IDIOT's

Flying Newf · Post by **Flying Newf** » Fri May 13, 2005 7:53 am

I have recently siffited through some resumes, and I was totally disgusted with some of the applicants, who with their 300 hours, think they can buy a job. YOU ARE AN IDIOT!! Willing to come with a fresh PPC. Why are you in aviation? Do you think its a game, are you gonna live in your parents garage for life? By the time you have weaseled your way into a descent job, qualified pilots will be working for min wage, due to Morons like you? You may be wondering why we haven’t called you yet, after all you offered such a great deal to us. WE SHALL NEVER CALL YOU. In fact, I have passed your resume around to some friends and your name is now black-listed with some companies. Keep saying you will work for cheap and buy your own PPC...you’ll go far!

Sulako · Post by **Sulako** » Fri May 13, 2005 8:07 am

I can't help myself...the proper title is "Idiots". No need for the apostrophe. Sorry, I just got a giggle outta that

Yoyoma · Post by **Yoyoma** » Fri May 13, 2005 8:13 am

Sulako wrote:....Sorry, I just got a giggle outta that

You just made me blush

Dog · Post by **Dog** » Fri May 13, 2005 8:21 am

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Fri May 13, 2005 9:03 am

Flying Newf,

I'm assuming your in a management role (CP). Why not consider contacting those applicants and tell them exactly what you are telling us? They may not realize the implications of willing to work for free or paying for their own PPCs- until someone tells them why they think it's wrong, they will continue to do so.

frog · Post by **frog** » Fri May 13, 2005 9:04 am

English is not my first language but Idiot's could mean it is the idiot of somebody...am I right?

learcapt · Post by **learcapt** » Fri May 13, 2005 9:07 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

flying newf....i cannot believe your attitude at all. black-list people for just trying to get a break in an incredibly competetive market? i do not agree with pilots paying for training either, but to have such a harsh stand on guys trying to fulfill their dream is TOTALLY unprofessional!!! i would really be curious to find out what kind of operator you work for and your experience. i have a feeling i would not be too impressed. and to the other idoit, "take note CPs", get a life, you guys have completely crushed a few people here today. get rid of the bloody god complex MR. CHIEF PILOT..wow, do we bow to you guys as well. you dont like what some low times say in resumes, keep it to yourself!!

and Yoyoma, you hit the nail on the head as well, bunch of hipocrits!!!

now i feel alot better

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Fri May 13, 2005 9:16 am

It would mean something is in possession of the idiot. As in, the idiot's resume was appalling.
But to the topic at hand...I agree that they should be contacted, nice and mannerly, and informed of why this is not acceptable to you. Sure, those tactics may work with someone if kept up...but if they know why it's not cool they may change their view on the matter and realise it isn't all about just being competative.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Fri May 13, 2005 10:18 am

He's the Idiots idiot's idiot!

bizjet_mania · Post by **bizjet_mania** » Fri May 13, 2005 10:56 am

Hey Newf, its guys like you that make pilots buy their own PPCs. Noone wants to give the little guy a chance, you know there are guys with lots of time so in the span of 3 or 4 years that you can keep a lowtime guy, you're gonna lose out buying the PPCs for 3 high time guys that are going to leave you as soon as there is a better job. Low-time guys like in every industry, are harder working, more loyal and will stay alot longer with the company than a high time guy. I've seen ridiculous minimum requirements....

2000hrs for a Navajo Captain?!?!?
2500hrs for a PC-12 F/O???

Come on thats bullshit, 2500 hrs you can get a bizjet job.
I know someone 250hrs ended up on a Twin Otter.
Back in the 70's KLM had guys with 250 hours as flight engineers on 747s. Please!!!

We don't want to be flying C150s and C172s for a decade and then spend another decade on a ramp in some rathole up north. We didn't spend $40 or 50 grand to always be brushed to the side and told "well sorry you don't meet the minimum requirements".

I am very surprised by your comments that you even work in this industry, and I can't believe you even have any pilots that are willing to work for you. So don't be a jackass and treat everyone with respect, these guys are only looking for a break. Some companies like you to pay for your own PPC. And hey would you fly a 172 for 2000 hours and then try to build the extra 100 hours multi or go for the top and try your luck.

Wasn't Me · Post by **Wasn't Me** » Fri May 13, 2005 11:23 am

Sound like a troll to me. Most managers who have any idea would consider any benefit but to call everyone idiots well just look around.

bizjet_mania · Post by **bizjet_mania** » Fri May 13, 2005 11:29 am

and isn't he a newfie?? nuff said! Don't screw anyone mr.chief pilot cause if you get canned you never know if one of those pilots you blacklisted will be your captain.

Hawker · Post by **Hawker** » Fri May 13, 2005 11:40 am

Not that I agree with purchasing PPC's but Just a few examples of maybe why people are doing it. Assholes

Must have U.S. Commercial with multi and instrument and type rating on a Casa

1500 TT required. PPC's, experience on type and/or other PT6 aircraft an asset.

1000TT 500 multi pic
Previous navajo experience or PPC an asset
NO PHONE CALLS

Captain, June 1/05 to September 30/05 at the lodge. Possibilities exist for after lodge season, employment. Current single pilot PPC.

First Officer required for a Beech 1900D with a PPC on type. Position available immediately.

Navajo pilot with current PPC required

inthomerker · Post by **inthomerker** » Fri May 13, 2005 11:49 am

Bizjet
being a Newfoundlander has no association with being an asshole... great thread until you said that.

bizjet_mania · Post by **bizjet_mania** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:23 pm

Sorry newf was flipping out about why low time guys buying PPCs, and I wasn't referring to all New Foundlanders. If he sees the requirements he will understand why people do it. Thats the best minimum requirement.....1000TT, 500 Multi PIC.. LMAO meanwhile to get on as an F/O you require 1000 hours with 100TT. So that means you need 600 hours to get on as a captain on a twin to build up 500hrs Multi PIC.

