Side Slip, or Slipping

[Learning2Fly]

I learned a new technique today that I'm not quite sure about. A buddy of mine
who has his license gave me some tips on this 'move' to help slow down on approach.

If I'm recalling the name correctly (as per title), you apply slight rudder while keeping
the wings level, then adjust with minor bank to sort of 'crab' toward the runway until
you have achieved the desired speed..

It's a neat trick, and can surely avoid the need for additional manoeuvres if you
had to make an emergency landing.

Does this put the aircraft at risk, like un-coordinated turn territory? Is this a different
scenario altogether?

[iflyforpie]

1). This is a basic flight maneuver. You can't be a even a solo student pilot without knowing what it is, how to do when to do it, and considerations.

2). If you aren't at the point in your training where you have been taught this, you shouldn't be getting instruction from your buddy.

[Learning2Fly]

No formal training has started yet. I am a sim tech, and just practicing what I can as I learn.

Just wanted to.share and learn more about it.

[FlyGy]

Being able to perform a side slip or a slipping turn is a requirement to pass your flight test.

[the_cr]

Also, slipping in this scenario is not used to slow down an approach.

A side slip is most commonly used to keep the aircraft pointed straight down the runway in crosswind conditions.

A forward slip (heavier use of rudder and bank) is used to lose altitude in a hurry when cutting power or adding flaps just won't do it.

[Learning2Fly]

Nice, thanks for the info.

I will continue to practice this technique and some other basics like
steep turns, and controlled stalls/recovery.

[Colonel Sanders]

A wonderful way to get rid of excessive energy
is the slipping turn onto final, where more than
normal bank is used, and "top" rudder is used
to stop the aircraft from turning. This presents
the inside of the fuselage as a speed brake.

During a turn:

Slips are good.

Skids are bad.

Slips are when the ball falls to the inside of the turn,
as a result of excessive top (outside) rudder. I used
one a couple days ago in a Citabria turning on final, to
slow it down to 55 mph so I could land on a 1000 foot
grass strip.

Skids are when the balls shoots to the outside of
the turn, as a result of excessive bottom (inside)
rudder. This is very bad because the inside wing
might stall, and the lift from the outside wing will
roll you inverted, which is probably not what you
wanted.

[Learning2Fly]

A forward slip (heavier use of rudder and bank) is used to lose altitude in a hurry when cutting power or adding flaps just won't do it.

Yes, I recall that he was too high for the distance as.well. That was another.point he made, thanks for the.reminder.

[Learning2Fly]

A wonderful way to get rid of excessive energy
is the slipping turn onto final, where more than
normal bank is used, and "top" rudder is used
to stop the aircraft from turning. This presents
the inside of the fuselage as a speed brake.

Nice post. I am trying to.imagine the.orientation of the aircraft

such.that the.inside fuselage becomes an.`air brake`.

Do you mean the side of the fuselage that is opposite
the direction of angled flight?

[Lost Lake]

Power to idle, full flaps and props full forward works great for me! OK, sorry, not the same thing.

[the_cr]

A wonderful way to get rid of excessive energy
is the slipping turn onto final, where more than
normal bank is used, and "top" rudder is used
to stop the aircraft from turning. This presents
the inside of the fuselage as a speed brake.

Nice post. I am trying to.imagine the.orientation of the aircraft

such.that the.inside fuselage becomes an.`air brake`.

Do you mean the side of the fuselage that is opposite
the direction of angled flight?

If I understand what you're saying then yes . It would be the same side of the fuselage as the direction of turn. Left hand turn = Left hand side of the fuselage, whereas the nose would be pointed away from the turn.

[tiggermoth]

To perform the "forward slip" in order to lose altitude is simple. Push left rudder and crank in right aileron (or vice versa)to keep the airplane traveling in the same "flightpath" before. To an observer on the ground, it would appear as though you are still coming straight towards them, but the airplane flying sideways to get there rather than pointing right at them.

To do a slipping turn, use the same inputs, but use more aileron to bank a bit steeper, causing the airplane to turn while at the same time slipping sideays around the corner.

Here is a very helpful video, this pilot is doing a left turn, so in order to slip the airplane he uses a bootful of RIGHT rudder, and continues to use LEFT aileron in order to maintain a left bank and left turn.



You can tell right away when he transitions from a coordinated turn to a slipping turn, and you can also see how much of the side of the fuselage is "exposed" to the wind. Lots of drag there.

[Learning2Fly]

Very instructive video. I've seen this sort of thing before, but never knew the correct term for it.

Is the un-cooridninated portion of the turn happening between the 5-7 second mark of the video?
I don't know if it's the filming angle, but it appears the airplane is sliding (skidding) outward, and
then suddendly begins to slip tighter into the turn, then straight onto apporach/descent.

[tiggermoth]

Is the un-cooridninated portion of the turn happening between the 5-7 second mark of the video?
I don't know if it's the filming angle, but it appears the airplane is sliding (skidding) outward, and
then suddendly begins to slip tighter into the turn, then straight onto apporach/descent.

