Boeing 737 doesn't have synthetic vision

[CpnCrunch]

It astounds me that a new cessna 172 comes with synthetic vision, but Boeing "is not yet committed to having them certified and implemented". This technology has been certified and available for years in GA aircraft, and (in theory) should completely eliminate the possibility of CFIT. If I was operating any kind of airline I would want all my planes to have this technology, and if you are operating a commercial operation in an area with regular poor visibility it would seem to be almost negligent not to have it.

[iflyforpie]

But they do have GPWS.

[D5GRVTY]

EGPWS, while it doesn't have a 3D view of the terrain, it does have a top down view. I can't imagine a situation where someone would have a cfit accident in a modern airplane that would of been saved by a synthetic vision display. Money on that sort of system is better spent elsewhere IMHO.

Cheers

D5

[CID]

Synthetic vision is little more than a techno-gimmick that belongs in GA. For now anyway. I'd much rather rely on navigation aids radar and EGPWS than a database that regenerates the big picture outside.

EGPWS does indeed rely on a terrain database but it also uses real-time sensors.

[SuperchargedRS]

If all the large commercial ops had a Distributed Aperture System, there would be no such thing as IMC, night, separation issues, runway incursions, etc.

http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solut ... video.html

[jpilot77]

FLIR technology would also all but eliminate CFIT.

[Nark]

No it wont.

It will enhance situational awareness, bit it will never eliminate CFIT/accidents.

I've flown with synthetic vision in SE Alaska, and while great, you still have to follow Mother Nature's rules.

[CpnCrunch]

Looking at the accident data, it seems there have been quite a few CFIT accidents with modern airliners in recent years, but none had a graphical TAWS display. The problem is that only aircraft manufactured after March 2002 are required to have it (at least in the USA), so if you have an older plane it's up to the owner to decide whether or not to install it. And actually some of the TAWS units can display 3d terrain view:

http://www.uasc.com/products/taws.aspx

[fish4life]

If all the large commercial ops had a Distributed Aperture System, there would be no such thing as IMC, night, separation issues, runway incursions, etc.

http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solut ... video.html

That works well until your plane has ice on the sensors and they have all been destroyed by gravel kicking up. We have to face it flying in northern Canada if fairly unique (well the Russian's have figured it out but the air safetly record there isn't the greatest).

[FICU]

We have TAWS with map, TCAS, and 3D display on an MFD in our 737-200s. It is definitely a great situational aid but it is only effective if the crew uses it effectively.

[CpnCrunch]

Although I've never used it, synthetic vision just seems more useful than TAWS or other technologies because you have a large view of basically 'outside' in your primary display that shows terrain, runways, etc. The basic point is that you would need to be brain dead to ignore/miss it, whereas with the other technologies there is always the chance that the pilot could misinterpret or ignore it.

[Rockie]

Large commercial aircraft fleets are typically not equipped with the latest available stuff because of cost. Airlines rely on comprehensive SOP's and equipment currently mandated by regulators to maintain their remarkable safety record given the sheer number of aircraft hours flown. A couple of other pillars of that success though, maintenance and training, are under increasing pressure as operators seek to cut costs. Preserving and constantly improving those I think are much more important to safety than adding more gee whiz gadgets.

One thing the FAA is pushing very hard is convincing airlines to equip with WAAS in support of performance based navigation and future ANS plans. That will go very far in reducing CFIT accidents, but again the investment cost is so high only two carriers in the US have made the leap and neither of them are major airlines. No large operator in Canada has yet including Westjet who is miles ahead of anybody else in that regard. Air Canada of course is miles behind everybody else.

[FICU]

We have WAAS capability in most of our 737-200s and the -300s. Just waiting on the SOP so we can officially use it for LPV approaches.

[Rockie]

The real cost is in FMS's and multiple mode receivers that can incorporate WAAS as most of the current fleets are unable to.

What company is yours if I may ask?

[FICU]

Canadian North. Our UNS systems have WAAS built-in and the -300s have separate dual WAAS receivers.

[pointyertoes]

Porter's fleet has been WAAS equipped and we've been flying LVP approaches for several months now.

[Rockie]

Excellent, I did not know that.

[fish4life]

My friends at Calm Air have been talking about a couple planes slowly getting the WAAS in them as well

[Panama Jack]

Porter's fleet has been WAAS equipped and we've been flying LVP approaches for several months now.

LVP or LPV????

[SRV]

Just to clarify, there are two completely different technologies being discussed here.

1. Synthetic Vision is a 3d image on the primary flight display that receives information from TAWS.

2. Uncooled Enhanced Vision Systems (EVS) for Aircraft Landing Systems Using Short Wave Infrared (SWIR) Imagers displayed on a specific monitor.

EVS is not yet certified in Canada.

[True North]

One thing the FAA is pushing very hard is convincing airlines to equip with WAAS in support of performance based navigation and future ANS plans. That will go very far in reducing CFIT accidents, but again the investment cost is so high only two carriers in the US have made the leap and neither of them are major airlines. No large operator in Canada has yet including Westjet who is miles ahead of anybody else in that regard. Air Canada of course is miles behind everybody else.

WestJet doesn't need WAAS, they have RNP .1.

I guess we could get into a debate over the benefits of RNP vs WAAS but that should probably be a different thread.