So where exactly do you get 100 multi if the minimum requirements say minimal 100 hours multi?. Do they think we are going to pay for 100 hours of multi?

Until they realize just how ridiculous and unrealistic their minimum requirements are, pilots will continue paying for PPCs. I don't want to but if it means I can get ahead of the game you can bet I'd do it.

split s · Post by **split s** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:25 pm

First off, Hawker, I'm happy to see you post these adds--proves a point for sure.
Before I had a commercial license I as well as most people do, knew it was not cool buy a PPC on anything. So to stand up for people few who still want to do this is foolish, they know what they are doing by this point.

Flying newf,
I know of quite a few management types who think the exact same as you. I think our management(who i believe are awsome) has the same response to those who will work for nothing or pay for PPCs. They see it the same as the guy who walks in and wants a job but has no idea of the types of A/C we fly or what we do or where we fly to, Which shows them alot about the person. The 200hr guy who deserves the job knows alot about the company and shows their interest, not offering to by a PPC. It may also indicate they suck as a pilot and think it is their only way in, either case who needs'em.
S

bigcanuck · Post by **bigcanuck** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:32 pm

For those of you who don't like the high time requirments for certain positions realize that these requirments are often based on insurance requirments or the speed the company needs to upgrade their pilots due to expansion. I know its frustrating for people just starting out. Its also that frustration that makes them offer to pay for their PPC. I do agree that paying for a PPC hurts the industry and is one of the main reasons that we here in Canada are so underpaid, but its not the only reason. So, black listing the people who offer to pay for their PPC is wrong, if they're just starting in the industry. But if they've been around awhile Black list the SOBS. They should know better.

Switchfoot · Post by **Switchfoot** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:49 pm

It's not just the low-timers who are having trouble finding work. There are many qualified people out there who have loads of experience in the industry complimented with thousands of flight hours and a good attitude who can't find work. That's a bit confusing.

I'm by no-means a high-timer but surely six years in the business and a couple thousand hours should count for something!

Often times it's the same answer...."Oh sorry, you don't meet the insurance requirements or you don't have enough of such and such time....blah, blah, blah." I posted a similar subject entitled "Experience" in the Hot Employment/Interview section of AvCanada.

Trying to keep a positive attitude in this industry can be a real chore somedays. Although I'm certain it's the same no matter what you're doing. There are good and bad days regardless of what type of work you do. To all those with just a few hundred hours, keep looking....you'll find something; those who came before you have lived through that frustration too.

Nonetheless, even as an employed commercial pilot in Canada can be a tough, tough thing. Even if you're upgrading. Sometimes it makes no difference if you have experience or not. You'd think it would, but it would seem to me (and echoing the thoughts of others on the site), that experience always doesn't mean you're qualified for the job.

This is NOT a rant on the state of the industry, just one pilot's observation.

Good day!

Switch.

frog · Post by **frog** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:54 pm

I think that black listing somebody for this reason or another is totally out of proportion. I agree that if a person is doing something really serious, something dangerous, ok he she should be blacklisted.

But really who has the right to ruin somebody career? Who can say that he never did something stupid? Who never thought of buying whatever to go faster eventhough he thought it was stupid...I am sure that there is a lot of users of this forum who did some backstabbing, who lied to get a very appealing job...are all of you blacklisted? I am not saying it is a good idea to buy a PPC but don't kill a guy for that!

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:30 pm

Quote from bizjet _ mania:

" and isn't he a newfie?? nuff said! "

Well I'm a Newfie and I do not think pilots should buy PPC's or any other training that is required by the company that a pilot works for.

From reading your contributions here bizjet may I suggest you think before you hit the post button?

Cat

just another pilot · Post by **just another pilot** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:32 pm

Every village has one...

Silver Lining · Post by **Silver Lining** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:37 pm

If companies would stop hiring these guys, then people would not buy PPC's!!!

bizjet_mania · Post by **bizjet_mania** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:38 pm

Why is this so hard to understand. Say you have a son or daughter, you've invested thousands and thousands of dollars so that they can have a good career. After they are done the training, you would like to see some returns from your investment. But now your kid has to work 3 or 4 years on a ramp away from home and is not even "promised" they will get to fly. And for well under the poverty line might I add.

As for insurance requirements, thats is not always true. Ever notice when there is a pilot shortage, oh the requirements drop as low as they can go to get the high time guys sitting doing nothing. When there is a surplus of pilots, whop! Up go the requirements. I have seen job posting where the minimum was 650, the next summer it was 1000 or 1500. So I don't believe that insurance crap.

As for blacklisting pilots for trying to get what they paid for.... a job, I think these operators should be black listed.

scotothedoublet · Post by **scotothedoublet** » Fri May 13, 2005 4:22 pm

I agree with the Newf. Offering to buy a PPC on a resume = working for free = paying for your position. Should then only the indepedently rich be hired? I'm surprised by the amount of posts chastising the Newf.

bizjet_mania · Post by **bizjet_mania** » Fri May 13, 2005 4:25 pm

scotothedoublet wrote:I agree with the Newf. Offering to buy a PPC on a resume = working for free = paying for your position. Should then only the indepedently rich be hired? I'm surprised by the amount of posts chastising the Newf.

Working for free? Pilots already do that because these small operators pay slave wages. Can you imagine what it would be like if there was no labour laws in this country? They would have us working for a bowl of rice a day. Pay a descent wage. If you live in the middle of nowhere and need pilots, pay enough so your pilots don't have to live in a porta potty somewhere in the forest. $12,000 a year is disgusting! For the money invested in a career full of broken promises, its awful.