Private vs commercial maintained aircraft
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Private vs commercial maintained aircraft
Other than the maintenance interval schedule by time not calendar date and adherence to overhaul time. Are there any other major differences between privately maintained aircraft vs commercially maintained aircraft?
I ask the question as I'm trying to understand the "value" if any, when commercial aircraft are for sale with respect to maintenance standards.
Thanks for our help.
I ask the question as I'm trying to understand the "value" if any, when commercial aircraft are for sale with respect to maintenance standards.
Thanks for our help.
- Colonel Sanders
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Re: Private vs commercial maintained aircraft
Commercially-maintainted ONLY has value if you
intend to operate them commercially. And sometimes
not even then.
For example, an operator might have an aircraft
with an engine past TBO, and under his program
he can continue to run it.
You get that aircraft, you're going to have to overhaul
the engine - you can't continue to run it past TBO
on your program because Transport won't accept
the previous operator's data for your history.
Generally, commercially-maintained means high time
and thrashed. I would far prefer a low-time private
aircraft, who's biggest problem is generally lack of use.
A friend of mine just bought a private 172 with 1700TT,
and it's a honey. Needed a little work, but nothing serious.
Compare that to a flight school 172 with 10,000TT or
20,000TT where everything is worn out, bent, dinged,
cracked and corroded.
intend to operate them commercially. And sometimes
not even then.
For example, an operator might have an aircraft
with an engine past TBO, and under his program
he can continue to run it.
You get that aircraft, you're going to have to overhaul
the engine - you can't continue to run it past TBO
on your program because Transport won't accept
the previous operator's data for your history.
Generally, commercially-maintained means high time
and thrashed. I would far prefer a low-time private
aircraft, who's biggest problem is generally lack of use.
A friend of mine just bought a private 172 with 1700TT,
and it's a honey. Needed a little work, but nothing serious.
Compare that to a flight school 172 with 10,000TT or
20,000TT where everything is worn out, bent, dinged,
cracked and corroded.
Re: Private vs commercial maintained aircraft
It depends on usage and storage - I've seen a commercial 172 with 12000 hours that was in good shape (ex-flight school, lots of damage history, but is was repaired properly) and a private one with under 1500 hours that sat out in a field for 20 years.
The 12000 hour plane needed a structural repair due to damage (which led to our company acquiring and repairing it) but the engine and the rest of the structure was in great shape.
The 1500 hour plane had some mouse nests (but no major corrosion from them), but the interior was a write-off because of water damage. The paint and windows were awful. The control cables were trash, the engine needed an overhaul because of internal corrosion, and some of the instruments and avionics were no longer working.
Even with the structural repair, the 12000 hour commercial 172 was by far the better deal.
It varies from plane to plane. If both are in the same condition, by all means take the private one with low hours, but don't just look at hours.
The 12000 hour plane needed a structural repair due to damage (which led to our company acquiring and repairing it) but the engine and the rest of the structure was in great shape.
The 1500 hour plane had some mouse nests (but no major corrosion from them), but the interior was a write-off because of water damage. The paint and windows were awful. The control cables were trash, the engine needed an overhaul because of internal corrosion, and some of the instruments and avionics were no longer working.
Even with the structural repair, the 12000 hour commercial 172 was by far the better deal.
It varies from plane to plane. If both are in the same condition, by all means take the private one with low hours, but don't just look at hours.
Re: Private vs commercial maintained aircraft
In terms of regulations, am I right in thinking that maintenance on a commercial aircraft must be performed by an AMO (with all the paperwork that entails) and that an individual AME cannot sign a release?Are there any other major differences between privately maintained aircraft vs commercially maintained aircraft?
