Military (non-pilot) thinking of a Flying Career

[careerpilot?]

Hello all,

I'm a long time reader, first time poster. I've been mulling over diving into a career in Aviation over the last few months, and I am wondering if anyone has done the same a bit later in life as a second career who might be able to offer some insight or advice.

My background is that I am 28 (yes, I know, not really "later in life"), married with a 3 1/2 old son. I've spent 10yrs in the military, and I am looking at my contract ending in 4 years. I could sign for my 25yrs, or get out at that time. More and more I have been thinking of getting out lately, 25yrs is a long time in a job that I have lost the passion for. I've wanted to fly since I was my son's age, but life never took me down that path until last fall when I finally got my Private Pilot's licence. That's when I got bit by the bug again, and I flew my butt off, achieving my licence after 50hrs. I have a Bachelor of Arts degree (not really useful to be honest), and I think a fair bit of life experience behind me with two tours overseas and a significant amount of leadership experience.

If I decide to take the plunge, I plan on starting training this fall with a Night rating, CPL, Multi, Multi-IFR and Instructor. I want to do all this in about 3 years, flying evenings (hence the night rating) and weekends. I then hope to have about a year left of solid employment to do some evening/weekend flight instructing, to try to build some hours and take away some of the sting of the inevitable paycut. I would then hope to look at a job flying smaller multis, maybe instructing another year if I have to.

I've read alot of posts on this site already about employment, particularly regarding first jobs, and I really get a doom-and-gloom feeling about the industry. I guess the burning questions I have would be the following:

1. Given acquiring my training with little to no debt, while still employed full time, is it reasonable to make a living and support a small family over the first few years? I've seen some scary posts about making $8000 a year and the like. Is this really realistic? Has anyone made a similar choice and managed? My wife works and makes a decent salary ($40,000 or so). However, it will still be a very significant pay drop from where we currently are.

2. How important to employers is life experience? Would this potentially provide a bit of a leg up for finding that first job, or is TT all they consider?

3. And the final, very subjective, question: Is it worth it? My current job already sees me away from home a great deal, going to some pretty crappy places. Perhaps the only career with a higher divorce rate then Aviation is Military, so I am no stranger to this. However, at least the Military pays very well. So, is the low pay and hardship worth it to do a job that you love?

I guess what it comes down to is that I don't see myself doing my current career for much longer. The problem is, I don't see myself working in an office either. Flying was and is the only thing I've ever been truly passionate about (and, I like to think, good at). Now I'll open the floor and see what you guys have to say!

Thanks in advance

[Flygal]

In all honesty you would be better off going to air crew selection at 8 Wing. Fly for the forces. The pay is better, you'll have a pension, and you already have experience. I'm assuming you're not an officer, but with the degree you have, you can skip that portion of RMC/Civi College and just go on the St Jean for the leadership courses. I think the contract for pilot is something like 9 years, so it's not a massive commitment.

I know you can apply to switch elements and jobs. It's not a bad idea. Things on the civi side are a struggle to get ahead. You are already ahead just by being in the forces. Training is standardized and way better in my opinion.

Just my 2 cents....

[careerpilot?]

Hi Flygal,

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I knew this would come up, but forgot to mention it in my narrative above. I am in fact an officer, so a transfer over to pilot should be a simple matter. Unfortunately, due to the backlog of training in Moose Jaw, they are not taking anybody from "in service" at this time. They are taking applicants through RMC/ROTP, because those candidates have their 4 years of university to complete before they will hit the queue for training.

However, I am still applying every year (it is a yearly competition), and plan to apply each year until my contract end date, but at this point I can't hedge my bets on that working out. It would be very ideal, as my pension and pay would carry on from where they are. This is the ideal situation, but unfortunately may not work out.

Thanks for the input though!