Yup, right about that 5-6 second mark is where he gives'er the boot full of RIGHT rudder to start the slip. The rest of that left turn is a slipping turn to final. Once he is established on final, he holds it in the slip, and by playing with the ailerons makes it go in a straight line instead of still turning.

That first 5 seconds when it appears he is "skidding" outwards, well, Cubs just look like that when they are flying They like to fly with their tails nice and high and look like they are happy to be flying I doubt if he is actually skidding.

[Colonel Sanders]

Slips (and slipping turns) are a great maneuver in a little
airplane, to get rid of some excess energy.

Lots of times I am on final with a student, and I observe
that we are on glidepath, but too fast. So, he erroneously
raises the nose, and converts the extra airspeed to altitude
and we are now too high, but at the correct airspeed. Sigh.

You need to have the right amount of energy on final. You
need to be on the correct glidepath at the correct airspeed.

If you have too much energy on final, the first thing to do is
pull the power all the way off. That might help, but that might
not entirely fix the problem. What to do?

Well, you could put some more flaps down - if you have them.
Problem is that you might not have any flaps. Or, they might
already be all the way down. Also, maximum flaps (eg 40 degrees
on older Cessnas) are so effective that they kill all your excess
energy, and then require you to drag the aircraft in with a lot
of power on short final, with all that drag hung out there. A
bit of a nasty trap.

Nice thing about the slip is that it's drag that you can instantly
put on, and take off again, once you are back on the correct
glidepath and correct airspeed - after you've killed your excess
energy.

Not a good idea in a big airplane, but you're foolish if you don't
do them in a small airplane - it's like having the right tool for
the job in your toolbox, but refusing to take it out and use it.

I love it when students observe that they are high on base, then
do a slipping turn onto final to kill some energy.

Landing the Pitts, if I am landing after a surface acro sequence,
often I am coming in really hot, so I will use a 90 degree sideslip
on short final to kill some airspeed, so I can make the turnoff.

Slips are all about rudder authority. If your aircraft type has plenty
of rudder authority (eg Maule M4 series) it's a sideslipping machine!

If your aircraft has very little rudder authority (eg Mooney) will, it's
not going to do much of a forward slip, because you can't stop it
from turning with top rudder when you bank it.

[Learning2Fly]

Thanks again Col. Sanders!

I literally just tried this on the sim, and had to post my results. I had a heck of a time getting it right; it's tough to keep the aircraft (**sim) straight on approach while flying angled in a slip (this was attempted in CAVU/no wind scenario)!

It's also tough to stay centred on the glideslope as my altitude fluctuated a bit more than usual. Speed didn't seem to be a problem though; the engines act well as a brake on the Q400 it seems, and power comes on quick if acceleration is required.

I'm not allowed to post video unfortauntely, but photos are allowed so I'll upload them tonight when I'm home. This technique is going to require a good deal of practice on my part!

P.S. Tigger, I sense some mild hate for the Cub?

** Anytime I type, or indicate that I'm flying a Dash8/Q400 aircraft I'm referring to the sim.

[Colonel Sanders]

Note that slips are perfect in little airplanes with
fixed pitch props, which don't provide much drag.

This is very different from constant speed props
(esp 3 and 4-blade with wide chord) which can
provide enormous drag under the right circumstances
(eg engine failure after takeoff in twin)

PS You try to use the props in the C421 to make
drag, I will break your fingers.

I sense some mild hate for the Cub?

Goodness. You simply can't hate something as mild
and docile and sweet and gentle as a Piper Cub.

Hating a Cub is like hating my dog. Who could?

[Learning2Fly]

Puppy dog eyes...how can you ever say, "no" to them? Very cute; my wife wants a pup now.

I managed to make a little intro video, and took some pictures of the Beech 1900D 'pit. The two photo here are showing
the instruments just before, and just after applying rudder, and aileron (as I'm sure most of you can interpret!):




According to the HSI, the nose is pointing about 20 degrees off axis, the inclinometer is pegged, and I'm just about to apply aileron
(after I put the camera down!). As I'm going into the slip, there is quite a bit of pressure on the rudder opposing me. I'm not flying
in a direct path as I descend, but I'm coming in from the side...angled until I'm just about in front of the runway center-line.

Once I hit that point, I let off the rudder slowly, go wings-level, and prepare for a touch down.

I guess my biggest concern about technique is: should I be descending in a 'straight line' toward the runway (as the nose is angled)?

Here's a video of me chatting it up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPJzbiQW ... e=youtu.be

[tiggermoth]

P.S. Tigger, I sense some mild hate for the Cub?

Goodness. You simply can't hate something as mild
and docile and sweet and gentle as a Piper Cub.

Hating a Cub is like hating my dog. Who could?

