Did Jazz just poop the bed?

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Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by Hawkerflyer »

Air Georgian is getting geared up to run the mighty Dash 8, Skyservice is running the new AC venture into YTZ and Air Canada is gearing up to run the low cost carrier....who's bright idea was it at Jazz to piss off AC? A possible hurricane shit storm on the horizon for Jazz? I think so.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by countryhick »

Nice try, next...
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by Hawkerflyer »

countryhick wrote:Nice try, next...
Not trying anything, actual facts. I know your a country hick, but next time you find yourself in town you should pick up a paper and have one of the locals read it to you.
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Last edited by Hawkerflyer on Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by TopperHarley »

I highly doubt AC management is doing this to spite or retaliate against Jazz. It's just business. They're just looking for ways in order to become more profitable. Unfortunately for us as pilots, this kind of "business" is bad for us in terms of wages, working conditions, job progression, etc. Fortunately for us as pilots, we kind of have the power to prevent this from happening.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by LegoMan »

Hawkerflyer wrote:
countryhick wrote:Nice try, next...
Not trying anything, actual facts. I know your a country hick, but next time you find yourself in town you should pick up a paper and have one of the locals read it to you.
Bahahaha, spilled coffee.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by teacher »

Hawkerflyer wrote:Air Georgian is getting geared up to run the mighty Dash 8, Skyservice is running the new AC venture into YTZ and Air Canada is gearing up to run the low cost carrier....who's bright idea was it at Jazz to piss off AC? A possible hurricane shit storm on the horizon for Jazz? I think so.
The only thing Jazz employees did was fight for better wages and working conditions. AC got spooked and yes, is in a drive to cut costs so sure, if raising the bar and fighting for better WACON is pooping the bed, well, I guess we did.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by Doc »

I'd be willing to bet, that if Air Canada started up a low cost airline, and wanted to hire Airbus Captains at $45K and FO's at $30K a year, they would have NO PROBLEM filling the seats. IMHO, that's how bad this industry is getting.
Thoughts?
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Post by Beefitarian »

Did you say airbus, $30k? Ok but only if the bond is less than three years wages. I can't work for free you know.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by pika »

Thoughts?
Your payscale might be a bit high.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by Doc »

pika wrote:
Thoughts?
Your payscale might be a bit high.
Sad, but probably true. Where you been pika?
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by slowstream »

Doc wrote:I'd be willing to bet, that if Air Canada started up a low cost airline, and wanted to hire Airbus Captains at $45K and FO's at $30K a year, they would have NO PROBLEM filling the seats. IMHO, that's how bad this industry is getting.
Thoughts?
Doc,

I'm with you on that one, I don't see them having a hard time filling the seats for crap pay (just my opinion), they would likely have a more difficult time finding people with enough experience!

From the other side its tough, its tough when your unemployed and you have a family to support, bills to pay and responsibilities. A person may have no other choice, they definitely won't like it, they won't agree with it and no matter how wrong it is sometime a person has to do what they have to in order to survive.

There's always two sides to a story and the really sad part about this type of a potential situation is the blame and the people that are responsible IMHO is the Corporation.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by SII »

CMA ownership just picked up a couple dash-8s as well. this might be why
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by Mclovin »

Hawkerflyer wrote:Air Georgian is getting geared up to run the mighty Dash 8, Skyservice is running the new AC venture into YTZ and Air Canada is gearing up to run the low cost carrier....who's bright idea was it at Jazz to piss off AC? A possible hurricane shit storm on the horizon for Jazz? I think so.
The fact that you have just picked up on this now and the discussion about sky regional, Georgian, etc. shows how out to lunch you are on this matter. This has been discussed over and over for months now. Good try though!
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by Mig29 »

Hawkerflyer,

no offense bud, but you gotta collect the facts FIRST before you post something like that....
Yes, AC express is rolling out of the YTZ, but that is not news man. Yes, AC wants a LCC but I believe pilots there are a smarter bunch of employees then CR thinks. And this last one with Georgian......is a joke to be as polite as I can. GGN has been trying to get the 705 certificate and has stalled through last time I checked. Only thing that they may get going is a 705 corporate certificate, which is good for them to venture into, but as for Dash-8s....it may be a loooooong time before something like that becomes even remotely of any importance to Jazz.

Cheers
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by scopiton »

just curious Doc, How much are pilots paid in the company you work for, F/o and captain per type ?
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by jet a1 »

doc, why do all your posts basically imply that the current generation of pilots are killing the industry? you comment on the wages we work for or the way we skud run in to airports while the grand old generation does it safer and for more money than us little uninformed pilot puppies. you may have some valid points but you never seem to comment on the fact that each generation inherits the state of the industry from the previous ones. the reason the corporate culture is the way it is, is because generations like yours have made it that way and now the new pilots are forced to deal with it. this includes pay, working conditions, pressure to fly in bad weather...etc. and we will develop our own and then pass it down to the next. i'm not saying that we don't have a role but i'm getting tired of some of your underlying messages that all us newer guys are somehow messing up the perfect utopia you call aviation.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by Hawkerflyer »

Mclovin wrote:
Hawkerflyer wrote:Air Georgian is getting geared up to run the mighty Dash 8, Skyservice is running the new AC venture into YTZ and Air Canada is gearing up to run the low cost carrier....who's bright idea was it at Jazz to piss off AC? A possible hurricane shit storm on the horizon for Jazz? I think so.
The fact that you have just picked up on this now and the discussion about sky regional, Georgian, etc. shows how out to lunch you are on this matter. This has been discussed over and over for months now. Good try though!
Lunch my friend, is the best meal of the day.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by countryhick »

