The damn centerline!!!!

[C-150Pilot]

On my soft field takeoffs and landings I'm not able to keep it on the friken centerline!!!!! With the reduced visibility of keeping the nose off the ground I cant see shit and always go left of the centerline( wonder why Im not going right of it)... Imgine if I started flying taildraggers!!!
I guess all I have to do is practice!

[C-150Pilot]

BTW, since I might rent a 172 next time, does anyone know the differences in between the Cessna 150 and the Cessna 172 other then its more powerful, has 4 seats, and more intuments.....Is it heavy on the controls?

Cheers,

[sakism]

On the take-off, don't get the nose so high. It only has to be high enough to get the nose wheel off the ground - one inch off the ground is fine. Anything more does nothing but ....reduce forward visibility. Get your instructor to lower the tail by hand while you sit at the controls so you can see the attitude necessary to achieve this.

[Cat Driver]

When the nose is raised to high to see the centerline either on take off or landing the best method of maintaining centerline is to move your head sideways so as to be able to see more of the runway edge ahead of you.

That is what one must do in a taildragger and it works exactly the same in a Cessna bug smasher.

Cat

[Pugster]

always go left of the centerline

Just add a little more right rudder on the roll - I suspect as well that the nose is getting a bit high on you - which in itself isn't really too much of an issue - if you follow Cat's advice and crane your head to the side a bit to judge alignment.

Probably the best advice you could get is your own...practice!

Pugster

[KAG]

If you can’t see at least some of the runway ahead of you, your nose is too high, if you cant see its hard to track the center line.
Start with the control column full aft and as you speed up (feel the nose get light) reduce some of the backpressure. As soon as the nose starts to come off, push forward (release more backpressure) until the nose (dash board) is around 3 fingers below the far edge of the runway and apply or release control inputs as required to keep it there. This will give you a good nose up attitude while still affording good forward visibility.

For practice on getting the handle on how to master the feel of “wheeling”, take your instructor and go on a longer runway and at reduced power practice wheeling down the runway. Also when landing don’t let the nose touch the ground until aerodynamically it lowers itself. Care must be taken when trying any of these techniques in any crosswind, and don’t strike the tail – a good rule of thumb is if you cant see the end of the runway, your nose is too high.
Once you get the hang of it, you will be able to do a Soft field touch and go without letting the nose touch the ground (and without dragging the tail)

Cheers.

[BTD]

Another factor why you always go left could be because of the asymetric yaw from the down going blade pulling harder on the air then the up going blade. Same reason you need more right rudder when in slow flight with the same power setting as level flight.

The higher the nose for the same power setting in level altitude flight the more right rudder you'll need.

Maybe just one factor??

[Shiny Side Up]

Part of the problem I always find with some students in the soft field is they don't get enough practice in the relevant excersise of slow flight before hand. If you can tweak the aircraft's altitude in this configuration - its the same thing in the soft field landing. Being able to peg a heading in slow flight means you should be able to keep her straight on the runway during t/o and landing.

[ahramin]

All this experience on this forum and no one sees the obvious.

Put a phone book under you ass short stuff.

[Flap]

Seriously, not sitting up high enough can make a huge difference. My landings are always flat and sucky when I dont' have the seat cranked up high enough. Especially in the 172. Borrow/buy yourself a good set of cushions if you can't see enough. No shame in it. I know guys who use three cushions.

[zaac]

It only has to be high enough to get the nose wheel off the ground - one inch off the ground is fine. Anything more does nothing but ....reduce forward visibility.

I use to think that too but found out it's not true.

I was on a short, rough grass strip on a 30+ deg day. I was accelerating with the nose just of the ground but at about 40-45K(can't remember exactly) the airspeed was hardly increasing at all and the airplane(172) wouldn't fly. I had to abort or try more back pressure. I tried back pressure and was soon in ground effect and accelerating again.

Point is, on a strip with more drag than on pavement it's better to get in the air soon as possible. You need more angle of attack to do this therefore nose higher than an inch off the ground.

That was my experience anyway.

