Jet Blue pilot goes nuts

[Check Pilot]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... 3IZQdWibBU

[Big Pistons Forever]

I am glad to see this situation was resolved without anyone being hurt. After seeing a fellow pilot self destruct and then kill himself, undoubtedly due to an undiagnosed mental illness, I feel for the poor Captain who will probably never fly again. This is no laughing matter, nobody is immune to a mental illness........

[flyinthebug]

What an absolutely terrifying experience for the passengers and crew. There was another thread awhile back about whether pilots on "prozac" or similiar types of medications should be allowed to act as a PIC or even as an F/O. Sadly, I think this answers that question. If he forgot his meds today, or for whatever reason just lost control...think of what could have happened!

I too feel very bad for this pilot as today was definately his last flight. I do however believe its best that he not ever be in control of a C172 let alone a A320 ever again. This man obviously needs some help, but his career should now be over in aviation.

Glad all turned out well for everyone involved!

[rapid602]

I was on a flight once where a passenger on the ground seemed fine and then at 8,000 feet became extremely drunk. The Captain went back to the passenger and calmed him down, buy I was getting nervous. I don't really know what the Captain said, but it was probably something like "if you get out of this seat again, I will come and beat you with the fire extinguisher"

Very scarey and surprised that we do not see more of it in an oxygen reduced environment.

So to all pilots out there, be cautious and fly safe. Keep an eye out for the passenger who looks like he had beer and corn flakes for breakfast.

[CFR]

There was another thread awhile back about whether pilots on "prozac" or similiar types of medications should be allowed to act as a PIC or even as an F/O. Sadly, I think this answers that question.

I'm curious as to how this answers that question? Do you have some inside knowledge as to what the medical condition was? Since there are a significant number of possible causes of the described events (illegal use of "recreational" drugs, the DT's, stroke, etc) I fail to see how any question re: use of SSRI's has been answered.

[flyinthebug]

There was another thread awhile back about whether pilots on "prozac" or similiar types of medications should be allowed to act as a PIC or even as an F/O. Sadly, I think this answers that question.

I'm curious as to how this answers that question? Do you have some inside knowledge as to what the medical condition was? Since there are a significant number of possible causes of the described events (illegal use of "recreational" drugs, the DT's, stroke, etc) I fail to see how any question re: use of SSRI's has been answered.

Ok Mr. CFR...I got slapped on the wrist for my "personal attack" on you in my post that vapourized...so ill just say this...

I was simply speculating in my post, and as you can see if you read my entire post, I said it could have been anything that set him off. No im not a doctor, but a Captain of an A320 lost his shit onboard his own ship...I dont think I need to be a doctor to call that one. My comment was rather tongue in cheek...that "someone forgot their meds" as one possible senario of dozens that it could be. As I said in my vaporized post, maybe he caught his wife in bed with his best friend or brother this morning...who knows, but whatever it was, he should NEVER fly a commercial airliner ever again.

Just my opinion.

[Rudy]

Does anyone know how the Air Canada F/O that had the breakdown is doing now?

[Mach1]

Perhaps... he wanted to be a florist and not a forest ranger.

[CFR]

There was another thread awhile back about whether pilots on "prozac" or similiar types of medications should be allowed to act as a PIC or even as an F/O. Sadly, I think this answers that question.

I'm curious as to how this answers that question? Do you have some inside knowledge as to what the medical condition was? Since there are a significant number of possible causes of the described events (illegal use of "recreational" drugs, the DT's, stroke, etc) I fail to see how any question re: use of SSRI's has been answered.

Ok Mr. CFR...I got slapped on the wrist for my "personal attack" on you in my post that vapourized...so ill just say this...

I was simply speculating in my post, and as you can see if you read my entire post, I said it could have been anything that set him off. No im not a doctor, but a Captain of an A320 lost his shit onboard his own ship...I dont think I need to be a doctor to call that one. My comment was rather tongue in cheek...that "someone forgot their meds" as one possible senario of dozens that it could be. As I said in my vaporized post, maybe he caught his wife in bed with his best friend or brother this morning...who knows, but whatever it was, he should NEVER fly a commercial airliner ever again.

Just my opinion.

Never saw your deleted post, so it's like it never happened (and as an aside, personal attacks are meaningless to me - my wife says I am insensitive), however the piece I quoted seemed pretty clear to me ... a blanket conclusion on fitness to fly based on some percieved "facts".

