Conestoga College, Algonquin College, and Brampton Flight Ce

[HighDreams]

Hi,

I've applied to Conestoga and Alogonquin for their 2 year aviation diploma programs. I know I will get in because my marks in high - school were pretty high. I'm also considering Brampton Flight Centre in Caledon, ON for their 1 year professional pilot program. I'm trying to decide between these 3 places. I've been reading the forums about whether an aviation college diploma is better then just going to a flying school and there seems to be various opinions about this. MOI that one place may be better for one person but not for the other because everyone learns differently and has different expectations regarding their education pathway. I also believe that the airlines look for pilots that are hard workers, good to work with, and have experience. In other words your character. Someone who completes college may not have that personality, although they're "educated", so they would not have an advantage. I spent about an hour today typing out what I believe are the pros and cons for each place as well as similarities and final thoughts. I could post it here but it's about 2 pages lol. What I'm asking for is more input on this and Conestoga's program, Algonquin's program, and Brampton Flight Centre's program. I've looke at their course outlines and the other details in regards to the programs. I went for a "Fam Flight" at BFC and had the opportunity to ask questions and am hoping to check out Conestoga and Algonquin in person. It's nice to know what people in the industry have heard or experienced before I make my decision.

Thanks,

JB

[sepia]

If you're looking to go to aviation college why wouldn't you look at the good ones? Sault and Confederation aren't even in the same universe as those programs. Above that, your flying is paid for by the government. Unless you have a passion for paying large sums of money for something you can get for free, I'm not sure why you'd even consider any of the listed places.

[Aviatard]

Sault and Confederation aren't even in the same universe as those programs.

How so?

[HighDreams]

I'm in south western Ontario so the Soo is like an 8 hour drive. When I do it up it'll cost me the same by the time you throw in living costs and travelling home once in a while. Conestoga and BFC are close to me so I would be able to live at home and it'd be about the same cost. At the end of any of those programs you still get your licenses. I'm wondering what the reputations are for these colleges and BFC and what the instructor are like. Does going to a certain school affect you getting hired by some companies?

[mattedfred]

I would be willing to bet that it would be less expensive to attend Sault or Confed under the following circumstances:

You don't have to live in residence in the Sault so you could save money on rent and food by living off campus.
There are plenty of rental units within walking distance of the college.
You wouldn't need your own vehicle if you rented within walking distance. I think the college still offers a shuttle van service to and from the college and the airport and there were usually lots of other students that had their own vehicles.

I imagine that you would need your own vehicle in order to make it out to BFC or Conostoga on a regular basis. The cost of owning your vehicle should be considered in your comparison. Purchase, insurance, registration, maintenance and gas can quickly eat in to your savings.

You should also plan on moving away from Southern Ontario if your goal is to attain a flying job with a 705 operator within a reasonable amount of time. Living away from home while attending college can be a great way to transition to living away from home while working.

I was born and raised throughout Southern Ontario and moving away to attend college and for the first few years of my flying career was the best choice I ever made.

[mike53]

I would be willing to bet that it would be less expensive to attend Sault or Confed under the following circumstances:

You should also plan on moving away from Southern Ontario if your goal is to attain a flying job with a 705 operator within a reasonable amount of time. Living away from home while attending college can be a great way to transition to living away from home while working.

I was born and raised throughout Southern Ontario and moving away to attend college and for the first few years of my flying career was the best choice I ever made.

Well said,The best way to build character is to leave the nest.I'm sure in this day and age with most of your friends still living at home you don't see the logic of leaving.Free room and board.Come and go as you please.No meals to worry about ,clothes always washed and hung neatly in your closet.
Not the stuff for building character.
It will be the best move you ever make.

[HighDreams]

Has anyone actually attended Conestoga College or Alqonquin College for their two year aviation diploma program or Brampton Flight Centre or know of anyone that has?

[ant_321]

Airlines want hours. In my opinion, finish school asap and start building hours!

[HighDreams]

Ant, that's the fell I'm getting from reading all of theses forums. What's important is you character and your flight experience. Just my opinion, I've noticed that this topic has numerous opinions. I don't see one being better then the other, it comes down to the individual.

[Highflyinpilot]

I moved 12 hours away form my home to go to a subsidized school, paying rent, bills, owning a car, And after looking into costs it was cheaper for me to move 12 hours away and pay my own way than to do it at home privately, And oh ya, What a ride those 2 years were

[AUGER9]

I moved 12 hours away form my home to go to a subsidized school, paying rent, bills, owning a car, And after looking into costs it was cheaper for me to move 12 hours away and pay my own way than to do it at home privately, And oh ya, What a ride those 2 years were

Ditto, wouldn't take it back for anything!
At Conestoga, for example, you do a general arts and science diploma and your flying is separately done at a regular flight school. You're better off doing your flying at your local school and a college diploma in an area that will get you a job should flying not work out. Sault, Confed, and Seneca are the true aviation college programs where your flying is done with the college itself, not a regular flight school. I can't speak for Brampton, but Conestoga's program is quite poor and very unorganized.

