To start off my decision to become a pilot happened yesterday. Now all I have been doing is searching several websites, message boards and other periodicals to see if this is something I really want, or if it's just a pipe dream. My plan isn't to just dive right in and blow loads of money until I get a better understanding of the business and the life one would lead. I'm currently 20 years old and nothing career wise has caught my attention or got me as interested as aviation has. The thought of becoming a pilot had never crossed my mind and God only knows why it has now. I'd just like to ask some questions to you guys who are just starting out with lessons and from the full fledged pilots, about the inner workings and realistic job opprotunities a pilots license offers. Anyone with any kind of experience or knowledge that would like to answer them, would be greatly appreciated.
1. What is the one thing someone who is interested in getting into the aviation business must know?
2. I currently live in Calgary. If any other Calgarians are out there who trained in the city could give me a good idea where to start looking or seek training to become a pilot it would be greatly appreciated.
3. What materials/knowledge is good to understand before entering a flight school?
4. How much does it cost to become a full fledged pilot? Also how many months/years does it take to achieve?
5. So you have got your pilots license. What then? What job opprotunties are open? Where is the best place to start looking for a job?
5. From most sites I've read, seniority seems to be the biggest factor in getting anywhere in this industry. With that in mind, what is the average age someone in Canada becomes a pilot of a commerical airline?
6. Is there realistic opprotunties in the commercial airline market currently and in the future? How many other pilots out there are unemployed trying to get these jobs?
7. What's one thing you would say is the worst thing about being a pilot?
8. The best thing?
9. Is the time and money in todays world and the current state of the industry worth it? Is there a viable future to have a successful career if you're just starting out and are at the bottom of the list?
Well that's about all for now. Anyone who can answer some or all my questions I'd really appreciate. Becoming a pilot is really the first career that caught my attention. Hopefully there is a future in it for me. Thanks for your time.
Some questions from a zero
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flynbutcher
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Give it some time, it's not all it's cracked up to be! Plan on very low wages(close to minimum wage)for the first couple of years. A small increase if you are lucky 2-3 years later. If you want to make the airlines, plan on at least 5 years, maybe even longer after you completed flight school. Finding that first job is the toughest part, make all the friends you can. (unless your name is ACbound, then you won't have any worries 
)
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No Conflict
- Rank 7
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- Location: All over the friggin' place....
I agree.. plan on min wage or just above, alot of Kraft dinner and crappy apartments for the first while. First job is a b*tch to get, and then that job will normally not have any glory.
Normally, flying is something you have to REALLY like doing to go for a career as a pilot. Don't do it on a whim, and don't do it if you're not 1000% sure you're up for the challenge.
Now for the good side...
Best thing about it? Well, you get to travel (ALOT) and move (ALOT) so if you are the kind of person who likes the check out new places and people, it's not so bad. You have to be ready to leave everything behind and move across the country if need be.
If you have not being flying yet, I would strongly suggest a intriduction flight at your nearest Flight school, before you make any decisions on whether you want to continue.
PM me if you want.
NC
Normally, flying is something you have to REALLY like doing to go for a career as a pilot. Don't do it on a whim, and don't do it if you're not 1000% sure you're up for the challenge.
Now for the good side...
Best thing about it? Well, you get to travel (ALOT) and move (ALOT) so if you are the kind of person who likes the check out new places and people, it's not so bad. You have to be ready to leave everything behind and move across the country if need be.
If you have not being flying yet, I would strongly suggest a intriduction flight at your nearest Flight school, before you make any decisions on whether you want to continue.
PM me if you want.
NC
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No Conflict
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angry inch
- Rank 7
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- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:18 pm
- Location: the wet coast
flyin' career
I would recommend trying to get an industry job; ramp, fuel guy, etc while perhaps working on a private license. These will get you familiar with the industry, and even if you don't pursue a cpl, a private license can be quite rewarding & fun without spending your inheritance! I'm a low time guy who's had a couple part time gigs in the summer & still lookin' for a break... It's been a struggle, but no regrets here. Good Luck
Hmm where to begin
1. It's a tough business with an uncertain future. Forget the stereotype of finishing your training and heading to work straight for the airlines, it just doesn’t work like that. In fact most pilots entering this business will never see the cockpit of an airliner
2. I'm also from Calgary and run a flight school out in Springbank. I would recommend that you head out to Springbank and check out each facilities (there is about 4 different schools) and more importantly how you are treated when you walk through the door.
