(Avro) Arrow as modern day alternative to F35??

[flyalmaguin]

Interesting concept....

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/poli ... 35s-report

What an incredible way this would be to bring high tech jobs to the country.

I don't intend to suggest anything political with this, or stir up the F35 purchase debate, just dreaming of what could have been (and still could be)

[Colonel Sanders]

Stop hogging the pipe, ok?

[flyalmaguin]

That's why I said "dreaming"...

Would be cool though!

[old_man]

Seeing as all the originals as well as the plans were all destroyed it wouldn't be so much as a 'modern version' as it would be a 'from scratch'.

[Doc]

Save the money we waste on fighter jets, and spend it on a really world class Coast Guard.. Why are we buying fighters when the Rhode Island National Guard could kick the crap out of us?
But, we could have the most modern Coast Guard in the world. I thin, that's where we should be spending the money. That and feeding hungry children, supplying drinkable water to the reserves, becoming energy self sufficient, making higher education affordable to Canadian students........the list goes on.

[grimey]

So we should recreate all of the designs, machining, jigs, forms, etc, to get a 50 year old single-role aircraft?

The Arrow was fantastic for when it was designed, when the main threat and expected role was intercepting soviet aircraft over the pole that may have had actual strike orders, not so much for the roles expected of the CF in 2020+. Super Hornets would be a better idea than bringing the Arrow back.

[Beefitarian]

According to Robert's rules I'd like to second the Arrow 2.0 project. Let's discuss and put it to vote.

That and feeding hungry children, supplying drinkable water to the reserves, becoming energy self sufficient, making higher education affordable to Canadian students........the list goes on.

Shut up. We need to buy the Chinese F-35 replacement from Walmart to provide maximum profit to our reptilian overlords!

But in June, the government rejected the plan, saying the funds and time required to execute it were too much.

Meanwhile, the plans for the F-35s remain on hold.

Last spring the auditor general tore a strip off the government, accusing the Department of National Defence of hiding $10 billion in continuing costs for the fighter and the Public Works department of not doing enough homework to justify the purchase.

What would it cost to build an Arrow replica?

[grimey]

I vote we bring back the Mosquito. It'd support our timber industry at the same time.

[Beefitarian]

Com'on man! We can't run it on avgas. They're phasing it out. Next?

[Moose47]

"CF-105 Avro Arrow"

Bloody moron journos, its Avro CF-105 Arrow.

Doc, are you serious? A Coast Guard? - Perhaps it would suit you left-leaning types if we just sat around the campfire singing kumbia and when we go to sleep all covered in pixie dust, dream about the really really bad people going far far away never to be seen again. When we woke up we'd find ourselves in Nirvana!

Incidentally, the Rhode Island Air National Guard flies the C-130J.

Cheers...Chris

[moocow]

Nice idea to boost the aerospace industry but I don't know if this is the way to do it. I had a giggle when Global TV compared how Arrow would fly further and faster than the F35. What about dog fighting or stealth capabilities? I'm pretty sure if the Ruskies bombers are heading over the North Pole in the future, they will throw in a few PAK-FA along as escort. Unless they plan on using the updated Arrow as a stop gap Gen 4 while doing a clean sheet Gen 5 design at home. At this point, the logical thing to do is just buy the F35. People tend to forget that we already sank money into the R&D of that damn thing.

Then again, we are all just arm chair generals here.

[Tom H]

I can't resist this thread so it's out from lurking....

Seeing as all the originals as well as the plans were all destroyed it wouldn't be so much as a 'modern version' as it would be a 'from scratch'.

Randy Whitcombe, writer of AVRO Aircraft and the Cold War was a pretty good acquaintance, from him I learned the government of the day were just not that efficient. Over the years literally "Tons" (as it 2000# at a shot) documents have been recovered for the USA's office of the GAO. In addition large scale discoveries have been made in England.

The Iroquois engines (Mk 1 and 2) exist as do the outer wings, nose section with cockpit and most of the landing gear system from what I have been told and read, that includes the test data from the 4-5 Mk I airframes that actually flew and the flight reports.

