So you want to be a flying instructor

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SuperchargedRS
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by SuperchargedRS »

Beefitarian wrote:....but I don't know if there's any work in the US right now. ....
There is,

resume+handshake+good stick and rudder+pleasant= job
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by wotai139 »

Wow! Some very good information here. The instructor rating is something I am strongly considering getting right after I get my CPL.
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by jg24 »

Very good post, thanks for sharing.
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flyingmaverick
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by flyingmaverick »

Instruction is not just a job but a responsibility , to train future pilots and its on the shoulders of instructors to carry forward the spirit of aviation.

When I was doing my instructor rating , I had an instructor who was sloppy as hell and always shouted on students . Even the students use to joke do turn into your instructor once you are done . The worst part was he always thought of himself as a top gun trainer .

As the reputation spread no body joined the school and many students who came from India just went to other schools . To make things worst the school and the instructor has been black listed here in India . There may be school that are recommended but this is the only one school that people warn not to join .

Of course some one on this forum specifically asked about that CFI and school and the moderator asked me not to tell the truth as it damages some ones business .

Moral of story be a good instructor or else don't even try , you will lose reputations and your business and other than Avcanada in other forums your truth will be discussed
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MissKonception
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by MissKonception »

There seems to be a pretty good variety of people on this thread so I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for reference materials. I'm just starting my rating now and I have the FIG and the Flight Instructor's Manual (by an author I can't remember). I love teaching and I love learning so I'm always on the lookout for good textbooks for any CPL info and now for the instructor rating. Suggestions?
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trey kule
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by trey kule »

First find a book on how to communicate without using acronyms :smt040 Your new student walking into the flight school will look for a bowl of fruit if you tell them to get a FIG. CPL...thats a military rank abbreviation?
This is tongue in cheek of course, but please think about your students' inability to comprehend pilot speak.

Which brings me to the serious part. Go to the local university or college book store and find reference material on how to teach. Instructors dont need to know the wing tip coriolis magnetic swirl theory of drag, but they do need to be able to teach the basis...Stick and Rudder is supposed to be a good book...

It saddens me when I read posts where people are trying to choose between the ramp and instructing.
If you are thinking about it, please do the industry a favor and choose the ramp..We need instructors who want to instruct, not just figure the fastest way to build time to move on.

Best of luck in 2013 to all those that are becoming instructors who are not considering it the first step towards the right seat of a bigger plane.
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MissKonception
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by MissKonception »

Ah but anyone who is likely to be able to answer my question on reference materials would be familiar with the acronyms;) I've worked ramp at a flight school for over a year so I get a chance to talk to people at literally every level of flying experience on a weekly basis. It's tons of fun and the best part of the job. Thanks for the tip on Stick and Rudder.
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by Class 1 Instructor »

As a broad generalization the 2 areas of weakness I see in new CPL's who want to be instructors are:

1) An almost total lack of practical knowledge about anything mechanical/electrical. Kas Thomas has an excellent book called "Fly The Engine" that should be IMO required reading for anyone operating a piston engine. There is also tons of excellent information on the web. I would start with the columns section on Avweb. As for the electrical side I would suggest that you go to the C 172 POH and have a look at the electrical system schematic. Since this is about as simple a system as you will ever see you should be able to describe the function of every device/symbol listed on the diagram. If you can't google is your friend.

2) The rule set that governs your flying is contained in the CAR's. There is IMO a shameful lack of even the most basic understanding of the aviation regulatory framework in many instructors. Start with the home page and read the "About Cars" and General Information about the CARs" tabs and then go through the CAR's so that you have a general idea of what information is in each section. The same with the AIM, you don't have to memorize it but you should know how it is laid out and what section you would start at to look something up.

