Air Canada pilots call in sick, fatigued, and blind.

[The Mole]

Good times at Aircanada. I made the blind part up for dramatic effect.....

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/201203 ... ns-120317/

[Eleveniron]

Just one more reason for Canadian travellers to hate Air Canada. Kudos!

[Diadem]

Pilots can't just call in sick. The travelling public won't put up with it. A lot of people are frustrated and fed up.

Actually, they can. In fact, they're legally obligated to do so. Karygiannis, and a lot of the travelling public, seems to think pilots are at their beck and call because they paid $99 for a ticket. It's absurd how many people expect pilots to bend over and take whatever management wants to give them so long as the passengers aren't inconvenienced.

[MrWings]

Yet I can buy a $99 WestJet ticket and the flight will be there for me. Why is that?

[Shadowfax]

Yet I can buy a $99 WestJet ticket and the flight will be there for me. Why is that?

And THAT is exactly what you should do! If ACA isn't dependable - take your money elsewhere!

[crazy horse]

[quote="Diadem".]

It's absurd how many people expect pilots to bend over and take whatever management wants to give them so long as the passengers aren't inconvenienced.

Customers should never be inconvenienced.

[AirMail]

"We've got to come to a solution," Karygiannis. "Pilots can't just call in sick. The travelling public won't put up with it. A lot of people are frustrated and fed up."

that's right don't call in sick when you are, go to work, the hell with regs, right! Is there proof they weren't sick? Is it a crime to?

The AC pilots are not trying to whore themselves or set a lower standard for the rest of us...so I'm loving the support you guys are showing for our fellow pilots, kudos to you!

[Jack Klumpus]

Is it one or two pilots or 1000 that called in sic?

Was the rate of sick calls any higher than other st. patty's days? weekend? march break?

Come on, don't fall into the media trap/propoganda.

[Colonel Sanders]

they paid $99 for a ticket

I regularly pay $1800 for return airline tickets to (any) US destination, departing from a Canadian city, so cut the $99 crap. Airline tickets in Canada are hideously expensive - so expensive that travellers cross the border to depart from a much cheaper US city.

don't call in sick when you are

UUUUuuuummmm ... do you really think these pilots are sick? This was a wildcat strike, and will simply drive more customers away.

the hell with regs, right!

That's exactly what these pilots did - an illegal strike. They don't care about the law.

What a totally dysfunctional company. Reminds me of a British auto maker, with all the parties so filled with hatred and anger for each other that the company is doomed to grind to a halt, sooner or later, in some fashion.

[confuzed]

they paid $99 for a ticket

I regularly pay $1800 for return airline tickets to (any) US destination, departing from a Canadian city, so cut the $99 crap. Airline tickets in Canada are hideously expensive - so expensive that travellers cross the border to depart from a much cheaper US city.

don't call in sick when you are

UUUUuuuummmm ... do you really think these pilots are sick? This was a wildcat strike, and will simply drive more customers away.

the hell with regs, right!

That's exactly what these pilots did - an illegal strike. They don't care about the law.

What a totally dysfunctional company. Reminds me of a British auto maker, with all the parties so filled with hatred and anger for each other that the company is doomed to grind to a halt, sooner or later, in some fashion.

And you know they weren't "REALLY" sick how?? You have some kind of sixth sense that can tell this?? I'll believe it because it was in the newspaper, they're NEVER wrong! Come on dude, really??

I give the Air Canada pilots my full support. It's about damn time the pilot group start standing up to management and the traveling public for that matter!! The traveling public seem to think it's their god given right to travel by air.....well, I hate to tell you this but it isn't. People bitch and moan about how expensive it is to fly, but believe it or not I have seen greyhound bus fares more expensive than airline fares....don't believe me, go look it up. For those tickets that are expensive, don't blame the bloody airlines and don't take it out on its employees who just want a FAIR wage in this age of increasing taxation and living costs. Why don't you write to your member of parliament and ask why the taxes are so bloody high and why airports are allowed to get away with retardedly high landing fees.

I for one am getting really tired of hearing people bitching about how these Air Canada pilots are inconveniencing them, oh poor me. Really? How would you feel in your given job/career/profession, if the government became involved and pretty much dictated what your working conditions will be and what a fair wage should be for you......you'd be pretty upset I'm sure. All the while, watching your incompetent senior management walk away with exorbitant salaries/bonuses and the shareholders getting massive payouts. This might push you to the point of being irate....especially if they won't even talk to you about recovering some of the concessions that you had to give up to keep the company alive almost a decade ago.

It would also be nice to put a gag order on the media, so they can't write about such useless drivel and basically spin the public opinion on their misdirection. Notice the media doesn't get involved in the even bigger threat to the travelling public.......foreign operators dumping their hulls and crews on our soils. If Canadian airlines can't compete with this growing issue, well that's another can of worms left for another thread.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm sure that I'm not the only one getting tired if this blatant disregard towards pilots by pretty much everyone....the travelling public, the government, managements, etc.

