How is this legal?

[flyinggreasemonkey]

"As a 100% First Nation owned organization, it is the policy of Wasaya to hire the most qualified candidate for
the position, but to give preference to First Nation candidates, especially those from our owner communities."

So much for equality....if a company posts an ad for something and states they give preference to white people, sure enough they'd get smacked with the racism stick.

I suppose there's probably some act sitting around saying that they can do this, but don't you just love double standards applied to keep minority voters happy?

[cdnpilot77]

Affirmative action is alive and well in Canada...it does have a place in our society, although in theory it shouldn't be necessary, as long as the "most qualified" candidate is hired.

[thirdtimecharm]

"As a 100% First Nation owned organization, it is the policy of Wasaya to hire the most qualified candidate for
the position, but to give preference to First Nation candidates, especially those from our owner communities."

So much for equality....if a company posts an ad for something and states they give preference to white people, sure enough they'd get smacked with the racism stick.

I suppose there's probably some act sitting around saying that they can do this, but don't you just love double standards applied to keep minority voters happy?

With all due respect, I don't think that there is a huge wave of native pilots out there who are going to displace non-native folks any time soon. With the average turnover in most northern carriers, there is a straight forward business case for hiring pilots who come from the communities that the airlines serve- might be a better chance of them sticking around and provide the connection between the airline and the customers.

Also, of all the talk in this forum about native people being a drain on the Canadian taxpayer's teat, encouraging people to get a career in the one major industry that operates in their home communities probably isn't a bad thing.

As for appeasing native voters, not sure that any political party is rushing to grab that vote

I grew up in Nunavut and don't really understand the feeling of not wanting to support local kids getting into the industry- I was lucky growing up to have the guys at Keewatin Air helping me with my homework and giving advice for flight training.

[KK7]

Although I understand your point of view and frustration, there is a very big difference between discrimination against race versus preference to a certain culture.

With race, you're discriminating purely on the basis of skin colour, which doesn't indicate what type of culture that person is from. With culture, the differences are more about the person's background, upbringing, and generally understanding the customer.

[flyinggreasemonkey]

huh?

Hiring natives over non-natives is a racial issue...not a cultural issue.

[daedalusx]

It's such a non-issue.
How many times have I seen first nation candidates steal my job, paying an insane bond/and/or VCP or just simply paying to work ? ZERO

How many times I've seen bottom feeding Euros, paying their PPCs, paying hundreds of hours of time building? Dozens of times and I'm not grey haired.

They want to hire aboriginals ? Good for them. Montreal Police hires 90 pounds soaked female Officers because of quotas. Same thing for the Fire Dept, the Army Infantry, etc, etc. Is it fair ? No. Is it a threat to decent working conditions & wages? Nope.

[Darkwing Duck]

It really burns my britches when I see a company advertise something like this "We are an equal opportunity employer. If you are of a visible minority, race, gender etc etc etc please apply." I call bullshit because this is discrimination in itself and should never be allowed on an application. A company should hire the most qualified person they feel will be able to do the job and that is that. I have no problems with anyone having a job if they are qualified. I have a problem with someone having a job and not being qualified no matter your race, colour, religion etc etc etc.

In the early 90's I went to write the RCMP entrance exam. There were about 20 of us in the room, 4 of whom were female. No one was of visible minority. To paraphrase the constable in the room overseeing the exam, prior to our start clearly stated we gentlemen were wasting our time, with the exception if we did EXTREMELY well, because the RCMP at the time was not hiring white males. He said the women had a chance. Turned out, I did pass the exam, but guess what, I did not make the interview process. Who would of thunk? I would be curious to know how many people I beat in the exam mark that were in the minority that went on to the interview process.

I have no problem with any women being a member of the army, a police force or a fire department or the like. But the physical entrance exam should not be lowered or changed for a 115lbs woman who cannot pull or keep up to what the regular exam constitutes. If I was in a fire unconscious, I don't care who you are but you better be able to pull my limp ass out of there.

[Dagwood]

I like the job ads (not necessarily pilots) where they encourage "disabled or handicapped" people to apply. Sure they can apply, but they probably aren't the most suitable to physically demanding work.

