AC Pilots Successfully Defend Air Ontario Pilots Lawsuit.

[The Raven]

And what positions would the Jazz guys be in now if they had taken BOTL....senior A320 captain maybe.

Without crunching the numbers too much, just based on my seniority, I would think had they taken BOTL they would be holding left seat 330 now. Maybe even left seat 777.

[The Raven]

Just had a quick look at the numbers. They could definitely be B777 Captains now.

[Bede]

Did the parties settle the costs issue out of court? Any idea how much costs AO will have to pay ACPA?

[The Raven]

Did the parties settle the costs issue out of court? Any idea how much costs AO will have to pay ACPA?

I'm not sure where any of that stands. I had heard a rumour that the Air Ontario pilots were planning on appealing the decision. Foolhardy in my opinion. They've gone through 5 or 6 law firms and have had numerous courts dismiss their case.

As an aside, a former friend of mine who flew for Air Ontario and was part of the plaintiff group phoned me up to try and sell me AMWAY products. I couldn't believe it. Here was a guy that was suing me for my share of $300,000,000. Had we lost, I would probably have had to sell my house. Then the guy wants me to buy AMWAY from him. Some people have no shame.

[Bede]

I'm not sure where any of that stands. I had heard a rumour that the Air Ontario pilots were planning on appealing the decision. Foolhardy in my opinion. They've gone through 5 or 6 law firms and have had numerous courts dismiss their case.

The window for that would have long expired (30 days). If you haven't received notice yet, there won't be an appeal.

[The Raven]

I'm not sure where any of that stands. I had heard a rumour that the Air Ontario pilots were planning on appealing the decision. Foolhardy in my opinion. They've gone through 5 or 6 law firms and have had numerous courts dismiss their case.

The window for that would have long expired (30 days). If you haven't received notice yet, there won't be an appeal.

Good to hear.

Regarding the costs, I haven't heard anything.

[Plim Sole]

There is going to be an appeal.

[The Raven]

There is going to be an appeal.

Plim Sole,

Are you one of the plaintiffs? If so, how much has this law suit cost you so far? I've heard various figures. Just wondering how accurate they are.

[Plim Sole]

I am not one of the Plaintiffs.
Was just speaking with one of them earlier in the week.

[The Raven]

I am not one of the Plaintiffs.
Was just speaking with one of them earlier in the week.

Ok.

It's been 7 months since Madam Pepall rendered her decision. If an appeal is in the works I haven't heard about it. But then again, I'm not one of the representatives.

[swervin]

Yes an appeal was filed on the advice of a retired Supreme Court justice. I believe it was around 4 months ago the appeal was filed. Each member of the plaintiff group has around $25,000 invested. And no I'm not a member of either group.

[43S/172E]

A question for swervin.

What is their individual liability if they lose?

[Ah_yeah]

Appeal eh ? I'm not a defendant nor a plaintiff but I'd think these guys would be more worried about 2 start-ups that are about to enter the market at a cost structure that is alarmingly lower than theirs. Connect the dots from there boys and girls...

[Bede]

A question for swervin.

What is their individual liability if they lose?

Costs for suits such as these are assessed on what is called the partial indemnity scale which is about 50% of the actual costs (called solicitor-client costs). When a party wastes another parties time costs are assessed on the substantial indemnity scale (more than partial indemnity costs, but less than solicitor-client costs). Depending on whether any part offered to settle, and for how much determines the costs. Assuming that ACPA spent as much on legal costs as AO guys did (~$3M) each AO guy would be on the hook for about $15k-$20k (my guess).
http://www.ontariocourts.ca/coa/en/arch ... tpaper.htm

It's time this thing got put to bed. It's the worst thing that has ever happened to the entire AC and Jazz groups.

[anonymity]

Well, I guess they could have just bent over and took it with the crowbar that was offered.
I'm not part of this but some still antagonize by saying things like," Without crunching the numbers too much, just based on my seniority, I would think had they taken BOTL they would be holding left seat 330 now. Maybe even left seat 777."
The above should be used to determine the amount of damages awarded.

[The Raven]

Well, I guess they could have just bent over and took it with the crowbar that was offered.
I'm not part of this but some still antagonize by saying things like," Without crunching the numbers too much, just based on my seniority, I would think had they taken BOTL they would be holding left seat 330 now. Maybe even left seat 777."
The above should be used to determine the amount of damages awarded.

I was just answering a question someone had asked.

Anyway, the Picher List would never have been implemented anyway. Hollis Harris was the Air Canada CEO at the time. He was not going to allow a merged list.

Here is an excerpt from Madam Pepall's decision.

"Mr. Harris, now retired, was the CEO of Air Canada at the relevant time and was a credible and forceful witness. He also had had considerable experience in the airline business and with mergers. He was unequivocal in his evidence that he had the authority to decide whether to accept the Award and that he would not. 'It would have been a financial disaster for Air Canada,' he said... While it may be that some Air Canada management representatives were prepared to discuss a merged list, this does not supplant Mr. Harris' firm conviction that a merged list was unacceptable. He was the decision maker. 'As he testified, 'We could not operate the mainline carrier with a seniority list that had all the Connector pilots on it.'... I reject the Plaintiffs' contention that Mr. Harris had lack of recall that impeded his ability to provide reliable evidence. He was an impressive witness who made no effort to reconstruct events.... his evidence was not impeached and indeed, Plaintiffs' counsel did not even try to impeach his testimony."

[Paragraphs 459, 460]

[43S/172E]

Bede thanks for the information and that on top of what they put in is a heck of a haircut!

It is time both groups settle this and start to protect their careers for the next generation that follows

[The Raven]

Bede thanks for the information and that on top of what they put in is a heck of a haircut!

It is time both groups settle this and start to protect their careers for the next generation that follows

Not to worry. It's settled.

[LuckyPilot]

Just an FYI, the ACR pilots hired to AC in 95, are just starting to get spots on the bottom of the 767 Capt's mainline list. I assure you none of them are any where close to being 330/777 Capt's, that's a few years away at best.

[ratherbee]

Actually, I think you will see on Monday that there are some former Jazz pilots holding or at least very close to the A330. It's because of the restricted bidding rights we now have thanks to the botched negotations of last year.