Hi everyone.

I'm looking for a few good operating tips from some of the more experienced drivers out on the coast. I've never flown out there, and have spent most of my flying years in northern Manitoba/Ontario on the buck 85 and beave.

I've read a bit of discussion on downwind takeoffs because of terrain, currents etc. I imagine there are plenty of differences in technique, so I hope some of you care to share.

Hi Dwesty, Are you going to be working out west this summer?
Bob

yes.
Looking for a "smooth transition" to the flying environment out there.

Hi Dwesty, I'll pm you tomorrow night, 30th

The only real differences are the mountains and the ocean.

Seriously though, buy and study one of the many great books written on mountain flying, and buy a few of the interesting non-fiction novels about the pioneering west coast bush pilots. (Amazing what you learn from others mistakes.)

Local knowledge regarding local weather patterns will be invaluable, studying the geography (peaks, valleys, rivers, etc) around your specific flying area will save your bacon when the weather turns ugly, know how to use the GPS in your plane but always be able to whip out a map and start dead reckoning from wherever you are too.

Tag along and fly with local experienced guys and gals as often as possible and don't be afraid to ask questions.

If you've never flown in the mountains, maybe do a mountain check out with a bush pilot with legit experience too, (not an instructor from Boundary Bay.)

Good luck, have fun.

Oh, and most importantly, ALWAYS HAVE AN OUT!

Where on the coast are you going to be working/flying? theres a lot of local knowledge stuff... and I'm sure if you had some specifics.. there are many bright and well experienced 'coasties' on here who could help

Always remember that the airplane has it's limits. If you are flying the North Coast you are going to flirt with those limits regularly. Respect those limits.

Make sure you have IFR experience.

Thank you for your replies.
I've read a few of schofields books. Interesting content.

As far as my potential operating area of concern, it will likely be mid-north Vancouver Island, but, I could also be operating around the mainland as well.

Iflyforpie isn't kidding!

Do enough hood work to be comfortable enough to not freak out when you're flying over water at 300 feet and your 2 miles goes to IMC. It can be unnerving as hell and you better be comfortable and competent enough to do a rate one 180 on the dials without losing altitude or freaking out your passengers.

If your company is too cheap to have an excellent colour moving map GPS with the upgraded terrain card for your area, then you know what to ask your friends and family to pool cash together for for your going-away party/birthday/Christmas combined present. (The Garmin 296 with the upgraded BC terrain card is perfect!)

While I'm here with half a cup of coffee left:

Imagine the wind blowing through the mountains is like water running down a river bed. When the water hits a rock, it gets pushed up fast and hard, and when the water crests the top of that rock, it tumbles and falls violently. Rapids are just like turbulence in the mountains. The faster the winds (or water) is moving, and the bigger the mountains (or rocks), the bigger the turbulence (or rapids).

So the upwind sides of mountains are your friends, and the downwind sides are your enemies. (And if you do get caught in a major downdraft, don't panic, you can usually fly out of the bottom of it as the winds hit the valley floor and dissipate. Dropping like a stone with full climb power can be unnerving as shit, but rest assured you'll never make that mistake twice.)

Never ever fly straight over a ridge, always approach it at a 45 degree angle so if you do hit some unexpected downdrafts, you're halfway into your turn.

On sunny days, fly the sunny side of the mountains (for thermal lift).

Never ever fly down the middle of a narrow valley. Hug the upwind or sunny side and always have enough room to turn around.

ALWAYS HAVE AN OUT.

Always check the weather at your destination! It changes so fast around here, and is always changing, so just because it's nice where you are now, doesn't mean it will be nice 50 miles away.

Understand the local weather patterns/phenomenon so you know what to expect during different weather patterns (highs and lows, inflows and outflows.)

Ask for some extra training in river/swift current operations as well as high mountain lake operations.

Practice sailing.

Webcams are your friends. Bookmark them all in one place.