Cheers

[Expat]

At this point, I feel obliged to respond. I joined the CF in 70, to become a pilot. After aircrew selection, I was deemed unsuitable, due to some difficulty recognizing greens and reds. I forgot the name of this deficiency, but it is common. I remustered to logistics, and did a fantastic career as a navy supply officer, with a degree in business admin, and some other studies...
I was lucky to retire at 38, under the then new pension plan, and bought a business. Nearby was an airport, and then I decided to take up flying as the bug bit me again then. I flew for 10 years, got the CPL, did some nice flying with CASARA and others, then joined the UN, when the chance came up.
I never looked back at the fact that I wanted to be a pilot at 18, when I knew little about life. I finally got to fly, as much as I wanted, but got a good career in the CF, a decent pension, and a great third career.
I never gave up until the break point, until it was time.
My advice to you, please do not switch path yet, when you have a family to support, and a good salary... Too early to do so...
Cheers,
expat

[flap10]

Well, you got alot of thinking to do. I spent 5 years in the navy and 8 years for DND as an industrial electrician.The base where I live closed down and I was left out in the cold. I was 34 years old when I started work on my pilot licence and my kids were 13 and 8 years old. Times were tough money wise when I got my first flying job but that was only temporary. It was the best move I ever made and I'm doing alot better now then I ever did at my last job. It might take a life style change and if you can live off your wifes pay, then go for it. When it comes to your 3 1/2 old son, he doesn't care if you make 25 or 75 grand a year.
Anyway, thats my two cents worth. Best of luck to you and your family.

[Gannet167]

Wait for the pilot trade to re-open (Phase 2 backlog holding things up) and remuster. Get your file ready early, collect some reference letters. Your degree makes you qualified for a transfer to officer, depending on your rank as an NCM and courses completed there are potentially a few "leadership" courses to take in St Jean. The OJT can be a long wait but, worth it. Your civy training is counts for nothing but is attractive from a "suitability" perspective as at least you can get a civy licence and it shows a keen interest in aviation. If you go after CF wings, don't get your commercial. It's a waste of time and money. Also, for people who've had issues on phase 1, they have been able to complete a commercial and then re-attempt the course. If you already have one, I believe that door is closed should you have problems. Some guys have gone this route after failing phase 1, and after successfully completing it for the second time topped every flying course through to their F18 qual. Staying in the mob, your pension continues as do all the benefits etc.

[careerpilot?]

Thanks for the replies all. Obviously staying Military is my preferred choice, I'm trying to get over into the Tactical Helicopter world where my Infantry training and experience will also prove useful. As I'm already an officer, if the trade opens up again hopefully I'll get picked up. I intend to continue applying, but if I have to sign another contract to go past 2015 then I'll lose the significant benefits that come along with completing my current contract and won't be eligible again until 2025 or later.

However, I need to start working on my backup plan. While Military pilot is a great go, that also means everyone else is competing for limited spots. With 4 years until my contract ends, my decision point is very quickly approaching if I am going to get my training (all done part-time) and a year of part-time flight instructing done in those 4 years.

So what are some thoughts on the way I intend to approach it? Is it feasible to think I might be able to get a part time (evening/weekend) flight instructing job, or do they mostly only hire M-F daytime people? Any thoughts on a good order to do the training in to best maximize hours (allow X-Country and Instrument hours to apply to more then one qualification)? I'm just looking for some advice on how to best take the sting out of the first few years.

Thanks!

[zed]

Just my two bits and thoughts since I've done most of this thinking already...

Option A. If you and your family like the military life, try to become a military pilot. As mentioned before better pay, and you are already well on your way to having a 50% pension, which if you have flight time would still give you an out. I would send an email to the recruiter, but I'm pretty sure that your civi licence can get get you past the first part of your basic flight training in Portage. But that was awhile back so that policy may have changed. Also being in the infantry may not help, not in getting accepted, but in getting released to change careers. Maybe things have changed and your outgoing branch has no say, but on that score I'm not sure.

Option B. Otherwise, I would probably still stay in the military until you complete all the necessary civilian flight training you need to be marketable. (CPL, Multi, Float, Instructor, and maybe IFR... Or whatever combination you decide is best for your career path). Then get you and your family out of debt, and in a good financial situation, including your wife's work situation since every $ makes a difference. Then you can start your job search while not being so stressed about unemployment, I say not so since you will at this point be counting down until your departure with an unclear view of the future. If you hustle, work your ass off, with a plan in hand, you should be able to set yourself up for a job at the end of four years. Not saying you will get one right away, but at least you will be more then ready to BE employed. Any unemployment gap can probably be covered off by working for a reserve unit where your skills and experiences are needed.