Finally I would go through the TSB aviation accident database and see what mistakes are actually bending metal and killing people. Then think about your PPL and CPL training and ask yourself "what seems to be common causes of accidents that never got covered in my training". That way when it comes time to prepare your lesson plans you can look for ways to incorporate prevention strategies for the more common mistakes.
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by Colonel Sanders »

I would be happy if a prospective flight instructor could:

1) draw a Cl vs AOA curve
2) draw a Cd vs AOA curve
3) write down the lift equation
4) write down the kinetic energy equation
5) write down the potential energy equation

and apply the above very basic physics to what a student
does in an airplane.

PS Lack of mechanical & electrical knowledge probably bothers
me more than a lack of regulatory knowledge. No one knows
what the rules regarding aviation are in Canada. Even the simplest
question quickly devolves into a metaphysics discussion conducted
by a Monty Python reunion.
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by 1000 HP »

What is the normal wage for a Class 4 instructor these days? I just saw an school offering $17 per flying hour (minimum doe). So if you come in to work, and fly 2 hours, you make $34? I taught under a similar program in 1987, but made $14 per flying hour. Some days I made nothing. In 6 months I flew 700 hrs, for $9800. Not completely horrible 26 years ago. Luckily my wife had a good job and there where no children yet...

Service rigs start rig piggies at $23 hr, overtime after 10, and a company vehicle will pick you up at your house, and drop you off. An average rig piggy works 14 hrs a day, for $368 day, and can easily make $75,000 the first year. That would pay for a lot of flight training so you could skip instructing all together. :rolleyes:
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by North Shore »

Sure, but no-one calls instructors 'Cessna Pigs', and I'll lay dollars to doughnuts that most little boys and girls don't dream about becoming rig pigs when they grow up...
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by 1000 HP »

True :lol:
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pelmet
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by pelmet »

My experiences in the last couple of months with instructors has been poor to good but overall marginal. Keep in mind that I am an airline guy but have kept flying small airplanes at the same time.

I have been on a binge and done 5 separate checkouts all in aircraft that I was familiar with in past flying. What I am looking for is an instructor who is good at explaining things and knowledgeable about a wide range of subjects and will on their own go over a bunch of subjects and items.

My first two were in a 150 and 172 at the same location which shall remain nameless. While the 150 guy showed me all the relevant details of stuff to do on the ground such as signing out and checking the logbook, there seemed to be feeling of I must already know everything because I am an airline guy and he wants to be an airline guy so I am cool and know it all. But, I would like someone to keep throwing in information such as what mistakes other pilots have been making that got them in trouble such as violating that restricted area over there or an emphasis on the importance of carb heat and lets talk about the airspace in the area and what pisses off ATC, etc. Admittedly, there was an explanation of what to do for the stall and forced approach but I would like more. Reinforcing what was taught many years ago is a good thing.

I found the 172 instructor to follow the same pattern as above combined with not being well spoken in explanations which is extremely important. As well, aircraft type knowledge was marginal. Instructors should have a good knowledge of their aircraft.

I then went and did a checkout at Chicago executive airport in a Katana. Once again, marginal knowledge of type with him not even being 100% sure what type of engine the aircraft had when I asked if it was the Rotax version or not. Minimal explanation of procedures. How about saying that these are some of the differences between your typical Cessna and the Katana although there was a brief mention of the castoring nosewheel. Local airspace knowledge and procedures for the area we went to(East to the shoreline and downtown seemed good). A couple of misses on the engine in a 5 minute period led to an early landing.

I checked out in a Cherokee 140 in Vancouver the other day. The instructor was decent with a good explanation of the circuit procedures and some questions asked about various subjects but more would have been better. Admittedly, I used to fly an Arrow so he knew that I was somewhat familiar with the Cherokee line. Lower clouds prevented a full checkout.

The fifth checkout was in a 172 for a BFR in Anchorage at Merrill Field. A very busy and airspace constrained airport(squeezed betweeintwo large airports) with a large number of very complex arrival and departure procedures for VFR aircraft. This guy was the best of the group with an excellent knowledge of the FAR's and good explanation of the procedures that we followed. Of course it is a BFR and that requires a 1 hour ground briefing prior to the flight. I learned a lot and wrote down a lot of notes for my next flight there to complete the checkout.

