Does a good headset matter?

[bigEh]

Just a question here to get some feedback from all those who have come before me. I recently started my PPL and have been loving it. I am planning on going straight into my CPL and then hopefully join the other 200 hour heroes looking for that first job.
My question is regarding headsets. Up till now I have been using the headsets at my club (Victoria Flying Club). They seem fine and work well from what I can tell. But I had an instructor in ground school tell the class that it is definitely worth buying a better headset NOW if you are planning on flying for a career. Clearly, for example, a high end set like the BOSE noise cancelling headsets are amazing from what I have read, but are they worth $1000+ at this early stage? As most people, this is a huge investment and saving cash wherever I can is important. And my personal instructor has an old set that his father gave him and he said that they have been great.
Just looking for some thoughts, or pros and cons.
Thanks for the replies

[co-joe]

I don't know if it's a must have at this stage of the game but it sure is in the long term.

[BverLuver]

Get the very best ones you can afford. You can't get your hearing back once it's gone. Some flight schools charge $5/hr for headset rental. Over 200hrs, that $1000 Bose or Lightspeed is paid for.

BL

[SuperchargedRS]

I wore the flightschools no name POS loaners up untill about the end of my PPL stage (knowing I was going to get my CPL and do this for a living) then got a ANR set.

I've been flying full time since then with my ANR, recently I had to send my ANR out to get some repairs done, I switched back to my nice passive DCs (which I got a few years back as a personal pax loaner). All I can say is, I never reilized the ANR made that much of a difference until I was without it for a week.

[Jack In The Box]

It's certainly an investment! At your stage the VFC headsets will do fine. When you start flying a Metro (if you're unlucky) or king air (if you're a bit luckier) you may want something with noise cancelling.

I fly a Metro II and I use a Lightspeed zulu-it does the trick. When it was in the shop I used my DC with ear plugs which worked fine.

[CFR]

At some point a good noise cancelling headset is, in my opinion, a must. I have a lightspeed zulu and am very pleased with it, however any good quality NC headset is likely fine. Some features are not required but a definite plus. My Zulu has a Bluetooth link so I can listen to music on the long x-country flights (the system automatically mutes the music when a transmission is made or received) and it links with my iphone to make a receive phone calls (the clarity is amazing at both ends). Bluetooth is available as a standalone device for older headsets from a number of suppliers. I have been told that you can write off the cost of a headset if it is a job requirement. Not certain if PPL or CPL would qualify, however I believe working pilots can do so. You may wish to check with Revenue Canada to see if it applies during training.

[Tailwind W10]

I'll pile on, at the VERY LEAST get into an ANR set. I've got a mid range ANR Lightspeed set, which I'm very pleased with except for the plastic stirrup breaking one cold Edmonton winter. They replaced it but they were gone a couple of weeks. I bought them when I started training 2 years ago, and I'm already looking at a new upper end set. If you can figure out a way to get into that top tier of headsets you're pretty much set for life. Look at all the old timers, they're all wearing 20 or 30 year old Dave Clarks, you'll be the same down the road.

the ones to consider IMHO are LS Zulu, Senheiser S1, Beyerdynamic H800, DC X11 and you've already mentioned the Bose A20. My next set will be the Beyerdynamic, I believe they're my best value. I've ruled out the Senheiser only because of the arrogance of the guy I spoke with at their booth in Oshkosh last year. The LS gal was great as were the Beyer and Bose guys. There's probably others worth considering too. Do some research on Aircraft Spruces website. I think they carry just about everyone's gear.

http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/menus/av/headsets.html

Gerry

[Brown Bear]

Get the very best ones you can afford. You can't get your hearing back once it's gone. Some flight schools charge $5/hr for headset rental. Over 200hrs, that $1000 Bose or Lightspeed is paid for.

BL

Seriously? Flight schools RENT headset? By the hour? Rip off artists. You SHOULD have your own headset. And toothbrush.

[Go Juice]

Let me put it this way: It is as important to wear the best headset you can afford than to wear the best condom you can afford!!!!

[Shiny Side Up]

Seriously? Flight schools RENT headset? By the hour?

Any place I've seen that rents them rent them on a per flight basis. Still there would be nothing wrong with renting them per hour either.