Buy a set of local tide charts and know how to read and interpolate them. (The garmin 296 has an upgrade marine card so when you land in a harbour somewhere, you can have real-time sonar underneath you.)

Always have an out! (Can't be said enough.)

If your company doesn't have real time GPS tracking or provide sat phones for each machine, then you might want to add a sat phone and a waterproof bag to your wish list.

ELT's don't work when wet, underwater or upside down.

Take an egress course. Take a bush survival course. They might save your life.

Carry a mini/personal survival kit in your machine with a sleeping bag, food, water, flashlight, (leatherman on belt), lighter, axe, tarp, etc. etc. etc. If in doubt, it's better to set down somewhere safe for the night rather than push it.

Get-home-itis kills!

OK, coffee is done, have fun.

Oh yeah, almost forgot the free lunch/coffee/pastries...

A current newspaper (even a day or two old) or an interesting magazine will go a long way if you're in and out of camps where the cookie has been trapped for a while. (Guaranteed to get you fed and remembered.)

And a case of Lucky at the right camp at the right time could bring you immediate legendary status! (Just don't feed the dry reserves.)

A bottle of Crown and the right overnight and you're probably getting Lucky! (Maybe keep that one in your personal overnight survival bag. Ha ha.)

Hey there,
The above info is good (but I only skimmed it). This Nav Canada Local West Coast GFA (LGF) is a really handy tool that a lot of people seem to overlook. http://www.flightplanning.navcanada.ca/ ... NS_Inconnu


The weather can change so fast and you often don't accurately know what's up at your destination, or on route. I've mostly used the north and central LGF's and they are extremely useful.

Local knowledge is the best, there is some wired local stuff that can happen around here given the right weather conditions. In my experience a good operator anywhere out here will provide some good initial training for the local area and ongoing mentorship.

Hope that helps, there are a lot of good people around these parts, and a few questionable ones.
PM me if your around the southern Vancouver Island area.

Although the legal min vis for the west coast is 2 miles, you'll quickly learn that regulation is totally meaningless, and there will be nobody that you can turn to for assistance if the boss kicks you out the door in 1/4 mile vis or less in fog. It will be up to you to say no and be prepared to be threatened by some operators who will behave as if they had just escaped from a mental institution .... lots of yelling & screaming, red faced ranting with forehead veins bulging, threatening you with your job, calling you a coward, snide comments like ... "makes 'ya wonder how they got around in the old days doesn't it?" ... showing you a drawer full of resumes and saying each one of these guys wants your job, "well if you won't go now, when will you feel its good enough?" .... etc. Don't be afraid to walk away from a job ... its better than being shrimp food on the bottom of the ocean.

You'll get zero help from Transport Canada if you try and talk to them. In some ways, its still the last of the wild west, where only survivors survive.

One of the best west coast float flying tips I received was when (not if) you are flying in restricted vis down low and over near glassy water conditions ... and unable to fly over the shoreline due to vertical terrain, fly off shore while keeping the shoreline in sight in your peripheral vision.

The closest you should ever allow yourself to get squeezed toward the shoreline is the distance it takes to do a turn toward land, using it as your horizon to make sure you don't descend into the water .... the distance to turn becomes your min vis and absolutely never ever exceed that safety factor ... (backed up by fast glances at the AI) ... fly slowly with some flap extended so your turn radius is at a minimum but obviously leave yourself a good margin of safety above the stall ... especially considering you may need to be ready to turn toward the shoreline at a moment's notice. You can blunder into IMC in fog, rain, or snow very quickly.

Also .... know exactly where you are at absolutely all times. Get very, very good at map reading and memorizing each and every terrain feature along your normally flown routes. The area around your home base should be as familiar to you as finding your butt with either hand.

Talk to people about where you're going .... conditions can be quite dangerous and traps await the overconfident newbie to coastal flying. Ask where the reefs are, the downdrafts, the dock conditions, the possible escape routes, etc.