[mcrit]

The core issue here is that the pilots actually do have a valid point. The wages and benefits of the company's executives have improved greatly since the company came out of bankruptcy protection. The same can't be said of the rank and file.
The pilots (and other employees) just want a restoration of what they gave up to save the company. They were prepared to fight for it in a legal manner via job action, but that option was unjustly taken from them. There is no possible way Air Canada main line is an essential service. The back to work legislation is an unjust (possibly illegal) piece of legislation. I absolutely support anyone who would fight around it or outright ignore it.

[CanadianEh]

The core issue here is that the pilots actually do have a valid point. The wages and benefits of the company's executives have improved greatly since the company came out of bankruptcy protection. The same can't be said of the rank and file.
The pilots (and other employees) just want a restoration of what they gave up to save the company. They were prepared to fight for it in a legal manner via job action, but that option was unjustly taken from them. There is no possible way Air Canada main line is an essential service. The back to work legislation is an unjust (possibly illegal) piece of legislation. I absolutely support anyone who would fight around it or outright ignore it.

Well said.

[Minimums]

If they don't like their pay, leave. If they don't like management taking bonus, leave. If they don't think its fair they took a pay cut years ago and never got it back, leave. They are already highly paid professionals. Many make 3 figures a year, and don't do squat for work. Flight planning is done for them. Aircraft are fueled for them. Maintence is always done or properly MEL'd. Aircraft are cleaned inside and out while they sit up front sipping on their timmy's, complaining about life. They don't huck bags. They don't deice themselves. They don't have to wear a parka inside the cockpit unless its a fashion statement. Fancy systems do all the work for them (See autolanding autopilots, FMS, etc). They stay in the best hotels, with the best schedules, and the most time off in the industry, and still complain. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, LEAVE! Go find a job with another carrier. If you don't want another carrier, FIND ANOTHER LINE OF WORK THAT GIVES YOU THAT KIND OF PAY/SCHEDULE/BENEFITS FOR SUCH LITTLE WORK INPUT.

[GVER]

WOW Minimums, I am taking a guess here but from your post I take it you are not a Pilot. If you are maybe YOU should look for another line of work. Especially if you think the button pushers up front dont do anything. If you arent a pilot you probably just wish you were.

[JayVee]

Minimums, I suppose you think AC pilots should operate like they're driving KingAirs? They don't fuel, they don't clean the airplane, they don't huck bags, etc. Nice whining!
Maybe they should be paid minimum wage too.
Educate yourself.

Maybe when you grow up you'll be happy making $10.50 an hour for the work you do.
Stinking unions, protecting the lazy and the greedy.

[ng78]

So Minimums, if according to your logic, Air Canada pilots don't actually do any work, how do you justify upper management getting the pay increases they've had recently? They also don't clean their offices, or airplanes, or de-ice airplanes or . bags. By your logic, they don't do anything either.

The situation at Air Canada is a disgrace. I sympathise with the pilots and other workers there. The way this industry works, where starting pay is ridiculously low but top end pay is in some cases obscenely high, you can't just tell somebody who's put in 10 or 20 years into a company, finally making strong wages to simply leave. Leave and do what, make ridiculously low starting wages somewhere else in the hopes that in 10 years or more they will catch up again? It's an unrealistic expectation, especially for those with families to support.

Good luck AC pilots - you have a lot of support from those outside your organization.

[confuzed]

If they don't like their pay, leave. If they don't like management taking bonus, leave. If they don't think its fair they took a pay cut years ago and never got it back, leave. They are already highly paid professionals. Many make 3 figures a year, and don't do squat for work. Flight planning is done for them. Aircraft are fueled for them. Maintence is always done or properly MEL'd. Aircraft are cleaned inside and out while they sit up front sipping on their timmy's, complaining about life. They don't huck bags. They don't deice themselves. They don't have to wear a parka inside the cockpit unless its a fashion statement. Fancy systems do all the work for them (See autolanding autopilots, FMS, etc). They stay in the best hotels, with the best schedules, and the most time off in the industry, and still complain. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, LEAVE! Go find a job with another carrier. If you don't want another carrier, FIND ANOTHER LINE OF WORK THAT GIVES YOU THAT KIND OF PAY/SCHEDULE/BENEFITS FOR SUCH LITTLE WORK INPUT.

Surely, this is a troll.....really, it has to be. I mean, surely this person is not THAT retarded and clueless!

Every person I meet that don't fly are actually shocked when they hear how much pilots (especially the starting AC wage) actually make.

[cyeg66]

Attaboy Minimums. Your composition and typing skills have greatly improved. What a well thought out and balanced argument you just presented to us all. And here I was under the impression that orangutans couldn't contribute to this discussion! In all seriousness, get back on the turnip truck. It's too bad you had your toes stepped on by captain Big Balls 16 years ago (or something like that) but to extrapolate your hatred to include all their pilot group is beyond absurd. I'm saying this and I'm not even an AC supporter. There's always (at least) two sides to every story. You could start by pointing your finger at your Fed gov't that loves to have ALL its tentacles in the "anything-to-do-with-aviation" cookie jar.