In today's world of CAD/CAM and CNC machining and forming that means you are pretty darn close to having a proven airframe at your disposal and the engine.

Radars, Weapons systems, Flight control systems for fly by wire as well as navigation FADEC and other systems are off the shelf and you would want to upgrade them all anyway rather than recreate the analog.

So we are not talking about starting from scratch, prototyping of the airframe and engine is complete.

But does it suit today's mission....does anyone know what the mission is?

If it is sovereignty patrol, long range interception and interdiction or even fast response to Northern and offshore emergency response an Arrow Mk 3 might fit the ticket.

If the primary goal is to be NATO mud moving, it's not an option.

Sure would be interesting to see a 21st Century Arrow though

Seeing as we have paid for most the R&D already....how many years ago?

[grimey]

Com'on man! We can't run it on avgas. They're phasing it out. Next?

oh come on, they're doing turbine conversions on everything now, how hard could it be?

[2R]

The best alternative to the F35 would be some upgraded F22's.
If they cannot get some F22's perhaps they could get some of the planes that can see the F22,Some Typhoons

[grimey]

The best alternative to the F35 would be some upgraded F22's.
If they cannot get some F22's perhaps they could get some of the planes that can see the F22,Some Typhoons

Has the US dropped the export ban on the F-22 yet?

[Beefitarian]

Com'on man! We can't run it on avgas. They're phasing it out. Next?

oh come on, they're doing turbine conversions on everything now, how hard could it be?

Ok let's build some Vampires like grimey wants and some Arrows.

[grimey]

Only if we can station the vampires in Europe, and have one recreate The Shepherd every Christmas Eve. As stupid as this thread is getting, it's staying way more on topic than one on Fark related to this article.

[moocow]

Has the US dropped the export ban on the F-22 yet?

I don't think it was ever lifted. Otherwise, we would hear about Japan ordering some instead of getting the F35 and developing another stealth fighter on their own.

[2.5milefinal]

The F22 is not a good option. Lets build our own problem(s)
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-5 ... en-solved/

[Scuba_Steve]

Here's an idea, let's go all retro, Arrows for the air force to intercept bombers over the pole. Sky raiders for the army to machine gun and rocket the Taliban! We'll pick up some Jolly greens for cheap and make sure we bolt on some kick ass speakers and play 'paint it black' on a continuous loop while zipping around at tree top level!

It's the triple threat! No one will know what to expect!

Cheers

[Old Dog Flying]

[Caracrane]

Saab used to built fighter jets, so why not Bombardier

[Old Dog Flying]

Bombardier/Canadair DID build fighters..CF-104, CF-5, F-86 Sabre, along with jet trainersl T-33 and Tutor.

Barney

[imarai]

With the exception of the Tutor, all were license-built airframes. Yes, some improvements were made to the license-built products, especially regarding powerplants. But where and what is the clear and present external threat to Canada? Mostly the same as it is to the rest of western-like democracies, (and even pseudo-democracies). It is from radical Islam. Specifically, radical Muslim males fueled with religious fervor.

How a fighter jet will protect us from radical Islam is subject to conjecture, but every nation, especially a nation the size of Canada, does need to protect (and more importantly, show) its sovereignty. Is the F-35 right for Canada? Probably not. Was Prime Minister Diefenbaker correct in echoing the statement that "the day of the manned fighter jet is past" ? Not then, but perhaps now more than ever, given the rise of UAV/RPVs. Yup, we need a Navy, Coast Guard, an Army and an Air Force, but lets get down to specific needs. And fill the needs fast, with a made-in-Canada solution. Gonna happen? Not likely.

[Rowdy]

That money should be spent re-equipping our SAR and coast guard. Give them some added bases.. some new machines and a better budget. I 100% support those crews and the dedication they have to saving lives and patrolling out skies and coasts.

As for the jets? just replace the aging '18s with some newer superhornets.. it'll cut down on transition training and keep some fleet similarity.. Ohhh... and what to do about the snowbirds? Easy.. Harvard II's.. the hawks are ugly