3. Basic English and grade 5 math, honestly it's that simple.
4. A commercial lic with a multi engine instrument endorsement will run you about 30k at a private school to about 50k at a college program. Depending on how often you fly anywhere from 6 months to two years.
5(1). Job opportunities are far and few between, you have to head to an a location that is out of the way (somewhere north of 60) or teach people to fly for less money than what someone slinging fries would make.
5(2). If you are really lucky in your late 20's but mid 30's is more realistic. I won't be the only one to tell you this but the airlines are not the be all and end all of aviation. Many pilots have had successful fulfilling careers without ever flying for a major airline
6. At the entry level there is about 20-30 pilots applying for each flying position. It's tough to get a job just fuelling and loading the aircraft you hope to one day fly.
7. The pay and the schedule
8. I love flying, so the best part is I get to fly.....
9. If you crunch the numbers I would say no, you have to really love it to make it through the tough times and I guarantee you will experience rough periods
Browse through the forums and check out what other pilots have to say, keep in mind though that a lot of people come here to vent behind the anonymity of the internet. To get a better feel for the industry go talk to a pilot who isn’t working for the airlines.
That's all I have for now, send me a private message if you have any other questions
1. It's a tough business with an uncertain future. Forget the stereotype of finishing your training and heading to work straight for the airlines, it just doesn’t work like that. In fact most pilots entering this business will never see the cockpit of an airliner
2. I'm also from Calgary and run a flight school out in Springbank. I would recommend that you head out to Springbank and check out each facilities (there is about 4 different schools) and more importantly how you are treated when you walk through the door.
3. Basic English and grade 5 math, honestly it's that simple.
4. A commercial lic with a multi engine instrument endorsement will run you about 30k at a private school to about 50k at a college program. Depending on how often you fly anywhere from 6 months to two years.
5(1). Job opportunities are far and few between, you have to head to an a location that is out of the way (somewhere north of 60) or teach people to fly for less money than what someone slinging fries would make.
5(2). If you are really lucky in your late 20's but mid 30's is more realistic. I won't be the only one to tell you this but the airlines are not the be all and end all of aviation. Many pilots have had successful fulfilling careers without ever flying for a major airline
6. At the entry level there is about 20-30 pilots applying for each flying position. It's tough to get a job just fuelling and loading the aircraft you hope to one day fly.
7. The pay and the schedule
8. I love flying, so the best part is I get to fly.....
9. If you crunch the numbers I would say no, you have to really love it to make it through the tough times and I guarantee you will experience rough periods
Browse through the forums and check out what other pilots have to say, keep in mind though that a lot of people come here to vent behind the anonymity of the internet. To get a better feel for the industry go talk to a pilot who isn’t working for the airlines.
That's all I have for now, send me a private message if you have any other questions
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Axial Flow
- Rank 7
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- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:00 pm
Definetly get a job on the ramp somewhere if you can. I would suggest working for a commuter operation or air taxi. That way you can see where you will be spending the next 3-5 years of your life and you will be no longer disillusioned about how life will be as a "Commercial Pilot".
I started off working on the ramp for an airline operation and somehow though when I would get my first job it would not be long before I would be one of the pilots for whom I was unloading the plane for. There job was great, lots of cash, lots of days off, gravvy flying, and good airplanes.
I even got a job offer at a top notch outfit that I could have transisioned from the ramp to flight line but I didn't want to leave my gravvy ramp job.
Ok anyways definetly look into every aspect before you go throw 40,000 away. Make sure you are willing to sacrifice alot for the first 5 years after flight school.
Cheers and good luck,
PS. Employers really only look for one skill...You have to be able to bender over and hold your ankles
I started off working on the ramp for an airline operation and somehow though when I would get my first job it would not be long before I would be one of the pilots for whom I was unloading the plane for. There job was great, lots of cash, lots of days off, gravvy flying, and good airplanes.