Rough water is as commonplace on the coast as the number of days with cloud. Learn about how to handle wind-caused waves on top of swells and how to come out of the rough water conditions at a low speed to minimize the pounding on the airframe and loss of speed each time you hit a wave or swell. Again, be ready for flight at minimum airspeed with the stall horn on as you accelerate.

Be wary of some of the floating docks ... at low tide, pilings can reach high enough to snag a wing very easily and with boats on the dock and nobody around to help, it can be hairy, so take your time.

Be aware of the tide tables and its effect on your route of flight and destination ... you can land in one place and an hour later, its high and dry.

Don't fly overloaded ..... Don't accept an aircraft with non-operational flight instruments because "its just a VFR flight." Before every takeoff in poor vis, always do a quick instrument function check while taxiing ... just an S turn or two will tell you if you'll be able to rely on the basic "6 Pack" of instruments which may be needed to just keep the airplane right side up if you encounter a fog bank at low altitude just after liftoff.

Be very, very cautious until you build some experience, and then you can slip back to being just being continually cautious.

It was mentioned before to become proficient at instrument flying. It may well save your life.

Oh, a last really, really biggie ... have a good look at your landing area before putting the floats in the water ... deadheads are no fun.

Learn how to tie proper knots .... not 17 Granny Knots piled one on top of the other. Have a good rope available to you beside your seat.

Taxi with your door cracked so you can be assured of getting out. Take an underwater egress course .... by far one of the most eye-opening things of my life.

Gotta run .... thanks for the walk down memory lane with respect to my days on the coast. Lots and lots more to pass along, but sorry ... just outta time.

Best wishes from
The Old Fogducker .... it was on the coast that the term Fogducker was first heard, and I adopted it almost 40 years ago. .... Man ... where did that time go?

A lot of good advice here.

Myself I do not fly in an unfamiliar area on floats on the west coast unless I have a minimum of five miles visibility until I know the area well enough to fly without a GPS and or a map.

iflyforpie wrote:Make sure you have IFR experience.

180 wrote:Iflyforpie isn't kidding!

Do enough hood work to be comfortable enough to not freak out when you're flying over water at 300 feet and your 2 miles goes to IMC. It can be unnerving as hell and you better be comfortable and competent enough to do a rate one 180 on the dials without losing altitude or freaking out your passengers.

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with this one. I can honestly say that in over 10 000 hours of float flying on the Central and North Coast, I have NEVER entered cloud. If you guys are letting it get to the point where you are entering cloud at 300 feet and then having to do a turn in cloud, then I would suggest finding a new career before this one bites you in the ass. VFR flying is what it is, VISUAL flight rules, and I stress the word visual. You should turn around long before it gets to the point of entering cloud low level.

This is not a safe way of thinking, stay safe and don’t push it out there guys.

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with this one. I can honestly say that in over 10 000 hours of float flying on the Central and North Coast, I have NEVER entered cloud. If you guys are letting it get to the point where you are entering cloud at 300 feet and then having to do a turn in cloud, then I would suggest finding a new career before this one bites you in the ass. VFR flying is what it is, VISUAL flight rules, and I stress the word visual. You should turn around long before it gets to the point of entering cloud low level.

I agree 100%.

I got a good question... I'm building an amateur built Stinson 108-3 on amphibs. In order to meet the 51% rule, i needed to build a new instrument panel. Being that I am not a pilot, I'm wondering what the 'minimum' flight equipment for a 'privately flown' fair weather float plane would be. In terms of 'why the F do you not have one of these installed in here, it would of saved your life.' The plans for this aircraft are to be 'always vfr', but now that the panel is blank and bare, I do have the opportunity to put in some of the 'smart to have' items. What would be the bare minimum that you would have (coastal BC) if this makes a difference. One day I will be flying this plane, but first I have to get my pilots license, which I'm planning on doing this summer in my 'other stinson'..
(I really put the cart before the horse, own one airplane, and I'm building a second, and I don't even have .1 in a logbook for flight time yet.)