So in closing, an instructor should have a decent knowledge of their aircraft and if they don't please review. Lets talk about the airspace around the airport and what you need to do and not do to keep yourself from getting in trouble. Don't assume that just because someone has lots of experience in planes that they know it all. Reinforcing important issues is a good thing along with the occasional tidbits of interesting information. An instructor should be reasonably well-spoken in explaining/reviewing the subject at hand. And when they can't answer a reasonable question, find out the answer for next time.

I was never an instructor and generally tried to avoid that but I do checkouts on three small aircraft types. I always try to put emphasis on certain aspects of the aircraft that cause difficulties for pilots. Reasons for accidents and mistakes that can be learned the easy way by word of mouth from me instead of learning it the hard way.
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by Shiny Side Up »

I must already know everything because I am an airline guy and he wants to be an airline guy so I am cool and know it all.
Out of curiousity, did you make sure these guys knew you were an airline guy? How you present yourself often governs how people react to you. I hear what you're saying about them needing to be more knowlegeable, but how much they'll assume you know is often tough for them to guage. "Airline guys" often show outright contempt for flight instructors, regardless of their quality or experience, not even sure if many are aware they are presenting themselves this way. I don't envy any newbie instructor having to show them anything, much less actually maybe educate them in any way.
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pelmet
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by pelmet »

They asked my background and I said that I fly commercially and privately. Then more detailed questions got asked such as what and where and I answered. Even if a person is knowledgeable, it is good to review stuff and reinforce.

I am continuing my checkouts over the short term anyways. Had a talk but no flying with a 172RG guy today who seems to know his stuff and the local airspace and why people get violated around here. Also quite familiar with the systems. That is nice. Have a Grumman Cheetah checkout coming up in Dallas next. Will report if anything interesting comes up.
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by digits_ »

Hi pelmet,

I think you need to make a difference between:
1) a check-out on an airplane type (especially a basic one on which you already have experience)
2) a revision/extra training flight because you are feeling uncertain/a bit rusty

From the first part of your post, I got the feeling you asked for 1), but you actually wanted 2). When I got checked out on another airplane type, I wanted to get it over with as soon as possible. It was time in the air flying where the instructor wanted to go, not where I wanted to go. If I could safely fly the aircraft, I was happy. The other stuff (airspace etc), I knew how to look it up myself.


pelmet wrote: I have been on a binge and done 5 separate checkouts all in aircraft that I was familiar with in past flying. What I am looking for is an instructor who is good at explaining things and knowledgeable about a wide range of subjects and will on their own go over a bunch of subjects and items.
Fair enough.
pelmet wrote: My first two were in a 150 and 172 at the same location which shall remain nameless. While the 150 guy showed me all the relevant details of stuff to do on the ground such as signing out and checking the logbook, there seemed to be feeling of I must already know everything because I am an airline guy and he wants to be an airline guy so I am cool and know it all. But, I would like someone to keep throwing in information such as what mistakes other pilots have been making that got them in trouble such as violating that restricted area over there
Why is this necessary ? Restricted areas are -as far as I know- always indicated on a map. So this information can easily be gathered by preparing the flight and reading the maps. Is it really wrong of that instructor to assume you would be able to do this by yourself ? Not because you are an airline pilot, but every ppl should be able to do such a basic task.
pelmet wrote:
or an emphasis on the importance of carb heat and lets talk about the airspace in the area and what pisses off ATC, etc.
Same as a bove, no ?
pelmet wrote: Admittedly, there was an explanation of what to do for the stall and forced approach but I would like more. Reinforcing what was taught many years ago is a good thing.
So you asekd for 1) and expected 2)
And more importantly: did you ask him for more information during the flight ? I find it hard to believe he would refuse to give you more information once you asked.
pelmet wrote: I found the 172 instructor to follow the same pattern as above combined with not being well spoken in explanations which is extremely important. As well, aircraft type knowledge was marginal. Instructors should have a good knowledge of their aircraft.

