Hour Requirements vs credentials

[skylark172]

Hello everyone,

This is more for people have a hand in hiring and recruiting, but everyone is free to comment.

I just wanted to put a feeler out there. It seems that everyone I have either called or inquired about has basically slammed the door in my face and told me not to call back unless I have a 1000 hours of total time. Phone calls seem to annoy potential employers, instead of showing that I am interested in joining them...

So the fact that am perfectly bilingual, have a university degree, ATPLs written and bit of turbine experience on a PC12, (flying commercially) seems not to matter.

Supposedly, Air Canada and Jazz pilots say you can train a monkey to fly a jet, so what gives? What do I need to do to prove my worth to someone?

[daedalusx]

Hello everyone,

This is more for people have a hand in hiring and recruiting, but everyone is free to comment.

I just wanted to put a feeler out there. It seems that everyone I have either called or inquired about has basically slammed the door in my face and told me not to call back unless I have a 1000 hours of total time. Phone calls seem to annoy potential employers, instead of showing that I am interested in joining them...

So the fact that am perfectly bilingual, have a university degree, ATPLs written and bit of turbine experience on a PC12, (flying commercially) seems not to matter.

Supposedly, Air Canada and Jazz pilots say you can train a monkey to fly a jet, so what gives? What do I need to do to prove my worth to someone?

Well then welcome to the fabulous world of Canadian aviation. Learn to love the suck, it's a way of life.

[ahramin]

It's fairly simple really. All the employers you have contacted already have a pile of resumes from people who have skills and experience applicable to their needs. In addition, the have a massive pile of resumes from people who have all sorts of various other qualifications, dog catching certificates, etc, and don't have experience applicable to their needs.

If you have PC12 experience that would be useful to a PC12 operator, contentrate on them. But realize that they probably have a pile of pilots with PC12 experience looking for work.

[KK7]

It's the unfortunate reality of our industry... Hours mean everything and anything else means zip. That being said I was once in a similar position that you're in and my university degree got me in the company in a non-flying position, and I just kept bugging the flight department for work to help them out with to do in my free time. They got to know me and when it came time to hire they preferred to hire the known quantity from within rather than the unknown from outside. Fortunately it only took 2 months.

A monkey can fly a jet, but it takes a bit more brains to fly the smaller less advanced machines. It all comes in decision making and there is something to be said about experience teaching you a lot. There is always the person who is the exception, but from the standpoint of employers and recruiters, they stick to what they know. Most people with 1000 hours of flying time have come across a certain number of situations that have likely either proven their worth or taught them lessons. With a huge pile of resumes, employers need some sort of measuring stick, and around here it is hours. I met an employer who tried to get away from that route and hired based on merit and credentials instead, and he got a real mixed bag of pilots. A few years later he's reverted back to the old method again.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Hello everyone,

This is more for people have a hand in hiring and recruiting, but everyone is free to comment.

I just wanted to put a feeler out there. It seems that everyone I have either called or inquired about has basically slammed the door in my face and told me not to call back unless I have a 1000 hours of total time. Phone calls seem to annoy potential employers, instead of showing that I am interested in joining them...

So the fact that am perfectly bilingual, have a university degree, ATPLs written and bit of turbine experience on a PC12, (flying commercially) seems not to matter.

Supposedly, Air Canada and Jazz pilots say you can train a monkey to fly a jet, so what gives? What do I need to do to prove my worth to someone?

Umm are you whinging or do you honestly not know the answer to your question ?

[skylark172]

No, I am not 'whining' if that's what you mean. I am at the crossroads in my career, and do not feel there are any opportunities to be had, and will soon have to make a decision as to which direction I will take.

I would not have asked a question for which I already know the answer.

I really want to know if the 1000 hrs mark makes that big a difference. For example if I had 1000tt with some pc 12 time and 1900 time, even if it was all right seat.

[wirez]

Don't expect to find easy work, even with 1000hrs.

[AJV]

Don't expect to find easy work, even with 1000hrs.

Amen.

[trey kule]

Well, I will try and help.

First, when it comes to calling companies, you must understand you are not the only one to do this.
Yes it is only a few minutes,but it is an unplanned interruption, that may be at the wrong time. and it happens over and over. Even when companies ask not to be called, pilots will call,,"just to make sure they got the resume"....Cold calling is not a good thing. Undestand that and you demonstrate to an employer that you can think of someone else besides yourself. Also, most employers nowadays want some time to review all the resumes, compare them, and do a bit of checking before contacting the potential hire. You are not going to short circuit that process by phoning..You are just going to piss people off.

Bilingual. Degree. Yes they are important, and may be the clincher...Or maybe not.. In Quebec most companies view bilingual as a no hire....leave Quebec to the French speakers and go and work in English Canada. In the west it is seldom necessary to be bilingual so it is not a real asset. The majors like it, particularily Aire Canada . I assume that you are not applying to them with a few hundred hours.

If you have PC 12 time, that is you took proper training and got the time, rather than the fly the right seat with your buddy or when times are slow training, I would target PC 12 companies and concentrate on them.
Pilot Career Center has an excellent search engine for operators of a specific aircraft.
It is important to not claim experience you dont have. It is typically picked up pretty quickly, and casts your whole resume into doublt. If you have not had sim training or a formal ground school your previous company will verify, than claim the time as familiarization.. Shows you understand the importance of proper training.

Make a simple resume. dont try and subsitute a lack of experience with words like eager or hard working.
Seems that the odd experienced pilot is eager and hard working also. Let the potential employer know they are not part of a resume carpet bombing program. It makes a huge difference...trust me.