Probably the same thing here. Not saying they don't exist, but I have yet to see an aboriginal pilot.

[thirdtimecharm]

I like the job ads (not necessarily pilots) where they encourage "disabled or handicapped" people to apply. Sure they can apply, but they probably aren't the most suitable to physically demanding work.

Probably the same thing here. Not saying they don't exist, but I have yet to see an aboriginal pilot.

But you've hopefully heard of them? There are a few Chief Pilots (no pun intended) and senior captains out there... this is just off the top of my head.

Sean Loutitt
Ray Cameron
Norman Grist
Colin Gunn
Johnny May
Mike Innukshuk
Russ Bomberry (sp?)

I don't know anyone who would question their qualifications and I don't think that anyone on that list goes waving any flags either.

[AEROBAT]

I like the job ads (not necessarily pilots) where they encourage "disabled or handicapped" people to apply. Sure they can apply, but they probably aren't the most suitable to physically demanding work.

Probably the same thing here. Not saying they don't exist, but I have yet to see an aboriginal pilot.

Actually I know quite a few native pilots.

[fanspeed]

I find the idea of race to be outdated.

I have also seen many friends working up north who were there to build time and move on-me included at the time. Looking back, it was some of the best flying in my career. Many of the pilots there had no respect for a way of life and a people they did not understand. I worked with several people who originated in these communities, who worked their butts off to get their high school diploma (doesn't sound like a challenge, but in some of these places it is quite an accomplishment to finish high school) then go on to a program where they were trained as a pilot or ame or both, and move on to bigger and better things. So if they can be given a leg up, into a company that serves it's own community, I have no problem with that. They will give better service to the community than some other kid who doesn't care about the people and place he or she may be serving.

[rallyjeff]

I suppose there's probably some act sitting around saying that they can do this, but don't you just love double standards applied to keep minority voters happy?

"Some act sitting around" is the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

(2) Subsection (1) does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

[cdnpilot77]

Probably the same thing here. Not saying they don't exist, but I have yet to see an aboriginal pilot.

There are some regulars on these boards that are native...the issue is, it shouldn't be an issue...nor should they need to advertise themselves as natives. The root of the problem is history and opportunities like this are made available so history does not repeat itself. Unfortunately, too many people still think anyone that is not white is worth 3/5ths of a white person.

[tsgas]

Using racism (discrimination or prejudice on race) as a company practice for hiring will only lead to injustice.
Respect is a two way street and racism only breeds more racism.

[AEROBAT]

Most towns and cities, when advertising for municipal employees, state that preference will be given to residents of the town or city hiring. You could call that a form of discrimination as well.

If a band or reserve wants to put money toward a business enterprise I can understand them wanting to hire as many local people as possible. If they didn't what would be the sense of starting a business?

[AEROBAT]

It really burns my britches when I see a company advertise something like this "We are an equal opportunity employer. If you are of a visible minority, race, gender etc etc etc please apply." I call bullshit because this is discrimination in itself and should never be allowed on an application. A company should hire the most qualified person they feel will be able to do the job and that is that. I have no problems with anyone having a job if they are qualified. I have a problem with someone having a job and not being qualified no matter your race, colour, religion etc etc etc.

In the early 90's I went to write the RCMP entrance exam. There were about 20 of us in the room, 4 of whom were female. No one was of visible minority. To paraphrase the constable in the room overseeing the exam, prior to our start clearly stated we gentlemen were wasting our time, with the exception if we did EXTREMELY well, because the RCMP at the time was not hiring white males. He said the women had a chance. Turned out, I did pass the exam, but guess what, I did not make the interview process. Who would of thunk? I would be curious to know how many people I beat in the exam mark that were in the minority that went on to the interview process.

I have no problem with any women being a member of the army, a police force or a fire department or the like. But the physical entrance exam should not be lowered or changed for a 115lbs woman who cannot pull or keep up to what the regular exam constitutes. If I was in a fire unconscious, I don't care who you are but you better be able to pull my limp ass out of there.