If you are interested in some actual facts have a look at the following site for more info about mental health.
http://www.ontario.cmha.ca/fact_sheets.asp?cID=2795
The fact sheets have some good info. Please note that it identifies that 1 in 5 Canadians (the numbers are for Ontario Canada as a whole is closer to 1 in 6) will suffer some form of mental illness in their lifetime, and that figure is for the mental illnesses described in the current DSM IV medical protocol. The next version is going to include something I believe they are calling situational depression or as one doctor who didn't agree with the change put it, "a new illness that can be cured with a lottery win or a new girlfriend!" This will bring the numbers closer to 1 in 3 or 4. Since the number of pilots self admitting to mental health issues is no where near even 1 in 6, guess who's out there flying around in secret because of folks who put forward conclusions similar to yours.

Also if you're interested the info on TC's position on addressing some mental health issues is located here.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/p ... u-2187.htm

As Big Pistons Forever put it " ... nobody is immune to a mental illness ..." . It behooves all of us to have a better understanding of the elephant in the room.

[rapid602]

I heard something on the news about this earlier. Being that is was on the news and you can not beleive everything you hear..... They said that the Co-Pilot locked the cockpit door and declared an emergency. GREAT .... then I heard that an off duty Capt. was given access to the cockpit and landed the flight.

I do not know what the condition of the First Officer was, but why would he not land the aircraft as I am sure he is qualified to do, and the off duty Capt. assist him in any way he could.

Would that not normally be how things would go, if there are some airline guys out there lets hear from you, I was more of a Charter Guy. I did work for a small commuter but this type of emergency wasn't invented yet.

[TG]

nobody is immune to a mental illness........

Or a stroke (cerebrovascular accident)

[KAG]

1 in 4 will suffer some form of mental disorder during their life. May we never know the true debths of maddness ones own mind can produce.

[mbav8r]

Rapid602,
These are all quoted from the originally posted article, the last one doesn't make any sense to me. It was mentioned twice in the artcle that the off duty Captain took over,"once on the ground", but either way, do you not think it is possible the FO said to the Captain he was a little shook up from the whole thing so why don't you do the landing? I'm sure there was some adrenaline flowing and when you come down from that, people tend to get the shakes.

John Cox, a former pilot who is now a safety expert, tells USA TODAY's Bart Jansen that the other pilot on the flight could have landed the plane safely, even without any assistance from the off-duty captain.

It was great that there was another captain that was on the flight that could assist the first officer. Had he not been there, though, the first officer is completely capable and trained to land the aircraft. There was never a risk to the passengers."

"Another captain, traveling off duty on Flight 191, entered the flight deck prior to landing at Amarillo, and took over the duties of the ill crewmember once on the ground," the company said in a statement. "The aircraft arrived Amarillo at 10:11 a.m., and the crewmember was removed from the aircraft and taken to a local medical facility. "

[Valkyrie_XB70]

Can you taxi an A320 from the FO seat? That could be why the off duty captain came forward to do it.

[CpnCrunch]

Ok Mr. CFR...I got slapped on the wrist for my "personal attack" on you in my post that vapourized...so ill just say this...

I was simply speculating in my post, and as you can see if you read my entire post, I said it could have been anything that set him off. No im not a doctor, but a Captain of an A320 lost his shit onboard his own ship...I dont think I need to be a doctor to call that one. My comment was rather tongue in cheek...that "someone forgot their meds" as one possible senario of dozens that it could be. As I said in my vaporized post, maybe he caught his wife in bed with his best friend or brother this morning...who knows, but whatever it was, he should NEVER fly a commercial airliner ever again.

Just my opinion.

Meds like prozac are for mild depression, and even if you forgot the meds nothing major would happen (in fact the meds don't really do very much anyway - they are mostly, if not entirely, placebo). You certainly would not go stark raving bonkers just because you forgot to take depression meds.

Schizophrenia is a whole different story - the meds have much more of an effect, and if you didn't take them you could go loopy like this. However you would never be permitted to pilot a plane while on any of these types of meds anyway (or with any kind of schizophrenia diagnosis).

[yycflyguy]

Can you taxi an A320 from the FO seat? That could be why the off duty captain came forward to do it.

Yes, there is a tiller on the FO side.

This is another example why there will ALWAYS be a minimum of 2 pilots in the flight deck.

[hawker driver]

Sully mentions on CNN that this was a good reason to raise the airline minimums in the US to 1500 hours and an ATP from the current commercial and 250 hours.

If the FO was a low time 300 hour plots as is the case in many US regional airlines, would he have had the experience to make that decision and land the aircraft himself?

[Nark]

Would that not normally be how things would go, if there are some airline guys out there lets hear from you, I was more of a Charter Guy. I did work for a small commuter but this type of emergency wasn't invented yet.

