Participate in Two-Seater in Havelock, NB?

[roelsl]

Hi Guys,
As a new pilot in New Brunswick, I recently visited Havelock Flying Club, as some of you suggested on this forum.
Great breakfast and a great place to fly it seems. I'll be a member there soon.
Unfortunately, there is no rental airplane at Havelock. All of the pilots own their machine. So that brings me down to that idea of buying a very simple two seater airplane (type Cessna 150) to do recreational flying. Now, to make the cost of ownership somehow less hard, I was thinking of 'renting' it to other pilots. Or maybe 'renting' is too commercial. I mean I would give a maximum of 3 other pilots the chance to fly it at a minimum cost (only fuel and maintenance cost). The names of these pilots would also go on the insurance papers.

Now my two questions:
1/ Do you think I can find pilots interested to fly a two-seater in Havelock at a very attractive price?
2/is this a good idea or not?

As always, I appreciate your feedback!

LR

[ehbuddy]

Its a great idea. Havelock is a great little airstrip. A 150 would be great airplane to start out with.

[invertedattitude]

I'd be one of your pilots, if your serious shoot me a PM I'd be happy to chat, I have several coworkers who would also be interested

[C-GGGQ]

man if I could count on being around I'd love to join in but I'm in flux job wise. I'm sure you can find people.

[invertedattitude]

I can just about guarantee you three commercial rated pilots, two of which are 1000+ hour pilots with current instructor tickets... all of us are ATC.

If it expanded, I can also let you know there are a couple of "major" airline pilots in the city who we've been working with trying to get some sort of club on the go.

[roelsl]

Thanks for the replies!
From how I see it, there are basically two options:

1/ I buy a C150 and form like a flying group around it with a limited number of pilots flying the plane. We keep it low profile. I don't know if I can 'rent' it to friends/colleague pilots without calling it a 'commercial use' operation (commercial insurance is much higher than personal use). I wanna do it by the book and legal...

2/ I buy an airplane, put it in a LLC, rent it commercially to all interested pilots and even contact/invite instructors that can use the airplane to instruct new pilots. Might be a great way for Havelock to become a flying club where a rental plane and 'flight school' is on-site.

In any option, the airplane has to be flown to keep the costs acceptable. Speaking about that, during winter months, maybe the plane could be flown from another (winter maintenanced) airport?

LR

[invertedattitude]

Therein lies the problem we had, it's tough finding reasonable hanger space for the winter months in the Moncton area.

I'd still be interested even if it was fair weather only.

[LousyFisherman]

I am currently treasurer for a C150 partnership.

Buy the plane
Form a partnership: up to 5 is cheapest but for insurance but it is not too much more for up to 10
Don't need a hangar (buy good covers) but it should be at an aerodrome that is open in winter
Our costs for a 10 person partnership (no hangar) are:
$50 /month fixed
$30/flying hour dry

With the above rates our reserves will more than replace the plane at engine TBO

HTH
LF

[invertedattitude]

Does that include ramp fees/insurance?

[down north]

FYI - I pay under $200 per year for liability insurance on a Cessna 150 through Marsh Insurance (COPA Silver Wing Program).

My biggest cost is AVGAS which is getting pricey in the north yet still cheaper then renting down south. Thinking about a MOGAS STC.

[invertedattitude]

Cool, thanks.

[LousyFisherman]

Does that include ramp fees/insurance?

Includes everything. Insurance is about $2000, annual about the same.
They are covered by the fixed monthly charge. Tie down, CFS, registration
etc are included in that too. Usually have a surplus of $500-$750/year
from the fixed charge..

Of the flying hour charge $15.50 is put into engine and prop reserves.
The rest is used for maintenance outside the annual. We do not cheap
out, we fix anything that breaks. Mind you the interior is looking a little
ratty but we are getting close to TBO on the engine. Over time we
break even on the operating charge.


LF

[invertedattitude]

Interesting, with MFC charging extortion rates on their 172's ($170/hr with tax) I need something to make it worthwhile to go flying!

[Beefitarian]

I hear what you're saying but part of the difference is, MFC (insert any flight training unit) needs to turn a profit. Lousy and company want to fly at the lowest cost while having a decent plane to do it in. I'm hoping they upgrade to a little better plane for a pilot who's life revolves a bit too much around what's for supper.

[invertedattitude]

Charging $170/hr for a 172 not even worth $30,000 is a little more than turning a profit... But people pay it, so all the power to them

[Living 5500ASL]

Interesting, with MFC charging extortion rates on their 172's ($170/hr with tax) I need something to make it worthwhile to go flying!

Please at least tell me that is the rate for the 172S and not the M and N models. Otherwise wow how things have changed in such short time.

[roelsl]

Wow, great discussion with a lot of good information here, thanks for all the replies. I'll PM some of you guys to discuss this further.

* Would it be an option to keep the plane in the summer at Havelock and during wintermonths at Moncton?
* As far as insurance is concerned, is there a difference between a partnership with 10 pilot friends or a corporation that rents it to 10 pilot friends?

LR

[Beefitarian]

I'm not defending it, I'm just expressing what I'm seeing. Mount Royal is a University now and seems to be focusing on increasing revenue like most other institutes.

[invertedattitude]

Interesting, with MFC charging extortion rates on their 172's ($170/hr with tax) I need something to make it worthwhile to go flying!

Please at least tell me that is the rate for the 172S and not the M and N models. Otherwise wow how things have changed in such short time.

Last time I flew with them (emphasis on the last) after I spent 45 minutes getting weird looks for not knowing how to "Log in to the software to read my 156 Memos" Also feeling like an outcase because I wasn't wearing a uniform like the other student pilots (I've been meaning to sew some bars onto my ripped guiness t-shirt...)

After all that, including having to basically beg them to tell me what plane I was priviledged to fly, I was given a C172 M/N or some other Vietnam era Cessna product not an S model, spent .3 taxiing out (I won't blame ATC, it was rather busy at the time, lucky I got out at all) spent .4 in the air doing a quick photo op up the coast, then .3 back to the ramp... total cost was $171.68.

I've got no problem with a company trying to turn a buck, that's the name of the game... but that's no different than charging $10 for a loaf of bread just because you're the only baker in town, not to mention it's pretty old moldy bread on top of that...Perfectly safe mind you, I will admit I've never questioned their maintenance as far as working parts go, outside of that... well it's a training aircraft what do you expect

I've been casually working/praying for some sort of flying consortium to get going so I can actually enjoy flying what it's best used for.... FUN

[DeDe]

roelsl / invertedattitude: Could you please send me a message. I just signed up to the forum and it won't let me send private messages because I'm new...

[Cod Father]

If I was living back there, I'd be game to join Havelock in a heartbeat. Would love to build a hanger there.

I'm afraid I've graduated to Citabria though for that lovely grass strip.

A number of unmapped aerodromes, both paved and unpaved south and west of YQM worth exploring.