Rip off artists.

Its a piece of equipment, if you don't like renting it buy your own. I suppose you berate the flight attendants too when they offer to sell you some headphones on a flight? If you're under the illusion that this is strange, get an itemized breakdown of the cost from any other service provider out there. At the dentist you get charged for every bit of gauze, every squirt of freezing. Your plumber charges extra if he has to get out his pipe threader, and definitely if he has to use his rotorooter. Last time I checked home depot doesn't have a "lending department". Even if a school lends out its headsets, you've paid for it somehow. Get used to it.

You SHOULD have your own headset. And toothbrush.

Yes, every pilot should have one, regardless of whether you're doing it professionally or recreationally. Protect your hearing, its irreplaceable. You can get good personal aviation hearing protection for around $300 with a set of basic DC's, the minimum you should have.

[ahramin]

Knowing what I know now, I would have bought a Telex Stratus 50D headset before my first flight in an airplane. However there is no way to tell what the future holds so I would suggest that if you are on any kind of budget you look for a used David Clarke passive headset. They are an excellent passive headset and from a durability standpoint are the best out there. Make sure you get a pair with an electret microphone and buy a new set of gel ear seals for them.

[Lost Lake]

One very strong suggestion when buying ANR's. Try them with the ANR off. While they may work with power, when the batteries die in a noisy aircraft, you can throw them out the window. I have the David Clark X11's. I would like to listen to music, but listening to the other flight crew, traffic and ATC is far more important!! They are more comfortable than the boses for me. (I had a headache after 1 hour). Also the DC's work in UN and regular jacks. I have had a few interesting situations with other headsets not adapting very well in different jacks.

For what its worth, it appears you intend to be in aviation for a long time. A good investment now will last you a long time if you take care of them!

[Doc]

Seriously? Flight schools RENT headset? By the hour?

Any place I've seen that rents them rent them on a per flight basis. Still there would be nothing wrong with renting them per hour either.

Rip off artists.

Its a piece of equipment, if you don't like renting it buy your own. I suppose you berate the flight attendants too when they offer to sell you some headphones on a flight? If you're under the illusion that this is strange, get an itemized breakdown of the cost from any other service provider out there. At the dentist you get charged for every bit of gauze, every squirt of freezing. Your plumber charges extra if he has to get out his pipe threader, and definitely if he has to use his rotorooter. Last time I checked home depot doesn't have a "lending department". Even if a school lends out its headsets, you've paid for it somehow. Get used to it.

You SHOULD have your own headset. And toothbrush.

Yes, every pilot should have one, regardless of whether you're doing it professionally or recreationally. Protect your hearing, its irreplaceable. You can get good personal aviation hearing protection for around $300 with a set of basic DC's, the minimum you should have.

Shiny Side Up, who pissed in your corn flakes? Taking it a little personally are you not? A headset is/should be PART OF THE ONBOARD EQUIPMENT on any airplane. Like the radios, GPS, etc. Headsets don't "cost to use" the way an aircraft does. They have no brakes to wear out. They don't depreciate with each hour of use. Renting them is simply a "money grab". It's something most FTU's have become. A money grab.
What's a modern training airplane cost? You can't afford to include the use of a couple of David Clarks? C'MON man!

[Captain X]

Good passive is the Avcomm 900. Just as good as the DC's with more features (PTT built in) without the David Clark sticker burn & just as sturdy
Good ANR via personal preference is the Zulu, I have used the Old DC ANR pre X model, Bose A20 and the old Bose.

[bigEh]

Thanks for all the info everyone. It's too bad there isn't a way to try them out first. Every headset fits every head different so it would be nice to have some sort of return ability.
I appreciate all the help. Ill have to keep a look out for any low time used pairs locally.
Anyone have a particular online retailer they prefer, or is it usually the same price everywhere? From what I can see, my club sells them almost the same price as the online store.

[Trematode]

They have no brakes to wear out. They don't depreciate with each hour of use. Renting them is simply a "money grab".