That is part of the reason the RCMP has become such a joke.

[SuperchargedRS]

Racism is cool if you as long as you are a minority.

I am thinking I should post a aid hiring people of aryan nation heritage, it's a culture not race right???? lol


I vote people should be blind of race/heritage/whatever BS you want to call it or just open the flood gates to all the bigots and racists


This employer should be ashamed of himself for posting this raciest crap

[Dhc6to8]

... the North American native tribes are a conquered people... when are they going to accept that and get over themselves? I am half Cree and have never ever used that as an angle in obtaining a job.... Hell, back in '90 I did the whole nine yards in Manitoba for the RCMP and was told by the recruitment officer to forget it as the RCMP was not interested in whites... I did the interview and exams and bombed out in the interview... thought that if they are not interested in me as a person why tell them that I am half native?? Canada has gone completely overboard with this minority BS... it's the individual that counts, not the heritage, race, creed or colour of skin...
6to8

[thirdtimecharm]

Racism is cool if you as long as you are a minority.

I am thinking I should post a aid hiring people of aryan nation heritage, it's a culture not race right???? lol


I vote people should be blind of race/heritage/whatever BS you want to call it or just open the flood gates to all the bigots and racists


This employer should be ashamed of himself for posting this raciest crap

So Wasaya, First Air, Air Tindi, Canadian North, Kenn Borek Air, Air Labrador, Provincial Airlines, Air Inuit and the EIC gang are all racist companies? They all have a goal of hiring more local people.

I understand your fear, the levels of "aryan" or whatever you want to call it pilots has dropped to an all time low of 93% in Canada.

As an employee of First Air I would take exception of your characterization of Wasaya as the "raciest" company. We are the raciest company of them all! Superfast!

Things are tough all over.

[KK7]

There is indeed a difference between racism and culturalism. Those who don't see that have a very narrow and naive view of the world.

You're a white Torontonian, and your neighbour is black, native, hispanic or whatever. He/she went to the same school, had the same opportunities, but got a job opportunity over you because he/she looked different. That is racism, but you are both of the same culture.

You're a white Torontonian, and there is another guy who is native and grew up on a reserve. Now he may look different, he may be of a different race, but he is also of a different culture. He has different experience and values than you do, and is arguably more qualified for the job because he can identify with the customer.

Sorry folks, but welcome to the real world, where sometimes where you come from, makes a difference.

[moocow]

I vote people should be blind of race/heritage/whatever BS you want to call it or just open the flood gates to all the bigots and racists

While I truly agree with this statement, I believe that's still long way off. If we instantly level the playing field, they will never close the gap in terms of wealth. On the flip side, how long should such program exist until the playing field is leveled? Aboriginal Canadians are still long way off in terms of wealth and education and these programs are needed. Yes, Affirmative Action stinks of reverse racism but we have to consider how long they been shafted by society. Hell, they been shafted way longer than Chinese, East Indians and other ethnic races in Canada. However, Affirmative Action can't and shouldn't go on indefinitely.

In regards to RCMP, a guy I know from university is now serving in that organization. He probably applied around 2006 or 2007 and he's tall and white.

[SuperchargedRS]

Racism is cool if you as long as you are a minority.

I am thinking I should post a aid hiring people of aryan nation heritage, it's a culture not race right???? lol


I vote people should be blind of race/heritage/whatever BS you want to call it or just open the flood gates to all the bigots and racists


This employer should be ashamed of himself for posting this raciest crap

So Wasaya, First Air, Air Tindi, Canadian North, Kenn Borek Air, Air Labrador, Provincial Airlines, Air Inuit and the EIC gang are all racist companies? They all have a goal of hiring more local people.

I understand your fear, the levels of "aryan" or whatever you want to call it pilots has dropped to an all time low of 93% in Canada.

As an employee of First Air I would take exception of your characterization of Wasaya as the "raciest" company. We are the raciest company of them all! Superfast!

Things are tough all over.

-yes-


If you need to use your race to get a job, its time to hang it up anyway

If you are a employer and are only looking for one race (or culture, whatever) you are a raciest, it's that simple, dont bother trying to blow enough smoke up our collective asses to think otherwise.