Option C. Out and In. I'm not sure what you are referring to in terms of end of contract pay-out. Return of pension contributions? Nice bonus, but they really aren't lost by going past that date. Especially with the new re-enrolment rules that accompanied the new pension changes. You just don't see them until you hit retirement age, in or out of the service. Or at least that is how I remember it. This option is based on the fact that sometimes sad, but it is occasionally easier to re-enlist after leaving, then to change trades. But needless to say big risks, and no pay while you wait to get in. But this was under the old rules, and I really am not sure about the new rules covering career changes.

But you might still consider staying on past your current commitment and consider those 'lost' $$ as the cost of providing insurance and stability for your transition. May still be cheaper then the stress on the family otherwise. Will also enable you to look for work while having a pay cheque, and then be able to choose your departure date with minimal transition headaches as you will be moving from one job to another.

The first two career paths above are not either or options, you could be doing both at the same time. Which I think is what you are currently doing. Feel free to clarify anything I may have misinterpreted/understood in your situation.

[careerpilot?]

Thanks Zed, some very good advice to think about.

By end of contract pay-out, I'm referring to the severance pay that we get. It works out to 7 days pay for every year served, so almost 4 months pay lump sum with 15 years in. This is separate from pension, which you are correct in saying that that comes as a deferred pension when you hit 65. We also get our final move paid for to any location we wish within two years of release, which can be another substantial bonus. However, we are only eligible for these benefits if we complete our contract. Signing a new one would mean I am only eligible again after 25yrs service.

I do intend on maintaining Class A reserve status, which would allow me to jump into a Class B (full time) position if work is tough to find, or just work part time Class A to help make ends meet. It would also leave the door open for another tour overseas under Class C if the opportunity arises. Additionally, it would allow me to continue building pensionable time since the new Reserve pension is identical to the Regular Force one.

My current plan is, as you say, a hybrid between Option 1 and 2. I am continuing to work towards a transfer to Pilot, but at the same time building my civilian qualifications on the side. A question regarding that: Would it be feasible to do Multi and Multi IFR before doing CPL? This would provide me the flexibility others have mentioned above about being able to uprgrade to commercial and try again on Phase 1 flight training (or even Aircrew Selection) if necessary. Or, is it necessary (or just a very good idea) to do CPL first?

In terms of any flight training that I can skip, I believe Phase 1 can only be written off if you have your CPL, a PPL is not sufficient. I'm not 100% sure, but that is what I have heard through the grapevine.

Thanks!

[zed]

Would it be feasible to do Multi and Multi IFR before doing CPL?

Yes, but personally I would recommend against it. Someone else can freely contradict this, but a bit more time gaining experience is probably better before you tackle your multi. A lot of things get thrown at you, complex geared aircraft, using c/s propellers (times two) with approach speeds that rival what you were probably using before. If you want to help yourself, get some time in different aircraft that will give you exposure to these different aspects, one at a time. May save you time learning in the multi. Will probably reduce the cockpit stress level as well as you are learning. And if the twin has some funky avionics, add that to the list of things to try out on a single. Especially if you decide to do your twin training somewhere you've never flown before.

But if you like excitement and have the cash, and a patient instructor, hell just go do it. But personally I recommend, if you do go and get your multi, you might as well do it somewhere short of 200 hours. Also remember the multi rating your getting is not likely to get used for awhile, unless your lucky with your first job. But at least you already paid the price of admission for that ride, while you have cash.

As for IFR, its like your instructor rating... Not absolutely necessary. I threw those in my original post because at this point you are 'swimming' in the money. Later on you will find it more difficult to justify the expense, especially when you are living from pay cheque to pay cheque... Or perhaps in your case, your wife's pay cheques. Either way gaining your IFR will teach you lots, but you will may find it difficult to maintain. Your instructor rating will teach you lots, but unless its followed up with a job, may in the end be a monetary loss. But its sometimes hard to tell what's around the corner. But those two really are up to you and your plan.

Regarding your military plans... IFR is a very good idea. Far better to learn those procedures on your own, at your own pace, where your next ride isn't a pass/fail. The military will still throw some different things at you in how they want you to do it, but far better to modify what you know then to have to be playing suck the fire hose the entire time you are being trained. Especially where washing out... Well is not good to your dreams.

About the only thing I will say is keep yourself financially solvent, especially as you get near to leaving. Use your current cash flow to fund your training so that after you leave, you have no more debt and no more required $$$ needed to go to training. The family and your marriage will appreciate this immensely.