Disagree -- they are treated pretty carelessly and show signs of wear just like anything else. At the FTU I work at, we still occasionally run low on rental headsets depending on how busy it is, and how many passengers are riding along. You can get stuck with a junky pair pretty easily. The rental fees go towards the purchase of new headsets (half the time we forget to charge the fee anyway).

[jump154]

Thanks for all the info everyone. It's too bad there isn't a way to try them out first. Every headset fits every head different so it would be nice to have some sort of return ability.
I appreciate all the help. Ill have to keep a look out for any low time used pairs locally.
Anyone have a particular online retailer they prefer, or is it usually the same price everywhere? From what I can see, my club sells them almost the same price as the online store.

I've had good luck scouring EBay - as always you need to be patient, and prepared to bail on a bid if it gets too high, but all 4 of my headsets (2 basic Avcoms for px, a DC passive and a DC ANR) came this route at well less than 50% shop price, and all worked fine (1 was new in box). In fact, all my basic Pilot gear came from EBay, bought me at least 5 extra hours.....

[Adam Oke]

You're hard pressed to find a good rental headset because renters lack any "give-a-shit" factor. How many rental planes have you seen with black hose marks across the leading edge, nozzle dents and scratches around the fuel cap, a nice engraved line from where the cap rolls around on its chain, ladder dents in the strut and leading edge, dents in the tie down ring from pushing the tail down and smacking the ground to move the airplane, scratches all across the windscreen in a lovely circular pattern, headsets with snapped mics, droopy mic, torn headset pads, ear-seals constantly being torn off, coil cables screwed up beyond belief, cords pulled right out of the ear cups, square cord ends from being dragged on the ground, missing volume knobs.....I could go on about the "give-a-shit" factor. Therefor I don't see an issue with FTU's slapping a fee on for a headset. Charging by the hour is a stretch mind you.

That being said, buy your own! Reasons are not only for quality and money saving tactics, but hygiene as well. If you want to be a professional, you better have your own headset. If you're going to buy a used headset, and that is the route I would recommend going, be sure to strip it down and give it a good cleaning! You can not go wrong with a pair of bullet proof David Clarks. My headset is passive, and my helmet is ANR. I managed to trade a 6-pack of Heineken for my H10-13H's ... I just bought a rotor to fixed wing attachment on ebay for cheap. If I were purchasing a headset from the get go, I would buy a used set of DC 10-13X ANR/ENC headset. As someone said earlier, ideally you want a headset with ANR and good passive noise reduction. As nice as the Bose line us is, the passive is crap. Batteries die, ANR pukes, too much sweat and you're getting feedback ... you still want hearing protection when the electronics act up.

If you are buying new, most shops will be very comparable in price. There is very little profit margin on headsets.

[Tailwind W10]

Thanks for all the info everyone. It's too bad there isn't a way to try them out first. Every headset fits every head different so it would be nice to have some sort of return ability.
I appreciate all the help. Ill have to keep a look out for any low time used pairs locally.
Anyone have a particular online retailer they prefer, or is it usually the same price everywhere? From what I can see, my club sells them almost the same price as the online store.

There is a way to try them all, I saw many headset manufacturers in Oshkosh, they all had sample sets to try on, they speak with you over the headset and they also have noise generators to try out the noise reduction features. I would bet you'll see them at other bigger aviation events as well.

I've been happy enough with ACS in Brantford, when they don't have a product in stock they usually get it from one of their US warehouses within a week and then ship it to you. That said, if you've got a local supplier, you're far better to support them, as long as the price isn't too far out of line. (10% to 15% higher, buy it local)

Cheers
Gerry

[gopher_killer]

Clearly, for example, a high end set like the BOSE noise cancelling headsets are amazing from what I have read, but are they worth $1000+ at this early stage? As most people, this is a huge investment and saving cash wherever I can is important.

If you are going to be flying as a career, then the time to invest in a decent headset is now.

I had a student not that long ago that struggled to hear me everytime we went up. He resisted buying a good noise cancelling headset due to the cost. After a few months and me loaning him my headset for a flight, he relented and picked one up. The headset completely changed his experience in the plane and probably saved him 5-10 hours in the airplane for his PPL. Now, if dual flight training is roughly $200 per hour X 5-10 hours time saved = $1000-$2000 saved.

