a similar # of slots as Jazz. Air Canada could use a combination of Jazz and Continental Express on the island through the Star Alliance. But that is just code sharing, not a CPA. Am I warm, rudder?

hithere wrote:The only carrier I can think of would be Continental Express. I believe they were awarded a similar # of slots as Jazz. Air Canada could use a combination of Jazz and Continental Express on the island through the Star Alliance. But that is just code sharing, not a CPA. Am I warm, rudder?

Could be a possibility. Which means Colgan and AC can combine their slots which would allow more efficient use of them. Colgan can sell some capacity to Continental and Air Canada for some tranborder runs while AC uses their slots for domestic runs.
I have no clue in regards to legalities for using a non-domestic based feeder operation but it would be interesting.

Gentleman,

I wouldn't read much into the comments between Rudder and myself. I don't think we were talking about the same issue. His "done" comment clarified it for me. Although he has peaked my interest as to what I will find out at the next road show.

For clarification though. The slots went to Continental and AC. If you remember Jazz dropped the lawsuit at the end of March.

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/827466

The port authority says that a consulting firm it hired to evaluate landing slots at the airport has allocated 44 new slots to Porter Airlines, 30 to Air Canada and 16 to Continental.

I know Georgian was asked to bid on the AC island Q400 flying but did not get it. Have also heard Skyservice business put in a bid as well. Seems AC might be adding another CPA partner. This all relates to the recent ACPA meltdown over scope and the apparent need for imminent changes to the CA as requested by the company, something interesting is in the works for the island flying I think.