As to the 1000 hours...Studies have shown pilots have typically gotten through the better part of the learning curve at 1000 hours. It also generally allows for the all to common parker penning of logbooks. In the olden days , the odd bit of parker penning was ovelooked, but it has become so common nowadays, and so exaggerated,it is a concern. Same goes if you logbook times from point a to b show a typical ground speed on a PC12 of 60 kts. It only takes a few minutes to click on landings and punch in a few flights to see how exaggerated flying times are.

Lastly dont give up.. flight time is important. But things like honesty, punctuality, common sense, are just as important once the flight time requirements are satisfied.

Good luck on your job hunt.

[Northern Flyer]

If you have PC-12 time, than I assume you have been to a Flight Safety type course. This is your advantage. That course and sim training is worth big bucks, so I agree that you should be concentrating on PC-12 operators. Get some experience in the right seat, then venture out and try and get yourself some PIC time. You might have to fly a Chieftain or something, this is where you need 1000 hours for some companies. It's a minimum requirement for single pilot IFR.

Good Luck,

[cpta2020]

Its tough out there.
I'm ATPL 2000+ Hours w/multi turbine time.. struggling to find work.

Just keep positive.

[Lost Lake]

500 mpic is the biggest stumbling block. 5,000 hr, turbines, etc seem to mean nothing if it is mainly single pilot some multi time.

[seafeye]

Well i have 7000hrs. 5500 turbine, 3000 PIC turbine and i can't get a call either. I'm happy flying a regional jet but would like to stop the 5-7 legs days.
Even as you go up the ladder you still get pushed back a few steps.

[floatplanepilot]

Its all about hours son, and I have more going backwards then you have going forwards.

[skylark172]

Its all about hours son, and I have more going backwards then you have going forwards.

What makes you say that?

[Big Pistons Forever]

I really want to know if the 1000 hrs mark makes that big a difference. For example if I had 1000tt with some pc 12 time and 1900 time, even if it was all right seat.

Yes it does. Book smart only goes so far. Flying experience is mostly acquired by actually flying. I would much rather have a 1000 hr co pilot when things start getting hard then a 400 or 500hr one. Maybe it is only me but there seems to be a big difference in guy/gals who have passed the 1000 hr mark compared with those at say 500 hrs.

[rigpiggy]

probably because he has 20k+ hrs

[Lost Lake]

Its all about hours son, and I have more going backwards then you have going forwards.

Sounds like a typical airline pilot. Maybe take offs and landings are a better. 5,000 hr divided by 5 hr sectors=1,000 to and landings. 5,000 hr divided by .3 hr sectors= 15,000 to and landings. Anyone can build hours sipping coffee at 35,00 ft on autopilot.

[petey]

Its all about hours son, and I have more going backwards then you have going forwards.

Doesn't sound very efficient, d****e.

[Bobby868]

It seems that everyone I have either called or inquired about . . . told me not to call back unless I have a 1000 hours of total time.

What do I need to do to prove my worth to someone?

[Krashman]

No, I am not 'whining' if that's what you mean. I am at the crossroads in my career, and do not feel there are any opportunities to be had, and will soon have to make a decision as to which direction I will take.

Hate to beat you up a bit but this is the attitude that will make you just another statistic in the long list of guys that went through and spent all that money and time on training only to not get a job and move on to plan 'B'

The aviation industry goes through cycles, right now if you've got some time there are some jobs out there. Eventually that will filter down to the low time positions and thats when you need to working on the ramp or in the right place at the right time.

Keep at 'er.... don't give up eventually it will pay off and you'll be the one typing this message in a few years to a guy in the same situation.

[just curious]

Looking across that gap between starting and retiring, your cry likely touched all of us at one time or other.

To put your question in perspective, few employers in any business think beyond the immediate. Especially in aviation. So, when you are well established in the profession, your degree and language skills may serve you in good stead as a department head, training developer or base manager.
As a general rule though, someone in those positions is generally ineffective without industry experience.
Where I am flying currently, if my FO had a degree in the sciences, then they might have a stronger rapport with the client. But far more important to me is my current FO's experience with this aircraft, environment and operation. The cockpit gradient isn't as steep, and where learning transfer occurs it is more "here is a small thing that will help you as a captain" rather than that "A" is for airplane sort of thing for new FOs. As it happens, our company has a shallow end of the pool. Inexperienced FOs jumping into the deep end of what we do haven't fared very well.
Continue to hammer on doors of companies with aircraft you are familiar with like fer instance the PC12. Be thankful you have additional skills.

Lots of people who can only boast flying time have their lives come to a screeching halt when they lose a medical. At that point you have an advantage. Keep going.

[Brantford Beech Boy]

FWIW re. the 1000 hour requirement,

1000 hrs is a CARS requirement for SP/IFR with pax....
that is why some operators require that amount of time.

"723.86 Minimum Crew

Single Pilot IFR Requirements

The standard for the operation of an aeroplane with passengers on board in IFR flight without a second-in-command is:

(1) the pilot shall have a minimum of 1000 hours of flight time which shall include, if the type to be flown is multi-engined, 100 hours on multi-engined aeroplanes. In addition, the pilot shall have 50 hours of simulated or actual flight in IMC, and a total of 50 hours flight time on the aeroplane type;"

When I hired guys, obviously the PIC hires had to have this time, but I also looked to hire F/Os with or close to this amount in case I needed to upgrade them in a short span......

BBB