When buying a headset, just look right past the passive noise reduction ones. Buying one of them is a bit like buying a Blackberry. They were great when they came out but technology has moved on. I personally like the A20's, but some of the guys I fly with love the Zulus.

One last thought on this. You are becoming a professional and there are tools that you need to do your job. A good headset is one of them. If you were in medical school, would you be asking this question about buying a stethoscope?

[Shiny Side Up]

Shiny Side Up, who pissed in your corn flakes? Taking it a little personally are you not? A headset is/should be PART OF THE ONBOARD EQUIPMENT on any airplane. Like the radios, GPS, etc. Headsets don't "cost to use" the way an aircraft does. They have no brakes to wear out. They don't depreciate with each hour of use.

Then you won't mind donating a few pair you have to the cause? After all they'll come back in pristine condition and you'll have helped some poor soul save money on his flight training, because we wouldn't want it to cost anyone anything.

Renting them is simply a "money grab". It's something most FTU's have become. A money grab.

And people wonder why this sort of attitude irritates me. In truth I don't know of many places that do charge rental for the things, but if someone does and people pay it, then the headset rental is just market value for the convinience the customer is recieving. Someone around here keeps saying how pilots need some lessons in economics, I agree solidly with him. If you feel its a money grab, you don't have to buy it. Obviously there's enough people who will to warrant it. Just like there's enough people who will pay $3.00 for a pair of disposable earphones on an airline flight, to warrant taking on that extra bit of weight and making the poor attendants hawk them during it.

What's a modern training airplane cost? You can't afford to include the use of a couple of David Clarks? C'MON man!

No, no I can't. Actually I do, but that's because I'm soft. I don't know why I do, everything in me screams that I shouldn't. Its precisely that I know exactly how many pennies that training airplane costs to keep in the air and how many pennies we spend on keeping headsets available to Joe public that there is a training plane available to Joe public.

[oleo]

If I had $1000 extra to spend, I'd definitely go with the new Bose headset. Tried a friend's out, and it was awesome. However, if that's not in your budget....I have a set of DC H20-10s and it's a great headset. The inherent noise cancelling associated with the design of the headset is very good (not nearly as good as the bose active noise cancelling, but definitely good enough to protect your hearing)....Only downfalls are obviously that you don't get bluetooth/aux plugin etc....But for 1/3 the price, it's a good quality headset.

[CFR]

Thanks for all the info everyone. It's too bad there isn't a way to try them out first. Every headset fits every head different so it would be nice to have some sort of return ability.
I appreciate all the help. Ill have to keep a look out for any low time used pairs locally.
Anyone have a particular online retailer they prefer, or is it usually the same price everywhere? From what I can see, my club sells them almost the same price as the online store.

There is a way to try them all, I saw many headset manufacturers in Oshkosh, they all had sample sets to try on, they speak with you over the headset and they also have noise generators to try out the noise reduction features. I would bet you'll see them at other bigger aviation events as well.

Cheers
Gerry

DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, TRY THEM! ... unless you bring cash and are prepared to buy! After a 20 year hiatus I returned to flying using my trusty Softcom's (I had to replace the ear cushions after dragging them out of their 20 year storage - some things just don't last!). At the urging of my flight instructor with whom I was getting my night rating, I tried the Zulu's! It was a ~900.00 dollar mistake! I had thought my Softcom's were fine and then I pushed the button to turn on the Zulu's ...



Seriously I found a huge difference and don't regret the buy ... very much.

Whatever set you decide on, make sure you get and use a case to protect them (the Zulu's come with one, but I use a dedicated pouch in my flight bag)

The Softcom's are now my loaner set!

[cgzro]

A good quality headset can be a safety requirement in some A/C.
Often ATC comms are much improved and that can have significant implications on safety.
So quiet aircraft short hops no issues.
Long hops well comfort matters.
Noisy. Its a safety issue.
Cheap way in to ANR is the headsets inc kit. work great in cheap headset .

[YQLRookie]

Heads up, newb question here!
So obviously a headset would be a plus from flight training onto the regional airlines, but a what sort of point in your career do you stop carrying your headset to work? A large regional like Jazz? Or a major like Westjet? Then you switch to those small deals? Just curious.