[cdnpilot77]

Has anyone actually attended Conestoga College or Alqonquin College for their two year aviation diploma program or Brampton Flight Centre or know of anyone that has?

I graduated from conestoga college. I was disappointed with the courses that were offered in the program, but have read the up to date curriculum courses and they are drastically better and more geared towards aviation than when I attended. The organization has also gotten much better but they force the students to wear ties now and it just looks ridiculous. Another cost to factor in in mattedreds points about owning a vehicle is parking at the college... $150 per semester if i remember correctly.

[Typhoon]

Just a little insight here, I'm at one of the subsidized colleges. I'm approaching my last semester now and at the end of it the whole thing (starting off with no flying experience to almost 230hours, plus living expenses, rent, operating a car, etc..) will have cost me close to $22,000. A friend of mine went to Conestoga and his two years cost him close to $75,000. The figures speak for themselves :S. If you have more questions you can PM me if you want.

[cdnpilot77]

Just a little insight here, I'm at one of the subsidized colleges. I'm approaching my last semester now and at the end of it the whole thing (starting off with no flying experience to almost 230hours, plus living expenses, rent, operating a car, etc..) will have cost me close to $22,000. A friend of mine went to Conestoga and his two years cost him close to $75,000. The figures speak for themselves :S. If you have more questions you can PM me if you want.

I was about $45,000 in, but lived at home during the college years at conestoga

[costermonger]

Conestoga's program used to be a 'go to classes at the college and show up tuesdays and thursdays for groundschool with everybody else who's training' type deal. Integration between the college and WWFC has improved a long way since then. Most flight related classes are done at the flight school, and the schedule is set up to minimize the travel back and forth between Conestoga and the airport over the course of each day; ie on monday you might spend the whole day at the college while tuesday is an airport day; class in the AM and flying after. There are days that are split between the two locations but I don't believe that's done more than once a week. It's helpful to have a car but lots of students have been successful without their own transportation. Most of the students tend to live in the same area and have similar schedules, so carpooling is very common.

Regardless of which school you're thinking of you've gotta analyse your finances and look realistically at the expenses associated with each school. Beyond that you really should visit those that you can, and at the stand-alone schools (BFC, WWFC, OFC) you might want to grab an intro flight. Confed, Sault and Seneca are training only their professional program students, the other three are going to have everything in between rec permits and professional pilots doing an IFR renewal. That leads to very different operations and environments from school to school.

Good luck!

[cdnpilot77]

Conestoga's program used to be a 'go to classes at the college and show up tuesdays and thursdays for groundschool with everybody else who's training' type deal. Integration between the college and WWFC has improved a long way since then. Most flight related classes are done at the flight school, and the schedule is set up to minimize the travel back and forth between Conestoga and the airport over the course of each day; ie on monday you might spend the whole day at the college while tuesday is an airport day; class in the AM and flying after. There are days that are split between the two locations but I don't believe that's done more than once a week. It's helpful to have a car but lots of students have been successful without their own transportation. Most of the students tend to live in the same area and have similar schedules, so carpooling is very common.

Regardless of which school you're thinking of you've gotta analyse your finances and look realistically at the expenses associated with each school. Beyond that you really should visit those that you can, and at the stand-alone schools (BFC, WWFC, OFC) you might want to grab an intro flight. Confed, Sault and Seneca are training only their professional program students, the other three are going to have everything in between rec permits and professional pilots doing an IFR renewal. That leads to very different operations and environments from school to school.

Good luck!

Good post

[skypirate88]

I was through the Conestoga program not too long ago...for the most part the people were pretty good. Some of the management at the WWFC has changed since I left but I feel it is for the better. The classes at the college are a joke. Like a previous poster said, it would have been better to just persue a non related diploma

Brampton's program is a one year accelerated program, which is a good fit for some, but again not for others. All classes are completed at the club in the mornings leaving flying for the afternoon. One bonus to the program at Brampton is that the top 10 or 15%(I don't know the exact figure) of the students are given a guaranteed a job offer once an instructor rating is completed.

Best of luck

[BE20 Driver]

As colleges go, Conestoga is probably one of the better ones out there. As a private, for profit, flight school, WWFC is one of the bigger and better ones in Ontario. Sure it isn't as developed as Sault or Seneca but you'll avoid all of the old boys club feeling and wiener measuring that is associated with going to school there. At the big three, they dictate when you eat, sleep and fly; what classes you attend and where and when you fly (also what if any days off you get). At a private school, you decide where to fly to, and which days you have off. You can hold down a job to bring in some money which I understand you can't do at Sault or Seneca.

Going to school is about more than just earning a piece of paper to hang on your wall. It's about building character and worldly experience. You should enjoy your time at post-secondary school. Make the most of it while you're there.

I'll also point out that once you're out in the real world, no one gives a crap what school you went to. You have the same commercial license as all of the rest of the 250 hour pilots out there. I have never heard a CP say that he'd hire someone just because he is a Seneca grad. It usually comes down to hours and availability.

