What if I lost my logbook?

cargo_guy · Post by **cargo_guy** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:56 am

Just curious. What would happen for instance if my logbook burned in a fire, or was lost? Would I have to go back to square one? Are photocopies of logbooks legally acceptable as a substitute in the eyes of TC? I have photocopies of my logbook but I keep them at home, only a couple of feet from my actual logbook. Kind of defeats the purpose I suppose. I also made an electronic logbook on MS exel but its too much work to make all the entries from square one.

On a similar note. Are photocopies of your crew licence (& medical) acceptable to TC if you get ramped? For instance, if I where to lose my licence while away on a trip, and I keep photocopies in my flight bag, would TC be ok with this?

Thanks in advance,

Cargo_guy

FAF inbound · Post by **FAF inbound** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:06 pm

I'll bite:

If your one and only logbook spontaneously combusted and you didn't have any way of going back to aircraft logsheets to transcribe your flight history, you are supremely FUBARed. Think about this, if you have a lengthy book as it is.

Photocopies are good for a backup system, but WHY wouldn't you go to the trouble to make an electronic logbook? If you ask me, it's the perfect way to go. It's clean, legible, infinitely flexible for backups... virtually the ultimate duplicate for your "just in case" type of scenario! You can email copies to a hotmail or yahoo account and have worldwide access! Beats trying to get somebody to fax an entire book. I've heard of guys hand writing a second copy for security and work purposes... why? A computer printout does the same thing and eliminates the requirement of precise, consistant writing and if you stick the right formulas in the box... very little in the way of addition mistakes. Whether it be a photocopy or a computer printout, I'm sure TC will recognize it. They sure liked my computer printout!

As for the license thing: Photocopies of all your vital documents (crew licenses, passports etc) is an extremely good thing to have. Unless you lost the license recently and you're out in the field, I wouldn't recommend relying on the photocopies as being legal. I'm under the impression that if the cops don't let you drive without your driver's license, do you think TC will let you fly without the necessary documents? It's part of your top 10 document list that are necessary for flight.

Hope this helps!

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:21 pm

" do you think TC will let you fly without the necessary documents? It's part of your top 10 document list that are necessary for flight. "

I would imagine that if you lost your license and advised TC and requested they issue you a replacement you would be O.K. to keep flying if that is how you earn your living.

I lost mine many years ago and I sure as hell did not quit my job while I waited for TC to send me a replacement.

In the unlikely event you did get ramped while you were waiting for a replacement I would very much doubt that the inspector would charge you if you explained the circumstances.

Cat

Cool Rythms! · Post by **Cool Rythms!** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:42 pm

Cargo Guy, it happened to me in January of 1994. I was at Dorval airport one snowy afternoon, dropping something off for a friend. I don't even think I was in the terminal building for ten minutes. I went back to my car and headed back to the flying school. There was some light snow falling, mixed in with a little sun, so it was a little blinding for the drive. I reached over for my bag, to pull out my sunglasses and that's when I noticed it was'nt there. I also noticed, that the passenger door was unlocked. I don't think that whoever broke in there, was after the bag, because it was on the floor and out of site. So they might have been after the radio, or something else of interest. In that bag, was a pair of David Clarke headphones, some books, my wallet with all my licences, and of course, my logbook. Miraculously, only a few days after making the police report, they found some of my ID's along with my driver's licence and pilot's licence and medical. This, after I had already paid $ 10 each at Transport Canada to replace them. What saved me, was the fact that I had already started a new logbook at this point. When I got back to the flying school, I went to see the chief instructor to tell him what had happened. He called Transport Canada, to find out what action to take. They said to have the new logbook certified and to briefly explain on the first page, what happened. I did this, then brought the logbook to Transport, where they made a photocopy of that page. The good thing, in my case, is that I had done all my ab initio training at that one school and had already been teaching there for quite some time. So the worst case scenario, would have been to retrieve all the flight sheets to verify my hours. Transport said that would not have been necessary, unless I had multiple employers. But I see your point. Maybe what you could do, is have two logbooks, keep one at home and the other in a safe deposit box. I know a few guys who do this.