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Private vs commercial maintained aircraft
You are correct about the AMO part but just because it's an AMO doesn't mean it's quality work, an AME still has to sign out maintenance on a privately owned a/c unless it's under the owner-maintenance category, which I would stay away from. Each a/c will be different no matter where or by whom it was maintained. The whole TBO thing is a bit of a sore point for me, I've always worked on the commercial side of things and thought that it's a really good idea to follow the TBO's, along with complying with the required SB's. The whole "on condition" confuses me, is it on condition until it blows apart or are the proper inspections being done to ensure continued airworthiness. I'm currently looking around for a small cessna and have decided to budget in an overhaul of the engine if it's already past the TBO or has been sitting long enough to warrant a tear down to inspect for corrosion. If you are going to drop some bucks for a "new to you" a/c, it's a good idea to have an experienced AME look over the a/c and the log books to determine what's been done and what's going to be needed once you purchase the a/c. Also, having a "fresh annual" doesn't mean jack to me on an older a/c, I plan on having one done immediately after purchase to make sure nothing was missed and maybe go a little deeper than the regular annual insp. Engine mounts, wing spars and flight controls are some of the things I'll be looking into.
Best of luck on your shopping
I
Best of luck on your shopping
I
Re: Private vs commercial maintained aircraft
In that case I guess there's some inspecting to be done and paid for if a private aircraft is to be entered into commercial service (and has been worked on by an AME). So that would put a price premium on the aircraft still in commercial use. Yes?
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Private vs commercial maintained aircraft
I agree it can be confusing, but "ON CONDITION" does NOT mean FLY UNTIL FAILURE . It means fly until performance starts to deteriorate. AN-B041 does a decent job of explaining HOW this should work if it's followed properly. Problem was / is too many AMO's and AME's never took the time to learn and understand it, they assumed it meant fly until it can't fly no more.Heliian wrote: The whole "on condition" confuses me, is it on condition until it blows apart or are the proper inspections being done to ensure continued airworthiness.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... 41-549.htm
Re: Private vs commercial maintained aircraft
Thanks for that info cyclenut.
Photofly. Whenever we've taken over an a/c, whether it was run privately or commercially before, we still do a bridging or acceptance inspection which compromises of a full inspection of all tech records and a 50/100/annual inspection regardless of the time since last completion, more important with leases too as it's a good time to document any damage. The private ones usually require a lot more work because of missed SB's and even missed AD's. Then you get into the corrosion control inspections and inspections of all installed STC's and kits. Imports and private a/c are usually lacking documentation for one time kit's so they have to be removed or if you've got the time and money, made into an LSTC. Also don't forget about all the necessary placards. Usually when a ship is going from one commercial operator to another, the a/c will already be set up for the operator but you might have to add/remove some avionics and such. And don't forget to do a new weight and balance too, since they've removed the requirement for reweigh every 5 years and not everyone is a math genius most w and b's are innacurate(either by a couple pounds/fractions of an inch up to 100lbs/6 inches). So I could see a slightly higher value in a commercial ship with similar age/hours. But again, it goes back to a case by case basis, I've seen some real shitbag commercial planes, but some real gems too. Before the tsunami, you could get some real nice machinery from japan, now you have to be a little more careful.
Cheers,
I
Photofly. Whenever we've taken over an a/c, whether it was run privately or commercially before, we still do a bridging or acceptance inspection which compromises of a full inspection of all tech records and a 50/100/annual inspection regardless of the time since last completion, more important with leases too as it's a good time to document any damage. The private ones usually require a lot more work because of missed SB's and even missed AD's. Then you get into the corrosion control inspections and inspections of all installed STC's and kits. Imports and private a/c are usually lacking documentation for one time kit's so they have to be removed or if you've got the time and money, made into an LSTC. Also don't forget about all the necessary placards. Usually when a ship is going from one commercial operator to another, the a/c will already be set up for the operator but you might have to add/remove some avionics and such. And don't forget to do a new weight and balance too, since they've removed the requirement for reweigh every 5 years and not everyone is a math genius most w and b's are innacurate(either by a couple pounds/fractions of an inch up to 100lbs/6 inches). So I could see a slightly higher value in a commercial ship with similar age/hours. But again, it goes back to a case by case basis, I've seen some real shitbag commercial planes, but some real gems too. Before the tsunami, you could get some real nice machinery from japan, now you have to be a little more careful.
Cheers,
I
Re: Private vs commercial maintained aircraft
As I see it a commercially maintained aircraft is certainly going to be fine, but at the same time it will be a much more tired aircraft. Not necessarily from being flown more, but from the interior, panels, parts etc being pulled out every 50 hours vs annually. That seemingly puts more wear and tear on the aircraft than the flying itself.