Also think about this little tid bit, know anyone who was a slave or was personally alive while their race/tribe was conquered? Know anyone who personally owned slaves or conquered anyone???

NO you dont, because all the slaves, all the slave owners are DEAD, long dead. It's confused overly PC, morons likes these companies that keep racism alive and these people are worst then those skin heads, I cant recall of a time a skinhead caused me to not get a job, but I remember quite a few listings that wont hire me because I'm white.

I have a job and I didnt get it because of my heritage or my skin color, I got it because of my experience and skill and that's how it should be

[tsgas]

Supercharged that was a great post. It's high time that a member of the silent majority spoke up against all this injustice.

[thirdtimecharm]

Racism is cool if you as long as you are a minority.

I am thinking I should post a aid hiring people of aryan nation heritage, it's a culture not race right???? lol


I vote people should be blind of race/heritage/whatever BS you want to call it or just open the flood gates to all the bigots and racists


This employer should be ashamed of himself for posting this raciest crap

So Wasaya, First Air, Air Tindi, Canadian North, Kenn Borek Air, Air Labrador, Provincial Airlines, Air Inuit and the EIC gang are all racist companies? They all have a goal of hiring more local people.

I understand your fear, the levels of "aryan" or whatever you want to call it pilots has dropped to an all time low of 93% in Canada.

As an employee of First Air I would take exception of your characterization of Wasaya as the "raciest" company. We are the raciest company of them all! Superfast!

Things are tough all over.

-yes-


If you need to use your race to get a job, its time to hang it up anyway

If you are a employer and are only looking for one race (or culture, whatever) you are a raciest, it's that simple, dont bother trying to blow enough smoke up our collective asses to think otherwise.

Also think about this little tid bit, know anyone who was a slave or was personally alive while their race/tribe was conquered? Know anyone who personally owned slaves or conquered anyone???

NO you dont, because all the slaves, all the slave owners are DEAD, long dead. It's confused overly PC, morons likes these companies that keep racism alive and these people are worst then those skin heads, I cant recall of a time a skinhead caused me to not get a job, but I remember quite a few listings that wont hire me because I'm white.

I have a job and I didnt get it because of my heritage or my skin color, I got it because of my experience and skill and that's how it should be

Fair enough… but…

None of those companies are looking for only **one** race or culture or heritage. They are saying that they want to make sure that they hire **some** people from the areas that they serve. In any other context, I can’t think of anyone being upset about hiring someone from “home” rather than someone from a couple of thousand miles away. In any other context, hiring someone who speaks the same language as your customers would not be a bad thing.

As for “needing to use your race to get a job” I don’t think that anyone is suggesting that either. Why can’t a native pilot be qualified? If you have a stack of 300 hour pilot’s resumes on your desk, how do you decide who is the most qualified? You look at their other experience and the other things that they bring to the company. You get the experience and skill through getting a break, and getting a chance to prove yourself.

As for your conquered people thing… I was alive when “we” signed an agreement with Canada in 1993. The Canadian government agreed to cash, benefits and considerations in exchange for 80% of the land in Nunavut. If I were born in 1973 as opposed to 1974 I wouldn’t have been given a name at birth, I would have been given an “E number”. My dad wasn’t able to vote in Canada until 1968.

It’s not ancient history- it’s a present day reality. I don’t go around moaning about how oppressed “we” are but I don’t deny history either.

You sound like you have a lot of experience and I have no reason to doubt your abilities. Why not encourage young kids where you work to fly? I was lucky that my grandfather had a couple of thousand hours in the Second World War and he was able to help me get started with my flight training. Most kids up north don’t have that. Most kids look at the ATR or the Metro or the 99 at the airport as being something unattainable and intimidating.

A company saying to them that they have a future in aviation is not a bad thing.

[System Message]

The advertisement did not say preference would be given to local candidates, it said preference to first nation candidates.
I could move there and over time gain local knowledge which should give me an advantage over unknown applicants.
I can never be a band member.