Tripacer fabric

[SkySailor]

So, my certified Tripacer's annual is due in April. Last week, the AMO whom I intend will perform the annual, had a look at the fabric covering. Concern was expressed about the condition of two area's on the rudder and elevator. It was politely suggested these potential problem spots need to be addressed before the aircraft could be signed off with a fresh annual.

The AMO does not have a strong background in fabric expertise. Unfortunately, declining numbers of certified tube and fabric aircraft, means finding AME's with these skills, who can sign off the work can be difficult.

The aircraft is located in eastern Ontario. Anyone know of a solution within say, a 4 hour flight radius of this location? Input is very much appreciated!

[Rudder Bug]

You've got a PM

[cgzro]

I highly recommend Corporate Aircraft Restorations in Oshawa.

They are experts at fabric covering/painting/repair. They recovered my Pitts over the last few years and the workmanship is simply outstanding. They have done all manner of fabric work including an AN2 (HUGE Russian biplane), and lots of other smaller biplanes etc. Rib lacing/stitching, repairs etc. is all second nature to them.

There is also some expertise now appearing in fabric work at Vintage Wings of Canada in Gatineau and they are doing a lot of fabric work on their Cornel project etc. and their Lysander was all redone last year in house. You could possibly ask one of their senior mechanics for an opinion but I don't think they could do the work for you as they are busy with their own projects.

Nice thing about Corporate in Oshawa however is if you decide to get the work done they are certainly one of the best around and are very nice folks to work with. I actually spent quite a while asking around before picking them, and I looked at a few examples of their work before deciding. Of course they are not the least expensive option.

Cheers,

Peter

[robertsailor1]

If its just your tail feathers its something you could do on your own if you have the time. A little reading and a youtube or two would get you going. You could do a rudder and elevator in a weekend and a few evenings, its just not that big a job. Save yourself quite a bit of money and learn something to boot.

[SkySailor]

Thanks for the input folks!

CGZRO- I'll definitely look into Corporate Aircraft Restorations. At this point, having someone with expertise look at the situation and advise what needs to be done, is first priority. The AMO where I intend to have the annual done, wasn't necessarily dismissive regarding the fabric, but I think preferred not to get involved with that specialty. Vintage Wings in Gatineau is in the back of my mind. I think I'll drive up later this week and ask a few questions. Even if no one is available for repairs, I could probably fly in and have someone take a quick look and provide advice.

Robertsailor1- The elevator could probably be removed and repaired quickly and economically. However, the vertical stab (sorry, should have been more specific earlier) has cracking in (what appears to be) the paint just aft of the leading edge. The area in question is where the vertical stab integrates with the fuselage. Not sure if this area can be fixed on it's own, or must have all the fabric removed from the rear fuselage. Regardless of whether I do the repairs or not (and I don't have a clue at this point ) due to it's certification, it must be signed off by an AME. Ideally, I could work under the supervision of signing authority or at the very least, observe the repairs.

Aircraft ownership......it's a little different than running out to the flying club and renting for an hour, huh?

[Hedley]

Keep in mind CAR 625 App A:

Elementary Work Task Listings
(1) fabric patches measuring not more than 15 cm (6 in) in any direction and not requiring rib stitching or the removal of control surfaces or structural parts, on small privately operated aircraft;

In my experience, the problem usually isn't with the fabric - it's with the paint cracking and peeling off the fabric as the paint ages and looses it's elasticity.

I have been viciously attacked here in the past - I was threatened with Enforcement action - for trying to help people with simple techniques to deal with this exact paint cracking, which is NOT fabric cracking, and does NOT require patching the fabric to repair.

I really don't need another four year bizarre go-around with Enforcement again, thank you very much, so I'll just keep on doing what I do, and everyone else here can just keep on doing what they do.

[robertsailor1]

Hedley is correct on his point, most cracks are simply paint and often it was the wrong paint in the beginning. If the final finish is dope then its easy peasy because with a little rejuvenatory you can get rid of the crack and your good to go. Start out with a simple punch test and see if the fabric is still good, probably is and if thats the case a crack in the paint is not that big a deal but over time it should be fixed as the UV will eventually get to it. Take your plane to some shop that understands and deals with fabric aircraft and have someone who knows what they are doing have a good look at it. Cracking in paint on fabric aircraft is pretty common.

[Hedley]

Cracking in paint on fabric aircraft is pretty common

It is virtually inevitable as the paint ages and dries out. Repeated flexing of the fabric - usually in the prop blast area, often over an edge - will crack the paint. The fabric is often just fine - it's just the paint which is cracked.

I don't like rejeuvenator much. Far better stuff to use.

One trick I have seen - although not really an approved procedure - is to scuff and shoot another layer of topcoat after the cracks have been treated. Remarkably good results have been obtained by people - NOT ME, ok, so don't frikken attack me - using this technique, perhaps because the solvent in the new topcoat softens the original paint. Kinda heavy, but if it works ...

[cgzro]

As others have suggested there are two issues.