I even got a job offer at a top notch outfit that I could have transisioned from the ramp to flight line but I didn't want to leave my gravvy ramp job.
Ok anyways definetly look into every aspect before you go throw 40,000 away. Make sure you are willing to sacrifice alot for the first 5 years after flight school.
Cheers and good luck,
PS. Employers really only look for one skill...You have to be able to bender over and hold your ankles
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R2000/1830
- Rank 4
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- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:24 pm
- Location: Canada
Thats the funniest piece of bullsh*t Ive ever read!!!!If you want to make the airlines, plan on at least 5 years, maybe even longer
What a load of crap!!!!
More like 5 years till:
1) you accept the sad fact that everyone you know is richer (byfar) than you are
2) You made more $$ in high school, working part time at McDonalds.
3) youre an alcoholic,atleast you think you were at the bar again last night, its all fuzzy, f*ck off
4) fat chicks are OK because thats all there is in this crappy town
5) your saving $ for your first divorce
6) your buddy who did make it to the airline, gave some prick 30Gs for a job with a company that went bankrupt and is now working part time at McDonalds. See comment # 2.
Mouz, go for it. Big pilot shortage coming up..
Keep flying till the noise stops.
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No Conflict
- Rank 7
- Posts: 610
- Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:48 am
- Location: All over the friggin' place....
SplitS wrote:Thats the funniest piece of bullsh*t Ive ever read!!!!If you want to make the airlines, plan on at least 5 years, maybe even longer
What a load of crap!!!!
More like 5 years till:
1) you accept the sad fact that everyone you know is richer (byfar) than you are
2) You made more $$ in high school, working part time at McDonalds.
3) youre an alcoholic,atleast you think you were at the bar again last night, its all fuzzy, f*ck off
4) fat chicks are OK because thats all there is in this crappy town
5) your saving $ for your first divorce
6) your buddy who did make it to the airline, gave some prick 30Gs for a job with a company that went bankrupt and is now working part time at McDonalds. See comment # 2.
Mouz, go for it. Big pilot shortage coming up..
Funny as hell, but unfortunately true... expect first airline job 5-10 years after your FIRST flying job (and I'm not talking banner towing and jumperdumper), if you are lucky. Sad, but true.
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just another pilot
- Rank (9)
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- Location: Edmonton
I would start punching yourself in the nuts - just to get used to it...
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Croissant Wrench
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:43 am
- Location: Hull
Making a good living as a pilot and making it to where you are happy as a pilot virtually follows the same path as an aspiring rock star, actor or pro athelete.
Other than the fact that the initial financial investment is quite big and you don't need any unique talents (just unique aptitudes) to become a pilot, you have to be able to compete against a multitude of others trying to get to the same place you are, take what work you can get where you can get it and NEVER let up trying to stay one step ahead of the rest of the pack.
Like an actor, musician or pro ballplayer, you will have to struggle in the 'minors' until you get a crack at the big time and there are no guarantee's what-so-ever.
True one in a million may cruise through beyond belief, but the real question you have to ask yourself is, am I a realist or a dreamer.
Other than the fact that the initial financial investment is quite big and you don't need any unique talents (just unique aptitudes) to become a pilot, you have to be able to compete against a multitude of others trying to get to the same place you are, take what work you can get where you can get it and NEVER let up trying to stay one step ahead of the rest of the pack.
Like an actor, musician or pro ballplayer, you will have to struggle in the 'minors' until you get a crack at the big time and there are no guarantee's what-so-ever.
True one in a million may cruise through beyond belief, but the real question you have to ask yourself is, am I a realist or a dreamer.
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Brad the Pilot
- Rank 0
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- Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:39 pm
Well. I would first start by going to a local flying club and going on a Fam Flight (Familurisation flight) They will take you up flying and let you take control for a bit. Not much as far as a lesson goes, more of a sight seeing flight. It gives you a good idea of what it is like, when I went on my Fam flight, I was hooked, still am. If you are really serious about flying then the money at the end doesn't matter so much. But you really do have to love flying.
The industry is not as good as it was before Sept 11, but it is starting to pick up.