Nope, don't worry, I don't hate the Cub, I actually do kinda like'em. Never flown one though, would like to give one a go. I do however prefer the Taylorcraft. Always liked the look of them better than the Cub for some reason. Actually, the only time I do have a slight dislike for the Cub, is in the R/C airplane world. The Cub is probably one of the most "modeled" of all full size airplanes, and to be honest, it gets a bit tiring to got out to an R/C fun fly, and there is almost sure to be 10 Cubs, 5 P-51's, and enough Extra 300 models to fill a dump truck. C'mon people, think outside the box!! Build a Pitts or Spitfire or something!!! Anyhow.......in the real airplane world, I do like Cubs

Colonel, your dog is awsome. Showed my kids his picture, they think he is cute

[rooster]

1). This is a basic flight maneuver. You can't be a even a solo student pilot without knowing what it is, how to do when to do it, and considerations.

2). If you aren't at the point in your training where you have been taught this, you shouldn't be getting instruction from your buddy.

Firstly, he never stated what experience he has or whether he's even stepped inside an airplane! So why assume he's behind the proverbial 8 ball? He asked a question on an appropriate forum. Either help, or move on to the next thread!!

Being able to perform a side slip or a slipping turn is a requirement to pass your flight test.

What does this comment have to do with anything? I didn't know the question was "What bearing does being able to perform a slip on a flight test?"

Give your heads a shake people. He's just asking for some honest help. Either help the guy out or beat it!!

To the OP, if you have an instructor, I'd go over the technique with him. Also please take what you read here with a grain of salt. Better yet, talk to the pilots that you meet in the sim. Good luck!

[Learning2Fly]

Thanks for the support Rooster. I'm not taking offense to any of these responses whatsoever.

Even if they were trying to be mean on purpose, it didn't come across that way. I had no clue "slip" was a basic flight technique,
and required for passing the test, so it's all good.

I'm sure researching this on YouTube, or Google would save forum bandwidth, but I wouldn't get the detail I'm receiving from
the professional members here, and that's why I choose to hang out here rather than Google.

My position affords me some opportunities to meet with the clients, and talk airplanes quite a bit. I'm lucky enough to exchange
info with pilots from around the world, and keep in touch (with some). There isn't a day that passes that I haven't learned something
new, or improved my skills in the sim.

We 'fly' them off daily, and there are seven at our facility...so things are getting better each day. With all the practice I'm able to
touch down quite softly, and roll-out straight. If I could post a video of my first few attempts compared to today, you'd have a good
laugh.

Actually, I was quite nervous to use motion at first because it would slam down if you approach too fast, or didn't flare properly.
It took a couple of weeks without motion to get the basics in the ballpark before I had the confidence to fly with motion. Now I'm
getting brave enough to load fog, and low cloud ceilings. It's pretty cool to use the ILS, and come out of the clouds/fog and see
the runway lights just in front of you!

[FlyGy]

Being able to perform a side slip or a slipping turn is a requirement to pass your flight test.

What does this comment have to do with anything? I didn't know the question was "What bearing does being able to perform a slip on a flight test

Are you always this much of an ass, or just on an anonymous board? Just 'cause you seem to be a bit slow I'll explain it to you.

It's a neat trick, and can surely avoid the need for additional manoeuvres if you had to make an emergency landing.

It's not just a "neat trick" it's a required skill that each and every one of us had to be evaluated on as part of our flight test.

Does this put the aircraft at risk, like un-coordinated turn territory? Is this a different scenario altogether?

It does not put the aircraft at risk when done properly, it's a required skill to learn and master that is evaluated in the flight test.

The fact that Learning2Fly did not take any offense to my post, yet you seem all bent out of shape makes it quite obvious that he, at least, is smart enough to understand that this neat new move he had just learned is actually quite important.

Edit:
Learning2Fly posted as I was typing...'nuf said.

[rooster]

Being able to perform a side slip or a slipping turn is a requirement to pass your flight test.

What does this comment have to do with anything? I didn't know the question was "What bearing does being able to perform a slip on a flight test

Are you always this much of an ass, or just on an anonymous board? Just 'cause you seem to be a bit slow I'll explain it to you.

It's a neat trick, and can surely avoid the need for additional manoeuvres if you had to make an emergency landing.

It's not just a "neat trick" it's a required skill that each and every one of us had to be evaluated on as part of our flight test.

The guy is a sim tech. The statement made that it's a requirement to pass a flight test has NOTHING to do with his question.

And I'm the slow one...

Yes I'm an ass on an anonymous board to those who are daft...deal with it.

[FlyGy]

After reading your posts here I figured I'd read up on the other tripe you've posted on this forum. It's a good thing you don't make many comments because none of the ones you've made so far have contributed anything helpful nor intelligent.

Apologies for the derailed thread Learning2Fly, I had a momentary lapse and succumbed to Rooster's trolling. I've come to realise that he is nothing but an irrelevant little man attempting to elevate himself by belittling others.

Back on topic.

When you begin your flight training in earnest (rooster missed that part) you will have ample opportunity to practice this skill many times. It's a valuable tool in the tool box and a good one to practice, whether it be a side slip or a forward slip.

[2550]

Imagine if everyone on avcanada acted the same way at the bar as they do here....