1 - what is the condition of the actual fabric? This is determined either with a punch test, i.e. how many pounds does it take to make a hole or more accurately cutting a strip out of the fabric, usually from between bays on a top wing where it has max UV exposure, and then testing to see how much tension it takes to tear the strip. Of course the latter test requires a new patch be made over it once you are done, while the punch test does not require patching.

2 - what is the condition of the paint? If its dope and cracking, thats really easy to fix, at least locally. If its one of the two part finishes .. well its harder. Dope however has a very nice property that the thinners used with it will also disolve it after it hardens, so for example Methyl Ethyl Keytone which is a thinner used with dope can also melt it when its hard and brittle. So.. if you take a small brush and dip it in bit of MEK and then just rub around the crack, the crack will melt away. Now the paint and the primer/silver colors will all mix and you will get a silvery/dark colored splotch where the crack was. After you do that you can just brush a bit of top color over it and its usually good for a 100 hours more. Obviously you have to be careful not to use too much MEK as it can melt the glue under the fabric too which is not good.

Anyway .. show it to Mo Nesbit at Corporate before you muck with it, or take a day trip to Gatineau, visit the VWOC collection and see if you can get one of their fabric folks to lend an opinion. If you do stop at Gatineau make sure you check ahead as their mechanics are often on the road.

[SkySailor]

Reading through these posts and looking at the aircraft, I'm inclined to think you guys are correct with regards to paint cracking. I dug out all old logs and discovered a complete recover in 1970. The type of fabric was not legible (AME's must think they're doctors writing a prescription!), however I remember the previous owner mentioning ceconite. He also passed along a leftover quart of white "Randolph" all purpose butyrate dope.

The aircraft has always been hangered, and mostly flown VFR on local flights in search of $100 hamburgers. The paint is faded, which is not surprising considering it's age and significant coverage of the colour red.

I can confirm most of the questionable areas are locations that would be exposed to flexing and as mentioned, most likely surface cracking and not the fabric itself.

Thanks folks for your detailed posts and pm's. You have provided me with a number of locations in QC. and east/southern ON. I'll start close to home, and work my way out. Looking forward to some cross-country time and hopefully, a cheap repair bill!

[Hedley]

Sent you an email. If this aircraft has been hangared it's whole life, the ceconite is probably ok, and with a little work, you could make it look like new, if you wanted. I love Randolph - it works so well.

However, as I mentioned in the email, most AME's would recommend removing 40 year old fabric, even if it was in perfect condition, to inspect the internal hardware and structure. That's a long time. If nothing else, most AME's would recommend slicing the belly to inspect the lower longerons which often corrode out.

Has it really been hangared since new? UV and heat are the mortal enemies of traditional fabric and paint. Keep it cool and in the shade.

[robertsailor1]

I can tell you from personal experience that if a Tripacer has had time outside a hangar or been in a humid area for any length of time (20 years plus) you should open up the area under the lower longerons under the luggage area. These aircraft have a history of developing corrosion in that area. On mine when we opened it up to recover the whole aircraft it was perfect everywhere but that area and it was rusted right through on one side and the other side had pin holes. Both sides within an area only a couple of inches while the rest of the structure was perfect, go figure. I'm pretty sure if you check there will be some info on that with these aircraft.

[Hedley]

lower longerons under the luggage area ... developing corrosion

Exactly. Lower tubes of tube frame fuselage can be really troublesome for corrosion. See also Apache, Aztec, Mooney, which surprises most people at first.

Hangar it or lose it! I have an insulated hangar which is heated in the winter, and de-humidified in the summer to keep it dry and cool.

[SkySailor]

Check the comments regarding lower longerons. The previous owner was quite emphatic about the aircraft always being hangered. Is it possible to investigate the lower longerons (and hardware) without carving all the fabric up?

[robertsailor1]

Its certainly doable. Tailwheel fabric aircraft tend to have rust in the aft part of the aircraft if they have any. The Tripacer doesn't have much of a history of rust in the rearward part of the fuselage. It does have a history of rust in the tail feathers and the area you really watch is below the baggage compartment door as that's a low spot on the aircraft and water will often get trapped there. As I recall there is a stainless fitting that covers the tubes and then of course the fabric covers the outside and if there is going to any rust it usually will be under the fabric. Actually fabric is pretty easy to work with so you can open up an area and inspect it and if its good you can patch it. Its a bit more work when its over a longeron but the real touch is preparing it nicely for paint and then getting the repair to disappear, thats where the skill is.

[Hedley]

getting the repair to disappear, thats where the skill is

Nah. All you need is patience and matching topcoat. I have spent many, many, many hours at this, and I can tell you it is not rocket science.

Ceconite and Randolph rules.

View out my corner office door:

http://www.pittspecials.com/images/hangar.jpg

[anthonyp]

I'm resurrecting an old thread, however I'm wondering if anyone knows of a shop in Ontario who can recover fabric. Emails and phone calls to shops I found online have all gone unanswered.