Edenvale Fatal Crash - Nov 12

[C-FABH]

I have received reports of a crash just west of the Edenvale Aerodrome property. Two fatalities have been confirmed by attending emergency services. All the info for now, I will post more as it becomes available.

[bizjets101]

No update, just a couple of Edenvale Aerodrome links.

http://www.edenflight.com/

http://www.ourairports.com/airports/CNV8/

[cdnpilot77]

I was just there. A Cherokee, I believe it was, took off just ahead of us with a man and woman on board, wonder if it was them, there were some ultralights and a 172 in the area as well. There was also 1 coming in when we departed, didn't get the type. Monitored the freq for quite a while but didn't hear anything. We took off at about 1445

[C-FABH]

via the Barrie Examiner:

http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/Articl ... ?e=2843985

SPRINGWATER TWP. — Provincial police have confirmed two men were killed in a plane crash near the Edenvale Aerodrome Friday afternoon.

The plane, which crashed into a farmer's field on 12/13 Sideroad Sunnidale, has been covered with a tarp. There was fire on impact, according to police.

An eyewitness called authorities at 2:59 p.m. to report the crash.

The Edenvale Aerodrome is located on Highway 26 between Barrie and Stayner.

Transportation Safety Board officials are en route.

More details to come.

[kp1]

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/ ... ntoNewHome

[bizjets101]

C-IIQO registered as serial number 001 as a Merlin Nova Ultralight.

Registered to a private residence at Gamble and Yonge Street in NE Richmond Hill.
Civil Register states aircraft based Barrie area.

CTV Toronto photo

C-IIQO.jpg (75.91 KiB) Viewed 7434 times

From CTV news link in previous post.

[cdnpilot77]

I watched that ultralight take off while I was eating lunch. Another tragedy, my condolences to the families.

[Heliian]

News reports now saying it was an engineer(not an a/c one) from Magna and an instructor pilot out on a clear calm day, a/c appears to have stalled and spun in. Tragic but that's one of the risks when you fly a homebuilt.

[AirFrame]

Tragic but that's one of the risks when you fly a homebuilt.

Riiiight. Because certified aircraft *never* spin.

[Hedley]

that's one of the risks when you fly a homebuilt

Correction: from the registration, we can tell that this was an ultralight, NOT an amateur-built aeroplane as Transport so quaintly refers to fixed-wing, general aviation aircraft, which may have a standard category certificate of airworthiness (or not).

They are different categories of aircraft, like helicopter, glider, airship, etc.

[Moose47]

Here's the latest CTV update including a photo of the late pilot in his aircraft.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/ ... me&cid=tor

[CpnCrunch]

that's one of the risks when you fly a homebuilt

Correction: from the registration, we can tell that this was an ultralight, NOT an amateur-built aeroplane as Transport so quaintly refers to fixed-wing, general aviation aircraft, which may have a standard category certificate of airworthiness (or not).

They are different categories of aircraft, like helicopter, glider, airship, etc.

The news story says it was a homebuilt ultralight (of course they could be wrong). Ultralights can, of course, be factory built or homebuilt. The latter do tend to have significantly more structural failures than certified, factory built aircraft, but we don't know if that was a factor in this case.

[Brize]

I was shocked when I saw the photo. I remember when this A/C was being built in Springwater on Ann St. in Barrie about 5 years ago. It had an interesting low power Rotax engine being put in it at the time and reminded me of a Katana DV20 except even more fragile. I always wondered who would be brave enough to get in it, especially on it's maiden flight.

I could be ALL wrong though and have the wrong A/C in mind, at the time, it didn't even have a registration. It might just be a coincidence that Edenvale is only a few miles away from Springwater.

[Heliian]

Tragic but that's one of the risks when you fly a homebuilt.

Riiiight. Because certified aircraft *never* spin.

Not saying that, I'm saying that the a/c in question has not had extensive test flights proving flight characteristics and no one with enough experience on type to learn from. Judging by the design, I would say a possible stall of the tail.

[burhead1]

When i first heard of the accident i thought it might have been someone who experienced a heart attack or something of the sort. I was doing circuits in Midland, there was someone in the circuit at edenvale making his calls and saying he was landing at collingwood, Someone called him and said you mean edanvale, he said "om ya wait a ya landing edenvale" I thought wow you ok? I wondered if someone was confused, I hear people get confused and do weird things before they experience a heart attack. I was doing circuits 13:30 to 14:30
Unfortunatly sounds like it stalled or may have had a problem with the tail?

As for the coment of certified a/c and stalls and spins ?? all i can say is what? a stall is a stall don't matter what yer driving if you too low not something you want to be in.

[Jungle Jim]

Guys,

You are both right. This plane was registered as an amateur built aircraft when it crashed the first time a couple of years ago with the same instructor pilot at the controls. It was rebult, sort of ,over the past couple of years and was re-registered as an ultrlight after it was pointed out that it would not pass an inspection by either TC or an MDRA rep. Apparently ultralights don't have to be inspected. It has been flying most of the summer while they were working out bugs with items such as :

left wing heavy
fuel tanks leaking
exhaust variations with respect to muffler
Carb sync issues
elevator control system was not right
extremely high oil temps
low oil pressure

As recent as a month ago I spoke to the instructor pilot and he was still having issues with the one wing being heavy.

After the rebuild they asked me to test fly the plane and when I refused and pointed out a few issues, I was quickly told where to go.