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:50 am

Couldnt you just swear on a stack of bibles to a judge that you have approx this amount of time and start a new log book. Any thoughts ??

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:30 am

Maybe you could. But I've only seen two remade, sworn on a stack of bibles logbook owners, and their times were reconstructed factoring in inflation, GST, and northern housing allowance, so that by the merest co-incidence, their reconstructed times matched our minimum captain requirements.

Subsequently their training rides, and line indoc revealed that their reconstructed times did not match their flying ability.

Keep a backup, or don't leave your book lying around loose.

FAF inbound · Post by **FAF inbound** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:55 am

Cat has nailed it on the head... I was meerly pointing out you can't just have a photocopy as a longterm replacement. Sure we want to save money and the paperwork can be a pain, but you gotta get the replacements started at least. Every situation can offer flexibility within reason.

As for the books... redundancy, redundancy, redundancy... Just use copies or a computer program to avoid the dreaded 5000 hour cramp! Gotta keep that info safe.

Fly safe

Yoyoma · Post by **Yoyoma** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:16 am

. wrote:Couldnt you just swear on a stack of bibles to a judge that you have approx this amount of time and start a new log book. Any thoughts ??

Might as well swear that you have the requirements for that F-22 job...

cargo_guy · Post by **cargo_guy** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:20 am

Thanks for the info guys. I was just curious. I hope I never lose my logbook but I should have some insurance just in case. I'll keep up the photocopies for now. My logbook will be all filled up within a few months then I can start episode 2. When that happens maybe I'll keep it in a safety deposit box or something to that effect.

I guess I'll have to start plugging away at the electronic logbook. I've been dreading it. I started making entries about a year ago. I got to about the hundred hour mark and that took me several hours to input. As it stands now I have just over 2 grand. Should make for some fun filled days off.

Transport does recognize home made electronic logbooks right? ie// a MS Exel spreadsheet.

Later,

Cargo_guy

FAF inbound · Post by **FAF inbound** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:22 am

Yup, Transport will accept an MS Excel or spreadsheet logbook. As long as it has the same info as you would see in your handwritten book, it should be fine.

You'll be happy, once you're finished.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:24 am

And the real answer is: Swear an afidavid before a lawyer and you're set to go. But I do like the second log book idea a lot better.

jetpilot · Post by **jetpilot** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:30 pm

Buy a scanner, take the time to scan all the pages, is not that long! and you have a legal copie of your original logbook! put on a CD let say each 6 month. two cd by year.

cheers

Cool Rythms! · Post by **Cool Rythms!** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:36 pm

I've been thinking about looking into that electronic logbook as well, as a backup. If it's accepted by Transport, then why not use it. Since I'm not too familiar with it, where would I get the program?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:44 pm

" If it's accepted by Transport, then why not use it. "

It is clearly stated in CAR's that an electronic log is legal.

ski_bum · Post by **ski_bum** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:23 pm

Its now time for me to PLUG my buddies logbook:

Check out Mycanadianlogbook.com

Online PTR and LOGBOOK, TC certified, works good, simple, I recommend it...

Again thats Mycanadainlogbook.com

I hope he pays me for this...

R2000/1830 · Post by **R2000/1830** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:09 pm

I still dont get why people carry there logbook with them, should it not stay at home. I was told you were never to fly with it.

sakism · Post by **sakism** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:36 am

An electronic logbook is as simple as making a spreadsheet on Excel.

Excel is really easy to learn - took me an hour to be able to do everything I wanted to with mine.

Except total hours in a given time frame - if anyone has any ideas on this let me know. (ie. hours flown last 90 days, last year, etc.)

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:43 pm

Just write in whatever you want.

People have been padding their books for eons.....

Zapp Brannigan · Post by **Zapp Brannigan** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:32 pm

Anyone know where you can get a FREE electronic logbook online, just a spreadsheet or something simple that totals hours?

J-os · Post by **J-os** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:24 pm

I keep 3 logbooks. One rough one that i write in everyday, a good one, that I make sure is neat, and then my electronic one...Excel does the trick like everyones been saying.