When you do finally get your first job, the money won't be great, and you will either end up becomming an instructor or a dockhand with little flying time. The more experience you get the more you move up, relitively slowly.
Getting into flying is definatly very expensive, I would look into getting some sort of grant or something.
What it all comes down to is how much you put into it. If you just go flying every now and then, it will be slow going.
If you have any other questions, send me an email bradthepilot05@hotmail.com
Note: Do not go to Sault College in Sault Ste. Marie Ontario!
The industry is not as good as it was before Sept 11, but it is starting to pick up.
When you do finally get your first job, the money won't be great, and you will either end up becomming an instructor or a dockhand with little flying time. The more experience you get the more you move up, relitively slowly.
Getting into flying is definatly very expensive, I would look into getting some sort of grant or something.
What it all comes down to is how much you put into it. If you just go flying every now and then, it will be slow going.
If you have any other questions, send me an email bradthepilot05@hotmail.com
Note: Do not go to Sault College in Sault Ste. Marie Ontario!
You will have to move, alot.
1. To get your first job
2. Next job
3. Next job
4. Sometimes when you get an upgrade
5. Or laid off
6. Or bumped
7. Every new job
There are only a handful (if that) of aviation companies in any given city. Even fewer when you take into account your experience level at any given point and which companies are in your "range". ie. You're in Calgary now- the fact that Westjet is based there means really sweet eff all to a person with less than 4000 hrs. of flight time. Ditto for pretty much every other company based there not including 1 or 2 small flight schools that you may be able to work for when you initially get licensed. When you have no experience, the companies that you will be able to get a job with will generally be based in extremely undesirable locations in the middle of nowhere. Moving expenses are NEVER paid by airlines.
You will make very little money, initially. For the first 5 years of looking for work, work, and unemployment after being laid off or your company going bankrupt, I'd ballpark that an average pilot grosses about $25K/yr. Sure some years/seasons you'll make more, and others much much less. For the next 5 years you'll average slightly more, say $45K/yr. Again some years you'll make more, others you'll be laid off and looking for work, framing houses or cutting grass and making hardly anything from aviation at all. Factor in the initial cost of your license and the loan payments, and then moving expenses, and you realize for the first 10 years of being a pilot you will be quite poor. You'll notice all your non aviation friends living in cities, getting health benefits, weekends off, holidays off, vacation time, buying houses, driving new(er) cars, having kids etc. and so on. But you're still renting a crappy apartment in some tiny town, working holidays and weekends, on call, and eating Kraft dinner, trying to find a woman that will put up with all this aviation BS.
After 10 years in the business there is the possibility, and we must stress possibility, of it getting significantly more lucrative. At this point you'd probably have over 5000 hrs of flight time, and either be working for a large airline, respectable corporate/charter operator, or be in a specialized field like waterbombing or police work that come with their own unique challenges but actually pay reasonably and have fringe benefits associated. You may live in a city. You may have a decent health package and vacation time. You may be able to buy a house and actually start to get on with your life. Typical starting pay at airlines in Canada like Westjet, Air Canada, Skyservice, Canjet or the large cargo airlines is in the $45K range. Within a couple years at any one of those companies you'd be making around $70-80K/yr. Not bad! After a few more years at a large airline, say 8 (give or take) you might make Captain and be pulling down $100K+/yr. Pretty damn good eh?
But this is where a lot of pilots get trapped in by flight schools' little sales pitches. If you believe the media, the "average" pilot makes this kind of money. If you are actually a pilot you know this to be far from average; it takes in the range of 15+ years to amass the experience and seniority to be able to make this kind of money. But it's not about the money is it?! Why are pilots always bitching about MONEY!? Isn't the job fun, rewarding, and challenging? Well, yes it is. A lot of the time the job can hardly be considered work it is so enjoyable. Just please remember the fact that you are thinking about doing this as a CAREER, and not a HOBBY if you decide to go for it. You can still love to fly, and do it on weekends if you like. But when its your job, when you have to rely on it to eat and live, the money damn well matters. And you have to be prepared to have very little, work crappy hours, work holidays, and move every year at your own expense for the next 10 years to get there. Just do your best to enjoy the ride while you're at it.
