Justifying Flight School

[MSMLA]

Hi all - I've been visiting this form for sometime now, but finally decided to join.

I've been considering my PPL for awhile now. I've done a ton of research, checked out books, visited the flight schools in my area, met the CFIs and just took an introductory flight at the school of my choosing. The instructor was very friendly and easy to talk to. The flight was fun although I didn't get to take much in as I just couldn't believe I was flying! I guess I just need to get used to it...

The only thing holding me up from jumping in head first is the financial side of things. I won't be flying for a profession (already have one of those), so it'd be more of a hobby. And I'm having difficulty justifying the price for a hobby. I've been quoted anywhere from $8,000-11,000 to complete the PPL.

Just wondering if anyone else had the same experience and what got you over the hump?

[boogs82]

MSMLA,

I'm sort of in the same boat that you're in. Flying is going to be a hobby for me as I'm already well into a career that I absolutely love and probably wouldn't change. Financially it was something that I was concerned about. At the pace I'm working, I'm probably looking at minimum $11,000 for all of the training to get my PPL. With a wife and six month old baby, many say I'm nuts for pursuing this now. What motivated me to do it is that we're doing alright financially. Far from broke but far from rich. This was something I've wanted to do since I was a kid and I'm finally going for the dream at 29 years old. Even if I don't keep doing it the rest of my life (not likely to happen) I can check it off on the bucket list as going for something I've always wanted. That was pretty much my motivation for going for it at this point. It's easy to keep putting things off when it cost a lot of money. But at the end of the day it's far worse to look back and say I wish I'd done this instead of just going out and doing it. The other thing is that the costs will keep going up the longer you wait. Might as well just get it out of the way now.

Hope this helps you a little bit.

boogs82

[trey kule]

Flying for you two, like me, is not about it being a hobby. It is closer to an addictive drug. We really dont know why we like it, but boy do we. And the money will just have to come from somewhere.
There are lots of us here. people working for nothing. Living in places you would not believe, eating KD for 7 meals a week, earning peanuts. Just to fly.

Why?. Because it is about who we are, not what we do.. Join the club. Very few of us would ever not do it all over again even with what we know .

Do it. You will soon forget about the money you spent, but you will never forget the joy you have gotten..

Let us all know how things work out for you

[Walker]

Depending on your financial situation, and depending on what you eventually want to do with your license you should at the very least investigate the option of AC ownership. the operating costs for a private machine will be less than those of a commercially operated training aircraft, you will have more control over availability and at the end of the day you will learn a LOT more than if you just show up and pay your $200/hr.
However as anyone on here will tell you it can also bite you in the a$$ so proceed with caution, just be aware that it is an option...

[North Shore]

MSMLA, HAve you looked into gliding/soaring? There are clubs in pretty much every province; to some it is a much 'purer' form of flying than putting around in a 172 or somesuch. Also, a lot cheaper to learn..

http://www.sac.ca/

[zed]

You could also think about ultralights or only getting the recreational permit. Both will reduce your costs. But it also reduces your choices in what/how/when you fly. But with many of the advance ultralights ou there today, most non-aviation folks wouldn't even know that they were ultralights. Just looking at them, they would just think they are small airplanes.

All depends on what you want to do. Figure out what you want, then you'll just have to figure out the how.

If your Private Pilot Licence, is what you want. Then be methodical, save the money up. Then take the necessary time off to get as much done as quickly as possible. Be FULLY prepared for each lesson. This will probably have the biggest impact on keeping your total cost down.

Plenty of advice on this board elsewhere. Just use the search function and skim the posts.

[YYZSaabGuy]

I deferred my PPL for years because I couldn't rationalize the cost - "So I get my license, and then what - fly to Buffalo for a hamburger? What sense does that make?" Finally, a good friend pointed out "You don't do it because it's practical, or because it makes sense....you do it because it's something you want to do." That comment made all the difference - I started, and finished, my PPL and I don't begrudge a nickel of the money it cost. I rent (not quite over the cost impact of ownership yet), fly when I want to (subject to aircraft availability and weather), and dream about the day I can find the time to upgrade to a CPL because it'll make me a better recreational pilot.

Flying as a discipline combines solid intellectual challenge and the ability to develop a new set of skills with pure fun, and incidentally gives you an opportunity to hang out with other people who feel the same way! It provides an infinite variety of opportunities to continue developing your airmanship and keep it interesting. I'm not a wannabe airline pilot - in fact, I don't think I'd care to fly for a living, given current starting wages/benefits and a highly uncertain career ladder, but you can't beat recreational flying for pure fun. I have loved airplanes my entire life and I still feel incredibly privileged to be able to walk through the gate onto the ramp, climb into an airplane, and launch - there's nothing like it.

[MSMLA]

To answer one comment - I did indeed look into soaring but unfortunately the only soaring club near my place is 40+ minutes away. Since I work 9-5 it would make for some long days I'm afraid. Plus I'll probably be moving to NL in the next 2 years and there's no soaring club there (that I'm aware of).

I'm at a stage in life where it wouldn't fit any better - just finished my master's degree, no kids, no mortgage - and that will all presumably come over the next few years as I start settling down, buying a house, etc. But I'm just having a hard time swallowing a price tag that big. I'm going to think it over for the next two weeks and then just decide I think.