[loadshed]

sounds like your nose is too high. - & anticipate the need for right rudder when adding power on the roll.

[Right Seat Captain]

sounds like your nose is too high.

Isn't every pilot's nose too high?

[scotothedoublet]

Chicks dig wheelies...use your peripheral vision.

[mculshaw]

nice one right seat captain

[bee tee]

.....Is it heavy on the controls?

Cheers,

No, not at all. Also worth to note that I'm a pinner (I don't weightlift much).

Good luck with the 172.

[Blue Side Down]

Use the vertical pedal on the right... if the centerline remains to the right, push it harder. For reference, try looking out the window to your 10:30- 11:00 position. Watch the spacing between some point on the aircraft and the edge of the runway- if that space is getting smaller- more right rudder- if it gets bigger, less right rudder. This is the one of the techniques used in the Cub (back seat), Pitts, etc. A Citabria actually has very good visibility I find- much much better than the 150 at least- probably to do with the tandem style seating (symmetrical peripheral vision).

**Always consult with your instructor first, though, before taking any online advice

The 172 is a dog compared to the 150... the Caravan is a dog compared to the 172... the bigger it gets the slower it moves (generally). But, the 172 is a breeze to handle- it might help, though, to spin in a few cranks of trim (up) during the flare.


Edited to correct late night stupidity.

[Cat Driver]

O.K I see this conversation is still going on so here is a suggestion that will solve a lot of problems.

Get a couple of hours in a tail wheel airplane.

(1) That will improve your ability to control and understand yaw on the runway.

(2) That will improve your ability to control and understand pitch on the runway.

Cat

[wha happen]

with regards to the question obout the a/c handling of 150 vs 172 and the ceaviness of the controls. It depends on which model 172 we are talking about, the N model and newer are far heavier on the controls than the M or earlier.

[3juggs]

The biggest difference between the C-172 and the C-150 diffinitly is control pressure required and control response. The C-150 is far more responsive and fun to fly than the C-172 when you want to yank and bank partly due to it being lighter and less stable ie: less dihedral. It also spins alot faster than the C-172 The C-172 is a much better aircraft for those long cross-countries, you get there quicker so the cost works out to be roughly the same as the C-150 give or take a couple of bucks which is worth it for your passenger comfort when you are at 5180 ft Between the C-172M and the C-172N you will find the landing gear of the M model more narrow and less forgiving for crosswind landing if you have poor crosswind technique but with that said a easier aircraft to grease in when the wind is down the pipe. The C-172N feels much heavier and it never hurts to use a little trim during take-off or landing. Soft field T/O and landings are one of those exercises that takes alot of practice. If the runway you are flying off is long enough don't worry about the touchdown point right away, work on the landing attitude, the goal is not to hold the nose off two feet, just to hold it off. When you get good at that then work on your precision after. A good circuit leads to a good approach, which leads to a good landing. You may have to start from the circuit spacing or the approach before you see your landings improve

[Cat Driver]

" A good circuit leads to a good approach, which leads to a good landing. You may have to start from the circuit spacing or the approach before you see your landings improve "

Yes and to fine tune that statement the best approach to make landing easier is the constant angle of bank curving approach to the flare...

That really makes landings a lot easier...sadly most airport traffic issues do not allow you to use that method.

Cat

[ScudRunner]

Point of advice to noobs out there if possible learn on a Taildragger.

I did (and im not older than dirt) every AC after that was a peice of cake to fly. And you'll have fun putting your ". Yeager" friends in it and watch them dance all over the place.

I know its hard to find a school out their with taildrager but its worth the extra effort

[Blue Side Down]

(...juggs)

Um , the last time I checked, I think it was 5280ft. It sure would suck to be 100 feet short of the club For futrue reference...

[3juggs]

Oh yeah, 5280ft sounds more like it Oh well, you know what they say, practice makes perfect

[Dyck Hertz]

i now this one isntructor who says to his students who dont land on the c-line that he's going to cut their balls off. no kidding about this guys....allthough he jokes about this i gues it really works