Maybe i'm going overboard with having 3, but it has worked out so far

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:59 pm

What about is old fogduckers that have about 9 log books. I was told if I loose them, I would be drawn, quartered, squirted with whore lure and left to fend for myself in the female section of a bus terminal toitey. If you get by the smell, you got it licked.

AOW · Post by **AOW** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:48 pm

sakism wrote:

Except total hours in a given time frame - if anyone has any ideas on this let me know. (ie. hours flown last 90 days, last year, etc.)

If you have set up your spreadsheet so that the dates are a complete (month day and year) date in excel's format, then it should be easy enough to write a formula that looks up the given time interval. If you have just included the dates as plain text or numbers, then it may be a bit more challenging...

I used the auto-filter function in excel (Data->Filter->AutoFilter) on the headings for all of my columns, and this allows you to select individual entries or a range of enteries from that column and fliter everything else out. That way, I can select a particular registration, type or whatever and see all of my times for that, or I can select a range of dates by creating a custom filter in the date section, and plug in the dates that I want and the greater-than or less-than opperators.

I can imagine that you could make a section that shows your last 90, 180, 365 days times or whatever that uses the today() command (ie today() - 90, or today() - 365)... I'll post a copy of my logbook and I'll try to write up the recent times section while I'm at it....

sorry, I guess I'm just a computer geek.
btw anybody want to hire a computer geek/low timer? it's a beneficial combo!

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:30 pm

I use an electronic log book as well as a paper one. When I finished my CPL I made a CD with my log book and printed off on a laser printer with a acid free archive paper a hard copy. I put it all in an envelope, and then put it in a safe deposit box.

Do not put just a CD in, as the life time of a CD-R is only about 10 years. Though I plan to update every 12 months or so. A laser pritner because the inkjet printers are not so good for fading etc. The acid free archive paper is just a bit of over kill LOL

Check Pilot · Post by **Check Pilot** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:46 pm

Oldtimer,

Please be careful with the term "old fogduckers" --- that belongs to one of the most esteemed members of our forum here. No doubt he has about twenty log books too that are all dusty in the basement somewhere just like you or I do.

Cheers,

CP

The Old Fogducker · Post by **The Old Fogducker** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:21 pm

Check Pilot:

I was out in the street rolling a drunk and while going through his pockets, my "spider senses" started tingling and I suspected somebody had mentioned my name on AvCanada.....and I was right again! Haven't had the time to post in several weeks. Hope I was missed.

My basement is like a cross-sectional view of an ant hill, a gopher hole or a rabbit's warren. If you can make your way through there without triggering a dozen mantraps, setting off several IR activated alarms, you'll be close to my ultimate defence weapons ... my orange tabby and a black shorthair scale model of a Jaguar.

I had some scum-sucking dog steal my logbook and flight case from my cammo-painted gopher shooting car about 25 years ago and eventually got it worked out through TC without a great deal of heartburn.

Sure wish I could have gone out in the night and caught the little piece of society's bottom dwelling scum in the act. I would have taken a certain perverse pleasure in yanking his head back by the hair and waving a gun barrel under his nose that smelled of fresh cordite & hot oil and having a little "life-changing talk" with him pointing out the error of his ways. Sometimes it takes the creation of a Significant Emotional Event to set someone on their way to becoming the next CEO of a large multi-national corporation.

Yes, I know its illegal to do that. Yes, I know its not politically correct to look down on those not as fortunate as myself due to their poor upbringing and they are only victims of a harsh capitalist oriented system ...yeah, so tough noogies!

On one of my trips to Texas I adopted an attitude expressed by one of the instructors at Flight Safety ... "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six."

Now I just keep a collection of flight sheets in a big box instead of an "old style" logbook. Let those NDP voting, commie-loving, welfare-collecting criminals try and haul those away ... they'll be easier to catch the next time because they'll be doubled up in my driveway with a hernia!

Further, they will likely be mysteriously injured while attempting to evade and resist a citizens arrest made while they were in the process of committing an offence.

Cheers folks!
Fog

What if I lost my logbook?

What if I lost my logbook?

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