I like the basic "six pack" layout... left to right the top three would be airspeed, attitude, altitude, left to right bottom would be turn co-ordinator, heading indicator, vsi...

As far as legal VFR requirements go regarding flight instruments, I think it's only airspeed, altitude & compass... that 's just from memory though...

So you figure the 'basic' six pack should be the bare minimum... (I'm not looking for 'the legal bare minimum', which i can find in the CAR's, I'm looking for the 'smart' bare minimum, in a float plane, flown on the West coast, as a private pilot)

Cat Driver wrote:

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with this one. I can honestly say that in over 10 000 hours of float flying on the Central and North Coast, I have NEVER entered cloud. If you guys are letting it get to the point where you are entering cloud at 300 feet and then having to do a turn in cloud, then I would suggest finding a new career before this one bites you in the ass. VFR flying is what it is, VISUAL flight rules, and I stress the word visual. You should turn around long before it gets to the point of entering cloud low level.

I agree 100%.

10,000 hours of coastal float time and you've never stooged around at minimums over open water on a misty, drizzly, glassy day? Because that's what I'm talking about Bubba and Cat, not flying into a cloud.

Leading a new float pilot to the coast to believe that our weather and decision making out here is as black and white as the above post is, in my humble opinion, doing that pilot a huge disservice. It's a million shades of grey out here man.

The reality is we spend a lot of our days flying around in inclement weather and he's going to have lots of 300 foot, open water (no land in sight) misty, drizzly, glassy, same temp as dew point, stressful-as-hell days. There's no getting around it.

And every once in a while, he's going to go from 2 miles to 1/2 a mile in a split second and his ability to safely execute a 180 is going to be the difference between living to fly another day or unintentionally hitting the water.

So what's his best option now? Revert to his instruments to safely and calmly execute a 180, or ignore all the good stuff staring him in the face (VSI, T+B, ASI), bulge his eyes, try not to shit his pants, crane his neck, look out the side window and hail mary it around?

Just to be clear, I would never intentionally fly into cloud, nor do I condone flying IMC in a VFR aircraft.

Accurately gauging forward visibility and remaining clear of cloud is pretty straight forward with some vertical reference like an island or any shoreline.

Accurately gauging forward visibility at 300 feet over open water on a glassy, drizzly, misty day, not so much.

We all enter this world with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of knowledge. The trick is to fill up that bag of knowledge before your bag of luck runs out.

O.K...

Let me be more specific.

This person asked advice on how to learn to fly the west coast of Canda on floats.

My advice was to remain better than the legal VFR minimums until one learns the area well enough to know their exact location by visual reference to what one can see.

Getting yourself in a situation where outside reference is lost is not flying VFR.

As to flying IFR in a float equipped airplane on the west coast, yes I have done it day after day in IMC weather, however it was in a Twin Otter on a IFR flight plan with an IFR clearance before we took off.

If the weather is so bad that you have to do a 180 on instruments, why not just land, turn on the water then take off in the opposite direction. If its fog or drizzle the water is not likly too rough. If it is too rough you probably should have turned around already about 5 minutes ago.
Bob

Now we're getting into the open water (no land reference) misty, drizzly, glassy water landing scenario; another huge yuck!

Which is the lesser of the two evils?

Glassy water landings, coincidentally, being another VFR scenario where you are depending on your instruments to set you down safely. (VSI + ASI)

It's totally true Cat and Bob, avoiding the scenario all together is your best course of action. And I personally will do everything I can to avoid it, be it going well out of my way to follow shorelines for reference or cancel altogether.

But sometimes the show must go on, and arming yourself with as much training for your worst case scenarios as possible (a little refresher hood time) is better than hoping they don't happen and then shitting your pants when they do.

I wholeheartedly agree though, abstinence IS the best form of birth control. It's just not always the most realistic.

Fly safe all.

Dwesty has been getting more than he bargained for with this thread.

Probably a good thing...