Chain of command at mine, and most airlines down here:
A deadheding/jumpseating company captain will assume PIC duties if the original PIC is incapacitated.
If an FO is on board, he will assist and the original FO will become PIC.

Mental illness aside, the FO did exact as he was supposed to, given the situation.

[Doc]

If the FO was a low time 300 hour plots as is the case in many US regional airlines, would he have had the experience to make that decision and land the aircraft himself?

I mean this in no way as an attack on hawker driver, but really? Did you actually hit the submit key after asking that question? The guy in the right seat HAS been trained in the aircraft. His captain has flipped. WTF other decision could he possibly make? Dumbest question of the month award, I fear must go to this one.

[The Hammer]

What an absolutely terrifying experience for the passengers and crew. There was another thread awhile back about whether pilots on "prozac" or similiar types of medications should be allowed to act as a PIC or even as an F/O. Sadly, I think this answers that question. If he forgot his meds today, or for whatever reason just lost control...think of what could have happened!

The # of pilots on Prozac is probably 1/10000000th less than the number on meds for other health ailments particularily high blood pressure and high cholesteral. What happens if they forget to take there meds? OMG!!!!

I put better odds of a pilot screwing up a landing and killing people because he forgot his glasses at the hotel and didn't have his spare set with him.

OR

A pilot crashing an aircraft caused by a medical issue he did not disclose during his medical. Oh wait that just happened in the last few years when that grumman avenger crashed in new brunswick.

[hawker driver]

If the FO was a low time 300 hour plots as is the case in many US regional airlines, would he have had the experience to make that decision and land the aircraft himself?

I mean this in no way as an attack on hawker driver, but really? Did you actually hit the submit key after asking that question? The guy in the right seat HAS been trained in the aircraft. His captain has flipped. WTF other decision could he possibly make? Dumbest question of the month award, I fear must go to this one.

No offense taken, this is after all a discussion board where everyone has an opinion and arguments are made for and against a position.

I based my question on the example of the the airline accident in I think was in Malaysia where the young co pilot was afraid to question the captain and watched him fly the aircraft right into the ground and kill everyone. Like you asked WTF other decision could he make? I ask the question Why didn't this co pilot do something when he knew he was going to die?
While this might be a cultural thing having to do with hierarchy and respect for superiors this can carry over to western society with guys so afraid for their jobs they don't want to say anything.

Another example why I phrased this question was after a discussion with an American eagle training Captain who one evening scared me with some of his new hire training stories. The one that stuck in my mInd was the new FO who was on a flight with him from ORD to LGA and mentioned that on that climb out was the first time she went through a real cloud. She was trained in Airzona and never had the opportunity until this first leg in an RJ.

Sure the co pilots are trained in the aircraft but depending how forceful and confident they are in their own abilities would probably play a major factor in their decision to over rule a senior captain.

I have noticed that it is the Captain who sets the tone of the trip and atmospher in the cockpit. If the captain is relaxed, friendly and open the co pilots will sence that and also be relaxed and feel at ease to mention something to the captain that concerns them. If the captain is a hard ass who is always bitching and yelling the co pilot might feel intimidated and keep quiet so as not to feel the wrath of the Captain.

Personality traits and experience I feel are a determining factor in the co pilots willingness to say and do something.

As for the dumbest question of the month comment. I will assume that you were away from school that day in Grade 2 when the teacher told everyone that " There are no dumb questions"

[TG]

I do have a really dumb question though...

Anybody knows if one of the two Jet Blue pilots was carrying a hand gun in his flying bag?

Might have helped the F/O

Or doomed the aircraft...

[flyinthebug]

I do have a really dumb question though...

Anybody knows if one of the two Jet Blue pilots was carrying a hand gun in his flying bag?

Might have helped the F/O

Or doomed the aircraft...

You raise a valid point here. Many of us have suggested post 9/11 that we (flightcrew) should be armed. I wonder what the outcome would have been in this instance had the Skipper been armed?? Scary thought! I guess thats why they only arm the Air Marshalls? WTF happens when one of them loses his marbles onboard??

[Inverted2]

I do have a really dumb question though...

Anybody knows if one of the two Jet Blue pilots was carrying a hand gun in his flying bag?

Might have helped the F/O

Or doomed the aircraft...

As long as he didn't have a bag of skittles in his hand.

[Donald]

I guess thats why they only arm the Air Marshalls? WTF happens when one of them loses his marbles onboard??

I guess you've never heard of the FFDO program in the States?

As long as he didn't have a bag of skittles in his hand.

Or was wearing a hoodie...