They were both nice guys and did not deserve to go like this but, I wasn't surprised to hear of this accident.

Jim

[MUSKEG]

Man I look at the ongoing issues this A/C had and I wonder what thought process must one have to strap your ass into that and go flying. This happens often in our country but is an epidemic in the USA. Some of the mods they do in AK are unbelievable. Such a tragedy for those who have to pick up their lives and try to move on. Where is the balance between calculated risk and unnecessary risk? I guess if risks were not taken man would never have gone to the moon and back. My sincere condolances to all involved.

[AirFrame]

Not saying that, I'm saying that the a/c in question has not had extensive test flights proving flight characteristics and no one with enough experience on type to learn from.

The same could be said for the Airbus A380. If you weren't trying to slag *all* amateur-built aircraft with your comment, you might want to choose your words a bit more closely next time.

[bizjets101]

I believe statistics slag all amateur built aircraft;

http://www.jetwhine.com/2010/02/the-int ... accidents/

When I saw on the news John Walton who at the time of his fatal amateur built aircraft crash - was the 11th richest man on earth and a long time Learjet pilot - he had re-installed a very important bolt in reverse - which caused a crash on take-off.

Sorry but I'll take a factory built GA aircraft anytime.

Current 2009 stats show amateur built aircraft suffer a crash rate 9 times greater than all factory produced GA aircraft, and in accidents you are twice as likely to be fatally injured in a amateur built aircraft than a factory produced GA aircraft.

[fish4life]

Not saying that, I'm saying that the a/c in question has not had extensive test flights proving flight characteristics and no one with enough experience on type to learn from.

The same could be said for the Airbus A380. If you weren't trying to slag *all* amateur-built aircraft with your comment, you might want to choose your words a bit more closely next time.

how could the same be said for the A380 it had to do flight testing and the pilots never went in there cold not knowing what to expect they did many hours in a simulator

[Heliian]

I realize that aviation would not be here today if it wasn't for amateur-built a/c, but over the last 100 years, we have developed manufacturing processes and techniques that are certified and reliable. I once wanted to build my own airplane but I quickly realized that if I wanted a useful and more economical plane, I could just buy a normal cat one. There are some really good kits out there and some really shitty ones. Whatever your choice, fasten your seatbelts and fly safe.

[bizjets101]

I realize there are home built amateur builders that are very serious and passionate about their aircraft - then there are yahoos; http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/10 ... cratch.php all aboard!!!!

[AirFrame]

how could the same be said for the A380 it had to do flight testing and the pilots never went in there cold not knowing what to expect they did many hours in a simulator

Do you think the first A380 that flew had no teething pains? Sure it did. I agree that the first flight of an A380 was at the hands of someone who had done it before in a simulator, but i'm sure there were issues after that first flight that needed resolving. It looks like this particular homebuilt aircraft had a snag sheet that the builder was working through. There's no indication (yet) that any one of these items contributed to the crash. I hope the TSB has time to look into this one and find out for sure.

I believe statistics slag all amateur built aircraft;
http://www.jetwhine.com/2010/02/the-int ... accidents/

The article hints that homebuilts are largely built without inspections, checks, and balances that would catch errors in construction. That's more true in the US, where aircraft only receive a "final" inspection once it's ready to fly. In Canada, each component is checked and signed off before it's closed, and then checked and signed off again afterwards. It's a rather involved process.

Current 2009 stats show amateur built aircraft suffer a crash rate 9 times greater than all factory produced GA aircraft, and in accidents you are twice as likely to be fatally injured in a amateur built aircraft than a factory produced GA aircraft.

I'll grant that some amateur-built aircraft are less crash-survivable than their certified counterparts. But strictly speaking, none of the small piston singles were really designed for crash worthiness, beyond what the CAR's/FAR's require. To add additional crash structure just adds weight, and weight is the enemy in light aircraft design. Cirrus is the only company i'm aware of making an airplane with "crash protection" -- in the form of a ballistic parachute -- and that hasn't exactly been a 100% success either.

What the statistics don't show is the cause of the accidents. Is it likely that any of these incidents are caused by the same factors that bring down factory produced GA aircraft? Sure it is. CFIT, VFR into IMC, etc. are issues that don't care whether you're in a Cessna or a Joe Bloggs Model 1. And the laws of physics don't care what you're flying either... You can pull the wings off a Cessna or a homebuilt just as easily if you start pushing limits. So the numbers are 9x higher for homebuilts? Maybe that just means that the type of people who build or buy homebuilts are the type of people who are used to pushing limits, and sometimes those limits bite them in the *ss, through no fault of the aircraft itself.

[Heliian]

You really could have found a better example than the A380 or any other modern commercial airliner that's been through computer modeling, small scale wind tunnel testing, large scale wind tunnel testing, construction by a leading aerospace manufacturer and has multiple redundant systems and was test flown by test pilots.

[bizjets101]

Crash update;

Police report the aircraft had departed Barrie's Springwater Airpark, witnesses said the aircraft was flying East, and crash site is located just South of Highway 26, near Side Road 12/13 - in a field - just short of the runway. Aircraft had been performing touch and goes at Edenvale.

Google Maps showing Highway 26, Side Road 12/13, Runway 08.

Also the press have identified the passenger as 48 year old Leroy Simpson - of Brampton who held a instructor rating.

Click Here Barrie Examiner update - states aircraft had been in a previous accident due to fuel starvation.