[Liquid Charlie]

They are already highly paid professionals. Many make 3 figures a year

--- I hope they make more that $999/year --- lfaoooooooo



"Sick In" indeed -- news media hype - don't you think Air Canada would be all over that and ACPA could and would not allow or condone an illegal job action at this point in time. It would be interesting to know what could be deemed as a normal number of "book offs"

[dstechnical]

Pilots can't just call in sick. The travelling public won't put up with it. A lot of people are frustrated and fed up.

Actually, they can. In fact, they're legally obligated to do so. Karygiannis, and a lot of the travelling public, seems to think pilots are at their beck and call because they paid $99 for a ticket. It's absurd how many people expect pilots to bend over and take whatever management wants to give them so long as the passengers aren't inconvenienced.

do not forget travelling public pay for the bills. The $99 cattle are the reason most of the pilots are employed. Business class does not make up the majority of passengers today. Executives will always pay themselves more they are worth because they can. AC customer service (if any indication from last trip) absolutely non-existent from the top to the bottom. Let this dino wither on the vine

[Gino Under]

For me, I rarely miss the opportunity to take a shot at AC. But this time I see the issue spread across the entire piloting profession in Canada and the future implications it will have on our jobs. And it doesn't matter where you work or who you work for nor what tier.
It's time to stand as a group of professionals (if that's what we consider ourselves) and stop the madness.
This isn't about picking favorites or chosing whom is the better to fly with (as a passenger) its about the very occupation of flying aeroplanes.
Enough.
This is one of my rare moments to publicly admit that I wholeheartedly support ACPA and its position.
Lisa Raitt is out of line, uninformed, and doesn't understand the single-handed damage she is doing to the transportation industry in Canada and specifically the airline piloting profession.
That will be the day some fu*khead politician tells me when I'm not tired, fatigued, stressed OR just not up to flying on the day.
If any pilot action disrupts my travel I will undoubtedly be pissed but I will also understand the necessity if it comes to that. But, no more so than having a flight delayed or cancelled due to weather.

Good luck to all involved!

Gino Under

[confuzed]

do not forget travelling public pay for the bills. The $99 cattle are the reason most of the pilots are employed. Business class does not make up the majority of passengers today. Executives will always pay themselves more they are worth because they can. AC customer service (if any indication from last trip) absolutely non-existent from the top to the bottom. Let this dino wither on the vine

So what's your point? Without the flight crew, a traveller would just have to find another way to get to their destination. Yes, the customer is important but sometimes they get a little self serving to the point where you no longer want their business. It comes to the point where the demands are just plain overwhelming and well, don't fit the business model. The $99 cattle seem to think that they should have the right to fly just as much as anyone (the me too people). These "cattle" (your word, not mine) need to realize that their "rights" don't necessarily come at the expense of the hard working employees' ability to have a right to feed their families, pay for a home, pay the bills, etc...

In the world of today where the middle class is being decimated by skyrocketing costs of living, yet wages are going no where, something has to be done. Please don't ostracize a group of employees for wanting to be able to want a decent lifestyle, just so you can get your $99 ticket or $500 vacation. Flight travel is not a right, it is a luxury and used to be treated that way......unfortunately, the me too people think this is wrong.

If you are upset by the cost of flying, why not look at all the EXTRA fees/taxes that are on your fare and attack the source of them. They range from government taxes to absurd airport fees. "Cattle" need to realize that there are fixed costs to operating an aircraft and need to pay accordingly, hence turning it into a luxury......not their god given right.

[FlyGy]

Good times at Aircanada. I made the blind part up for dramatic effect.....

Oh, I thought it was because you didn't see the original thread on this topic in the Air Canada forum.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=80275

[Northern Flyer]

Forgive my ignorance, but has Air Canada been government subsidized at one time or another? Did the Canadian tax payers not bail the failing airline out in the not so distant past? Has the tax payers money been paid back in full? Maybe the feds have more invested than meets the eye.

I do not personally believe government should intervene in contract negotiations. If the Air Canada pilots want to have a stoppage in work so be it. There are other airlines that will step into their place. When their is a demand for air service it will be provided.

[Black Cat]

After going through negotiations at Jazz I can empithisze with the AC pilots regardless of whether or not this is an actually ploy by the union. The Jazz negotiations were a lot less hostile but even so I really had to consider booking off legitimately due to the " what if's offered extremely stressful. If I was dealing with lockouts, back to work legislation, and job security issues I could really see the stress level to be so high that it would be my duty to book off unfit for duty.

Our industry is trending towards the deprofessionalization our positions within an airline. Regardless of how you feel about AC as a company or the AC pilot group I feel it is important to support the benchmark that AC and Canadian Airlines pilots have fought for over the decades. We should be educating our family and friends to what is coming our way and WHY you may not be able to support your family as an airline pilot ten years from now. Google "pilots on food stamps"

Best of luck to the employees and thier families.