Let's not call Sault and Seneca good just because they're cheaper. By that logic, I should be driving a GM not a Toyota.

[gustind]

You can hold down a job to bring in some money which I understand you can't do at Sault or Seneca.

I am in 3rd year and I've held my current job for the past 5 years. A job plus classes and flying is possible. It's demanding, but it is possible.

[Highflyinpilot]

[quote="gustind"][quote="BE20 Driver"]You can hold down a job to bring in some money which I understand you can't do at Sault or Seneca.
[/quote]

I am in 3rd year and I've held my current job for the past 5 years. A job plus classes and flying is possible. It's demanding, but it is possible.[/quote]



Same here, although i went to confederation ant not the sault or seneca.

[warbirdpilot7]

I did the Conestoga program in 2000. It has changed alot since then. 90% of the students in my year never made it to a PPL, let alone a CPL. Back then, we did college classes and evening ground schools at WWFC. The flying part was left for each student to book/plan/show up on your own. I am told now that your progress is more mandated and "pushed" along. You must reach a certain hour amount per semester etc....

As for a college program telling you what to do, get used to it. Your future employer will do the same..

[BE20 Driver]

I stand corrected on the job part. The people I knew that went there (10 years ago now) had a hard time holding down a job after their first year of school. Once they had to fly when and where the college told them to do so, meant having to find a very flexible boss or give lots of shifts away.
I went to Conestoga, 10 years ago now. I enjoyed my time there. Most of the teachers didn't care that much if you didn't attend class every day as long as the work was completed and exams were passed. I took some interesting elective courses. I guess that's what I liked about Conestoga. It was flexible. Same with WWFC. I could fly where and when I wanted. I went on some interesting cross country flights - Vancouver, New York, Florida,...
I'm sure all of the programs have changed a little since I was in school. Just choose what ever is best for you and then enjoy your time there.

[HighDreams]

I called Conestoga and was speaking to the registrar's office. The person only talked about what was on their website which I find kind of broad. She gave me the number of the person who oversees it at WWFC. I called a few times and she was busy with students. She finaly returned my calls and had my name wrong. She asked if I had a quick question and I said I can ask you when I go there to check the place out. So hopefully in Jan. I'll be able to go sometime and check it out. I was speaking to the program coordinator at Algonquin and he was awesome. He gave me a lot of information in detail about the program and what to expect. He agreed to meet at the flying club next month to show me around and answer more questions. Algonquin to me seems to be a good fit for me and there are still openings for this May. Advantage to starting in May is better weather and more daylight hours. This allows you to have less flights cancelled due to the weather, such as low ceilings, that you get in September. By the time you're ready to work on your instrument rating etc. the weather will be ideal for that. Also the group tends to be more mature and tend to be more successful than those who start in the fall. They also have a fleet of 28 aircraft I believe, unlike Sault. So the schedule is more flexible and there's always an aircraft available when you need it. Yes, Sault is cheaper, but cheaper isn't always better. I have to choose the right fit for me. Algonquin is more hands on and practical then Sault. At Sault there's a lot of engineering type courses. If you go to Sault it doesn't mean you can fly a plane as well as do aerospace engineering because they taught you some engineering stuff. You'd need to get a degree in it. At Algonquin there's no GPA that you must maintain. Sault has it to weed people out. They only have 9 Zlins or so so they can't accomodate all 80 or so people. Right now if I choose to get an aviation diploma it probably will be Algonquin, but I am still going to look at Conestoga. If not the diploma it will most likely be BFC.

[North Shore]

I (and others) have said it before here: if you want a degree/diploma, then go to a proper institution and get one, and learn to fly on the side. The 'Aviation Diploma' that you get from these colleges is all but worthless in the real world. If you have dreams of running an airline, then you'll need an accounting background or MBA, and lots of experience. Thinking that you're going to slide into a management seat at an airline if you get a layoff from the flying side just because you are a pilot with an aviation diploma is likely not going to work out..

That all being said, before you get stuck into the flying thing, do get a useful second career as a backup. Likely you'll face a layoff at some point in your career; with really poor luck, you'll lose your medical - if all you can do is fly an aeroplane, then you'll be in trouble..

Good Luck!

[Highflyinpilot]

[quote="North Shore"]I (and others) have said it before here: if you want a degree/diploma, then go to a proper institution and get one, and learn to fly on the side. The 'Aviation Diploma' that you get from these colleges is all but worthless in the real world. If you have dreams of running an airline, then you'll need an accounting background or MBA, and lots of experience. Thinking that you're going to slide into a management seat at an airline if you get a layoff from the flying side just because you are a pilot with an aviation diploma is likely not going to work out..

That all being said, before you get stuck into the flying thing, [b]do[/b] get a [u]useful second career as a backup[/u]. Likely you'll face a layoff at some point in your career; with really poor luck, you'll lose your medical - if all you can do is fly an aeroplane, then you'll be in trouble..

Good Luck![/quote]


Couldnt have said it better.