I then went and did a checkout at Chicago executive airport in a Katana. Once again, marginal knowledge of type with him not even being 100% sure what type of engine the aircraft had when I asked if it was the Rotax version or not.
You might consider me a bad instructor then, but honestly, I don't know the engine type of the airplanes I instruct on (well, I do now, but not before reading your message). Why is that important ? If he knows what fuel you need to use, in which way the propeller turns and what its quirks are, then why would he need to know the type ? If you really want to know, read the airplane manual. Again something a PPL should be able to do.

(and if you're renting, make sure the engine in the airplane is actually the same type as described in the paper work, especially if you plan to fly it somewhere high and hot and heavy :rolleyes: )
pelmet wrote:Minimal explanation of procedures. How about saying that these are some of the differences between your typical Cessna and the Katana although there was a brief mention of the castoring nosewheel.
You might have a point here
pelmet wrote: Don't assume that just because someone has lots of experience in planes that they know it all. Reinforcing important issues is a good thing along with the occasional tidbits of interesting information. An instructor should be reasonably well-spoken in explaining/reviewing the subject at hand. And when they can't answer a reasonable question, find out the answer for next time.
Agreed, but you have to assume some things, otherwise every checkout would be like an exam flight, without any room for explanation and practice.

I didn't mean to sound too harsh, just wanted to defend my fellow flight instructors a bit.

Regards,
Digits
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by pelmet »

Maybe the Colonel can chip in here and let us know what an instructor should give as information for a checkout. I am not a rated instructor. But I am paying money for instruction. I don't want to get it over as quick as possible(just in a reasonable amount of time) but learn as much as possible. I know some people don't like to have information given to them and don't care much what the instructor has to say but that is an attitude problem. Just because something is obvious, does not mean it shouldn't be explained again if it is important.

My Grumman instructor here in Dallas did not have to tell me anything about the Dallas airspace but we went over it anyways. And he did mention a well hidden airspace restriction where Bush lives. Good to have pointed out even if it is on the chart. He was pretty good. And he knew the type of engine on the aircraft and the oil that goes in it as well.

As for the Cheetah...what a nice airplane, almost as nice as a Chipmunk.
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by FL-510 »

Or maybe we can change the name of the website to avamerica now....
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by LousyFisherman »

digits_ wrote: Snip.....
You might consider me a bad instructor then, but honestly, I don't know the engine type of the airplanes I instruct on (well, I do now, but not before reading your message). Why is that important ? If he knows what fuel you need to use, in which way the propeller turns and what its quirks are, then why would he need to know the type ? If you really want to know, read the airplane manual. Again something a PPL should be able to do.
Snip......
Because if he/she doesn't know the type, he/she does not know all the quirks. All the quirks are not in the POH. Starting many fuel-injected engines when they are hot is a perfect example.

As a 200 hour amateur I expect my instructors to know the plane they are using intimately.

IMHO
LF
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Re: So you want to be a flying instructor

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Maybe the Colonel can chip in here and let us know what an instructor should give as information for a checkout
Sorry about the delay - I don't read the sticky thread.

You need to know what can kill you.

It's nice to know what results in registered letters.

You might consider me a bad instructor then, but honestly, I don't know the engine type of the airplanes I instruct on
Sigh. Aim higher. It won't cause permanent
damage to you, to learn more about your aircraft
systems. You might even be able to answer
people's questions, and offer better instruction,
if you do.

www.pittspecials.com/articles/Magnetos.htm
www.pittspecials.com/articles/cs_props.htm
www.pittspecials.com/articles/CarbHeat.htm
www.pittspecials.com/articles/Mixture.htm
www.pittspecials.com/articles/CrankBreather.htm
www.pittspecials.com/articles/PistonEngine.htm
www.pittspecials.com/articles/Oil.htm
www.pittspecials.com/articles/Cleaning.htm

a well hidden airspace restriction where Bush lives
Was that Crawford? Flew by that. North of Austin?
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