Cheers
1. To get your first job
2. Next job
3. Next job
4. Sometimes when you get an upgrade
5. Or laid off
6. Or bumped
7. Every new job
There are only a handful (if that) of aviation companies in any given city. Even fewer when you take into account your experience level at any given point and which companies are in your "range". ie. You're in Calgary now- the fact that Westjet is based there means really sweet eff all to a person with less than 4000 hrs. of flight time. Ditto for pretty much every other company based there not including 1 or 2 small flight schools that you may be able to work for when you initially get licensed. When you have no experience, the companies that you will be able to get a job with will generally be based in extremely undesirable locations in the middle of nowhere. Moving expenses are NEVER paid by airlines.
You will make very little money, initially. For the first 5 years of looking for work, work, and unemployment after being laid off or your company going bankrupt, I'd ballpark that an average pilot grosses about $25K/yr. Sure some years/seasons you'll make more, and others much much less. For the next 5 years you'll average slightly more, say $45K/yr. Again some years you'll make more, others you'll be laid off and looking for work, framing houses or cutting grass and making hardly anything from aviation at all. Factor in the initial cost of your license and the loan payments, and then moving expenses, and you realize for the first 10 years of being a pilot you will be quite poor. You'll notice all your non aviation friends living in cities, getting health benefits, weekends off, holidays off, vacation time, buying houses, driving new(er) cars, having kids etc. and so on. But you're still renting a crappy apartment in some tiny town, working holidays and weekends, on call, and eating Kraft dinner, trying to find a woman that will put up with all this aviation BS.
After 10 years in the business there is the possibility, and we must stress possibility, of it getting significantly more lucrative. At this point you'd probably have over 5000 hrs of flight time, and either be working for a large airline, respectable corporate/charter operator, or be in a specialized field like waterbombing or police work that come with their own unique challenges but actually pay reasonably and have fringe benefits associated. You may live in a city. You may have a decent health package and vacation time. You may be able to buy a house and actually start to get on with your life. Typical starting pay at airlines in Canada like Westjet, Air Canada, Skyservice, Canjet or the large cargo airlines is in the $45K range. Within a couple years at any one of those companies you'd be making around $70-80K/yr. Not bad! After a few more years at a large airline, say 8 (give or take) you might make Captain and be pulling down $100K+/yr. Pretty damn good eh?
But this is where a lot of pilots get trapped in by flight schools' little sales pitches. If you believe the media, the "average" pilot makes this kind of money. If you are actually a pilot you know this to be far from average; it takes in the range of 15+ years to amass the experience and seniority to be able to make this kind of money. But it's not about the money is it?! Why are pilots always bitching about MONEY!? Isn't the job fun, rewarding, and challenging? Well, yes it is. A lot of the time the job can hardly be considered work it is so enjoyable. Just please remember the fact that you are thinking about doing this as a CAREER, and not a HOBBY if you decide to go for it. You can still love to fly, and do it on weekends if you like. But when its your job, when you have to rely on it to eat and live, the money damn well matters. And you have to be prepared to have very little, work crappy hours, work holidays, and move every year at your own expense for the next 10 years to get there. Just do your best to enjoy the ride while you're at it.
Cheers
Finally, the best first point of advice to be given. As I'm sure you're noticing there are many factors to consider, and many passionate opinions to be expressed here in the forum. Step by step go slow. You said you are in Calgary. Start by taking a drive out to Springbank Airport (across from Calaway Park) and go to the CFC (Calgary Flying Club). Simply walk in, go to the front desk and tell them you're thinking about becoming a pilot. I can gaurantee you they won't sucker you in just for your money. I used to work there and recommend it for a great, non-intimidating, personal environment. If the dispatcher is not a pilot themselves, speak with an instructor there who is not on a flight and hanging around at the cafe, trust me you will gather plenty of information to fill your head and start the decision making process. By all means do go on a discovery flight as it is the best way to see what it's all about. Once you've done this, take it to the next step and resort back to the forum for more questioning.Brad the Pilot wrote:Well. I would first start by going to a local flying club and going on a Fam Flight
Good luck with your exploration and yes by all means don't rush into this as there are MANY things you will want to consider and that you will want to know.
LJD