[color=#0040FF
Not trying anything, actual facts. I know your a country hick, but next time you find yourself in town you should pick up a paper and have one of the locals read it to you. [/color]

Stop it please, you're killin me, cant stop laughing, please, no more country jokes......
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by LegoMan »

jet a1 wrote:doc, why do all your posts basically imply that the current generation of pilots are killing the industry? you comment on the wages we work for or the way we skud run in to airports while the grand old generation does it safer and for more money than us little uninformed pilot puppies. you may have some valid points but you never seem to comment on the fact that each generation inherits the state of the industry from the previous ones. the reason the corporate culture is the way it is, is because generations like yours have made it that way and now the new pilots are forced to deal with it. this includes pay, working conditions, pressure to fly in bad weather...etc. and we will develop our own and then pass it down to the next. i'm not saying that we don't have a role but i'm getting tired of some of your underlying messages that all us newer guys are somehow messing up the perfect utopia you call aviation.
jet.
+1 this is very true.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by Mclovin »

Hawkerflyer wrote:
Mclovin wrote:
Hawkerflyer wrote:Air Georgian is getting geared up to run the mighty Dash 8, Skyservice is running the new AC venture into YTZ and Air Canada is gearing up to run the low cost carrier....who's bright idea was it at Jazz to piss off AC? A possible hurricane shit storm on the horizon for Jazz? I think so.
The fact that you have just picked up on this now and the discussion about sky regional, Georgian, etc. shows how out to lunch you are on this matter. This has been discussed over and over for months now. Good try though!
Lunch my friend, is the best meal of the day.
:roll:
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by Localizer »

If you wanna see a true life example of the older pilots sticking it to the new generation .. look no further than the ACPA tentative agreement. Its laced with padding for senior pensions while leaving the junior pilot .. once again in the cold .. fly for some new LCC division for half the wages and less then half the working conditions .. not to mention every new pilot at AC gets the coveted DC pension plan.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by Sulako »

Mig29 wrote: And this last one with Georgian.....only thing that they may get going is a 705 corporate certificate, which is good for them to venture into...
Just fyi, there's no such thing as a 705 corporate certificate. A POC is a POC, no distinction is made between heavy and light jets. GGN already operates a few jets on POCs.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by ScudRunner »

I have written about this before on this site, the way I see it the Canadian industry is going to the way of the US. When you take a flight down to the US you have multiple regional airlines flying for the "mainline" carriers. For example lets look at United they have the following regional partners : ASE, Colgan, ExpressJet, GoJet,Mesa, Shuttle America, Skywest, Transtate Air. United and other carriers farm out the majority of their flying to these regional carriers who bid against each other to operate different routes.

Here in Canada AC farms out all its regional flying to Jazz and a handful of of Tier three operators such as CMA or Georgian. The single sourcing to Jazz has proven a success however Jazz is becoming too expensive and with many other operators able to provide the same service to AC at lower cost its a pure business decision. Jazz moving into the leisure market with Tomas Cook was the same kind of move, they need to diversify their business. I believe Jazz has read the tea leaves and anticipated the coming change and think they will continue to diversify their income source.

Over the next few years AC will begin divvying up their regional flying, Skyservice getting the YTZ flying is just the start. I can see Pacific Coastal out west and CMA in AB and BC, on the prairies Calm Air will compete against Westwind and Transwest, in Ontario Skyservice and Georgian will expand and cover the Maritimes and Quebec. Jazz might just end up with trans border RJ flying who knows but its coming and its nothing personal just business.

That's just my opinion I could be wrong.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by Hawkerflyer »

. wrote:I have written about this before on this site, the way I see it the Canadian industry is going to the way of the US. When you take a flight down to the US you have multiple regional airlines flying for the "mainline" carriers. For example lets look at United they have the following regional partners : ASE, Colgan, ExpressJet, GoJet,Mesa, Shuttle America, Skywest, Transtate Air. United and other carriers farm out the majority of their flying to these regional carriers who bid against each other to operate different routes.

Here in Canada AC farms out all its regional flying to Jazz and a handful of of Tier three operators such as CMA or Georgian. The single sourcing to Jazz has proven a success however Jazz is becoming too expensive and with many other operators able to provide the same service to AC at lower cost its a pure business decision. Jazz moving into the leisure market with Tomas Cook was the same kind of move, they need to diversify their business. I believe Jazz has read the tea leaves and anticipated the coming change and think they will continue to diversify their income source.

Over the next few years AC will begin divvying up their regional flying, Skyservice getting the YTZ flying is just the start. I can see Pacific Coastal out west and CMA in AB and BC, on the prairies Calm Air will compete against Westwind and Transwest, in Ontario Skyservice and Georgian will expand and cover the Maritimes and Quebec. Jazz might just end up with trans border RJ flying who knows but its coming and its nothing personal just business.

That's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Well put.
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Re: Did Jazz just poop the bed?

Post by mbav8r »

.., no where did I see your opinion in there, other than your implied agreement with the practice, "it's just business." Are you saying you agree with it? It's okay for management to take millions in bonuses for degrading our profession, after all it's "just business", right? When someone's flying a Navajo for 14,000.00 a year because someone else is flying a King Air 16,000.00, because someone else is flying an RJ for 18,000.00, it's okay because it's "just business".
Boy, in the name of business, I hope someone comes along and opens up another grocery store and pays there non unionized employees minimum wage and drives those pesky unionized places, like Safeway out of business. Oh wait I think I just read somewhere that Walmart is converting most of their existing stores to grocery stores and any new ones will be as well. All those 18.00/ hr safeway employees should be able to find work at the new Walmarts, and if they should start to try and form a union, well they'll just close that store, citing underperformance, but it's okay according to .., "it's just business"
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