Another ridiculist candate???

[schleprock]

As a private pilot, i generally think of the minimum equipment list as the "bare bones essentials" for safe operations of a commercial aircraft.

However, today I was scheduled on a flight from Atlanta-YYZ on a Delta CRJ, and once we were all boarded and sitting comfortably, the captain came on and said that the plane had a maintenance issue. He says that the there is a problem with .........


Wait for it............

"that the curtain that separates business class from economy is missing, and that it is on the MEL, and hence we can't fly until it's fixed". According to the captain, the delta maintenance attempted to find a curtain, and then later to get an "exemption" from the manufacuturer (Bombardier) and the FAA to fly without it, but after 3 hours of waiting, they eventually put us on another plane (of the exact same type and same crew, so it wasn't a cancellation or merging of scheduled filghts).

Having said that, and knowing nothing about Commercial Ops, I got thinking, are there other items in the MEL's out there, that have nothing to do with the ability to operate the plane safely?

Look forward to the responses.

[Nark]

Yes there are.
Flash lights, engines, stuff like that.

CRJ ATL-YYZ?

Wow, what an uncomfortable ride.

[CID]

The MMEL provides relief for "Passenger Convenience Items" like components that provide "convenience" or "comfort" and for "Non-Essential Equipment and Furnishings" which include similar items and certainly the class divider curtain.

I think there are 3 possible scenarios:

1. This particular company didn't carry over those items when they produced their MEL.
2. This particular company removed them specifically for some reason.
3. The pilot is a moron.

You can check out the MMEL yourself here:

http://wwwapps2.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/2/ ... 600_RJ.pdf

[Chaxterium]

FYI, I'm pretty sure the Captain would have said that the curtain is NOT in the MEL. If an item is not listed in the MEL then if it is broken or damaged in any way that aircraft can not fly since there would be no procedure specified for flying without it. If an item IS listed in the MEL then the aircraft may be allowed to fly with the item broken or damaged provided certain criteria are met. For example engines are not listed in the MEL because obviously if there's anything wrong with the engines, you ain't goin' anywhere. However engine instrumentation will definitely be in the MEL. In our MEL we can fly without a fuel gauge however there is a procedure that must be followed ie, visual inspection of the fuel in the tank before and after each leg.

So in your case I'm guessing that when the pilots were informed the curtain was missing they checked the MEL immediately, saw that it wasn't listed and said "awww crap......."

Cheers,
Chax

[JayVee]

I couldn't imagine the mayhem that would result from having all those commoners staring at you as you bite into your caviar-laded tuxedo cracker, slathered with Gray Poupon, all the while wondering if you'll get shanked for your hot towelette and sparkling Perrier.
The curtain serves a purpose far beyond aesthetics. It provides a protective barrier to seperate the elite, super-elite and the super-duper-elite from the sardines behind them.
Good call, Mon Capitan. Crisis averted.

[mbav8r]

I don't know exactly how Delta Connections ops are, but for ???? we have cabin discrepency forms, that are filled out by the Flight Attendant and if any of the items are a shaded item, they have to be addressed by maintenance before we go. As an example a burnt out no smoking light at seat 4a, clearly not an airworthy item, but won't likely be in the MEL either. We have some F/As that will hand you a discrepency form 5 mins before door closing, with shaded items on them, now we're on the radio getting maintenance over to clear the item. If they hand us a form going into a non-maintenance base we are screwed, even for a light bulb, which everyone knows there is "No Smoking" on an airplane.
This may or may not have been the case with the curtain, personally, I think it was and if I think of it when I go back to work, i'll look for it on the form.

[RVgrin]

Although I remain extremely reluctant to ignore any aviation rule (because many have been "written in blood" for non-obvious reasons) isn't this 'missing curtain' an example of one of those cases when it just makes more sense to knowingly break the rule and claim "no harm; no foul"?

What would happen if the crew had simply taken off and flown the route?

After giving a free glass of champagne to every first class passenger and asking if they would prefer to go without the curtain, or wait 3 hours... would anyone care?

I mean, even if the most anal Transport Canada official witnessed such a violation, is there any chance that a fine would result?

[. ._]

I couldn't imagine the mayhem that would result from having all those commoners staring at you as you bite into your caviar-laded tuxedo cracker, slathered with Gray Poupon, all the while wondering if you'll get shanked for your hot towelette and sparkling Perrier.
The curtain serves a purpose far beyond aesthetics. It provides a protective barrier to seperate the elite, super-elite and the super-duper-elite from the sardines behind them.
Good call, Mon Capitan. Crisis averted.

+1

[Nark]

I'm thinking that it was more of a middle finger gesture to management.


Also, as pilots when making PAs are you %100 honest, or do you say something that won't alarm the passengers?

Which reminds me of a joke:
How do you keep a secret from the FA's?



Make a PA.....

[zed]

Did a cross pond one last month (Munich-Toronto). There was some sort of delay with the AC aircraft, ended up being delayed for an hour... Wait for it...

When we got on board the Captain announced that they had had a problem with the onboard water supply, so no water for coffee, tea or washing your hands (thought they were separate, but whatever). He said that it would have taken another few hours to fix, so they decided to press on with the flight rather then delay further.

Sanitation towelettes lasted all of about the first hour of the flight.

I wish that had been a MMEL item, that couldn't be deferred. Personally I think the decision had more to do with AC deciding it was better to fly and sour customer relations, then to fix the problem and risk going over a 4 hour delay and incur the penalties (under EU pax rights bill, direct payout to passengers would total ~200,000 Euro, not including meals and drinks, assuming same day departure).

Never realized how often I used the bathroom until I had nothing to wash my hands with...

[LisaS]

The trick is to not pee on your hands silly.

[Beefitarian]

So you don't mind a guy rubbing your sandwich with his penis as long as it's not going off?

[mbav8r]

Zed, I'm not sure what your point is, are you angry that they completed the flight?
The old saying "be careful what you wish for" comes to mind. While I agree no water on a flight is a inconvience, but would you rather spend another night in Munich?
I wrote my MP opposing the Canadian version of the PBofR, because of various reasons, one of which was, the decision to go with mechanical issues will be based on how much it will cost in penalties. I also pointed out that the consquences of such a bill will more than likely be airlines cancelling flights instead of taking a delay that would incur penalties. From a company standpoint, if they cancel the flight the next several flights will be running at 100% capacity, so it's a win for them other than angry passengers. Guess what, I see it on the news in the U.S alot, just cancel the flight and fill up the next bunch.
Or..... are you mad that they didn't delay it long enough for you to get a payout that would likely be more than what you paid for airfare in the first place.

[zed]

I guess my upset is... I risked my health for a company to keep a few bucks in their coffer. So no, not getting a pay out was not why I was upset.

I would have preferred to have overnighted in Munich, then to know that every germ is being passed from person to person, from customer to staff and then back to us.

I have no problem with continuing a 9 hour flight without water, but not making sure they had more then sufficient means to ensure a reasonably sanitary/germ free environement on an aircraft with more than 300 pax, I am not cool with.

The fact that the jetstream delayed them further, and I missed my connection in Toronto, and had to cool my heels for additional 5 hours, was just icing on the cake. But at least that one, I understand and have no beef over.

[Beefitarian]

I agree with zed here. You touched your sweaty bent bacterial ladened genitalia, wash your stinkin' hands!