Thanks for all the tips you guys. Any others, keep em comin!

[iflyforpie]

If you're going to do it, definitely do it now.

But just realize too that lots of people get their license and due to financial and time pressures rarely or never fly again. This is especially true if they don't own an aircraft due to the recency requirements and often very restrictive rental rules of flight schools.

I started it as a hobby, but I fell into those traps--especially as I had to draft and sign the bloody Magna Carta if I wanted to take the plane anywhere meaningful. But I wound up getting my CPL just before our first kid arrived and first mortgage payment came out, so I get to do my hobby on company time. But even now with aircraft at my disposal for cheap I only fly privately a few times a year.


As others said, there is really no justifying it. I've talked to so many people who wanted to use recreational flying as a device to commute long distances, to save time traveling, or as a justifiable business expense, and I have to tell them the truth. There's a reason why we see so many cars around and not so many light planes.

But for those who are bitten by the desire or drawn by the challenge, the price is well worth it.

[zed]

You want it... Do it!!!

Stop trying to justify the cost... You will not succeed. Hobbies/past times have no financial justification, we get value in the experience. No $$$ are equatable to joy.

If you want to focus on $$, then make sure each dollar gives you the biggest aviation bang. If you can't do that, then forget about it and move on. But I would say that you probably have the bug, and will regret not doing it much later in life, and then still end up doing it.

Much better to simply bite the bullet and get it done. Now!

[MSMLA]

But just realize too that lots of people get their license and due to financial and time pressures rarely or never fly again. This is especially true if they don't own an aircraft due to the recency requirements and often very restrictive rental rules.

This is exactly what i'm afraid of. Have others found flight schools are ridiculously restrictive on renting their aircraft? One of the appeals of flying to me is traveling to a new place, renting a plane and exploring it from above...

[moocow]

Is that even possible? I haven't even try that myself but I can just see each school / rental ask you do a 2 to 3 hour check ride first before letting you even rent.

[zed]

Yes, you may be able to rent from a FTU.

If you did your training there you are likely current for insurance purposes and no check ride before hand will likely be necessary. Not sure why you might do a 2-3 hour check ride, unless the aircraft had a lot of unique things. Maybe like you were planning on going IFR using a G1000, and hadn't touched it for over 2 months, and their aircraft had a different software version. The checkouts are generally to meet insurance requirements, and that they have confidence you will not bend their plane. Then again it all depends on the FTU, the aircraft you are going to fly away is after all what they use to make money.

The FTU may also require a minimum number of hours to be billed per day while it is away. Maybe something like you will need to pay 3 or 4 hours for every day the plane is away. Whether or not you flew it that much. (e.g. you take plane for 4 days. Minimum daily rate is 4/day. So you will be billed at least, 16 hours of flight time, regardless if it only took you 4 hours to get there, and 4 hours back) This is to compensate for the loss of revenue on the plane for the time its away with you. It may be negotiable downwards during times of off demand. e.g. not summer or nice weather, not over Fri-Sun. But that really is situationally dependent on the circumstances.

I've seen dry billing and wet billing. Dry billing you are responsible for all costs of fuel. Wet billing, they will pay (maybe only up to their rate) for fuel, but will of course need the receipts. Depending on how they do their accounting both have advantages/disadvantages. Of course any landing fees or other charges are your responsibility.

Of course all of this will depend on which FTU you are planning on renting it from. If they only have one or two aircraft, they would be less likely to want to see them fly away. May also depend on how long you are going to take it for, and where in the maintenance cycle it is. If they have a larger fleet then you will likely have more possibilities. Of course they may not let go their high demand aircraft, and be very unwilling to negotiate down their daily charges, since they are in high demand in relation to their fleet.

They may also want to agree with you on exactly where you will be landing, and bedding down their aircraft. Nothing special, they just want to make sure that you are taking care of their plane.

Hope it helps.

PS As for just being somewhere and renting a plane. No big whoop if you are in Canada. Yes, you will have to do a checkout but then just go flying. Plan ahead, as planes at busy schools can be booked quite heavily. Checkout besides being mandatory, is probably a good idea, as it will orient you to the airport, local procedures and landmarks. Generally worth the money, especially if you aren't a regular or high time pilot, makes a good refresher whenever you do one. Flying in another country is more problematic, but doable. Although generally requiring a lot more planning before just showing up.

[Beefitarian]

I personally decided when I went to Disneyland with the kids to go to Catalina in a 172. They suggested a check ride etc. I don't have a valid medical so that was not even an option. I just took the instructor for my trip.

It was 1.3 by the time I go do some slow flight and whatever else they want to see it would almost for sure take that long before I even get started. Then I would have to return to the airport dump the instructor and leave again. Unless you want to go for 5 hours or take a load of people I think in a lot of cases especially if you're in a foriegn place, I'd just take an instructor.

The added bonuses are, they know the area and local proceedures, "Let's go around this busy area." etc. and you can make them run the radio while you just fly the plane. I think it's worth the instructor rate for 3 hours for sure. It rarely hurts to go up with a strange instructor, you can learn new things from them that you may never have been exposed to anywhere else.