Culture Shock

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog

User avatar
slowstream
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:15 am
Location: Canada

Culture Shock

Post by slowstream »

Having just started a new position in Asia this year; I have much to learn and could relate to this article.

I also thought it was worth sharing for those of you considering expat jobs overseas.

Slowstream


http://www.aviationcv.com/en/read-news/ ... ugust_2012_

Culture Shock - tips for current & prospective expats in the rising aviation markets

2012 09 28

In the realm of aviation, the cultural dynamic continues to pose a host of implications for expatriate pilots both on and off the ground. Managing the inevitable culture shock faced by many pilots working in the rising aviation markets of the Gulf States and East Asia is an important factor for both expat pilots and prospective job-seekers themselves. Indeed, the downsides of cultural disorientation extend well beyond a simple faux pas at one end of the scale to encompass alarming legal ramifications on the other. But what factors should pilots consider prior to accepting an expatriate position?

Typically, an expatriate pilot position poses a rewarding opportunity on account of comparatively higher salaries and a range of other fringe benefits including exclusive housing allowances, medical insurance, increased time off, taxation advantages, foreign bases and other enticements that are not accorded to local pilots. For instance, Cathay Pacific Airways offers its expat pilots a housing allowance that accounts for around 40% of total income, while local pilots are not granted the same benefit. Such circumstances can (and have already) fostered contention within an organisation.

‘Conducive to the high rates of airline industry growth predicted for Asia and the Middle East over the next three years is an ever-increasing dependence on an expatriate pilot base. The Middle East market, although small in size, has shown exceedingly high rates of growth led by Emirates Airlines and more recently by Qatar Airways and Etihad. Further to this, it is predicted that in the next 20 years Middle East airlines will seek to recruit around 32,700 trained pilots sourced largely from abroad to satisfy the growth in demand. For some time now, the Gulf States have witnessed an influx of various nationalities engendered through a vast expat base not solely in the aviation sector,’ commented the CEO of AviationCV.com, Skaiste Knyzaite.

While the multicultural environment of the Arabian Gulf may lend to certain liberties and a more worldly sense of understanding, it is vital for expats to note that certain customs are expected to be observed throughout the region. Specifically, there is a more conservative approach to dress and behaviour which foreigners are obliged to follow as well as mandates covering the consumption of alcohol, cohabitation of unmarried persons, the practice of adultery and homosexual activity – factors which may be routinely ordinary or otherwise permissible in the expat’s home country. In one particular case, two Emirates cabin crew were sentenced to 3 months in a UAE prison after they were found to have been sending lewd SMS messages. The court upheld the charge of their “coercion to commit sin through extramarital relations” – which is considered a felony in the country.

Culture shock is not exclusive to airline pilots in the Gulf States however, as several airlines of East Asia continue to seek foreign pilots to add to their already sizable expat base, measuring some 400 pilots for Korean Air and over 1,800 working for mainland Chinese carriers alone. Relocated pilots have reported to have experienced cultural disorientation in the form of alien organisational cultures, differing standards of hygiene, indirect manners of communication, disillusionment with food, traffic safety and of course, the ubiquitous language barrier. There are also more fundamental issues involving the cultural interplay of disputes with management over conditions of false information or misunderstandings regarding work conditions, contracts, licenses, housing, or other matters which are of pivotal importance to expat pilots.

S. Knyzaite, CEO of AviationCV.com, suggests that ideally, expat pilots should become versed in the customs and standards of behaviour prior to relocation in order to alleviate the likelihood of confrontation. Culture shock remains a very real prospect however and one particular study at the University of Calgary documented several methods of dealing with this dilemma. Central to the report is the understanding that culture shock is an intrinsic response – a multi-stage process of initial bewilderment, followed by hostility, self-imposed disaffection and a gradual shift towards adjustment – the recovery stage. In essence, dealing with culture shock involves mitigating the debilitating effects of severe cases that result in a breakdown or withdrawal during the early stages of the process. Specifically, acknowledging that the process is natural and time-limited, by taking efforts to learn the host country’s language, to interact with expats who share/d similar circumstances, to interact with the local community whenever possible, to ‘deconstruct’ instances of cultural frustration into the mere nuts & bolts of the situation, as well as to monitor warning signs of negative behaviour, including infinite regress, excessive drinking or feelings of animosity.

‘Although the prospect of an aviation career overseas strikes many benefits in face of the few challenges it presents, there are ways to circumvent needless hassles for the fresh-eyed aviator seeking to work abroad. Indeed, the activities of many flight crew leasing agencies like AviationCV.com are well equipped to advise pilots prior to a relocation abroad of possible cultural issues and concerns that affect their working careers and family lives in the host country. In addition, their expertise goes further to assist airlines through objective pre-screening of candidates according to cultural adaptability and other concerns,’ asserts S. Knyzaite.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
1000 HP
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:00 am
Location: South-East Asia

Re: Culture Shock

Post by 1000 HP »

Although I'm not flying down here, I have experienced culture shock in a mild form. I am in a Muslim country, so I get up at 4:40 am at first call to prayer. I go to bed earlier as a result. The days are all the same lenth, but the cockroaches are waaaay longer. The food all contains various chilli's which don't agree with my wimpy North American gut. So my last carry-on had 20 cans of "canned chilli" (very different chilli) and enough instant oatmeal to last a month. The people are nice but very thin skinned so you have to watch what you say. Everything we take for granted back home is hard to find here. I needed a 15/16 deep socket and the major city did not have one...

You get used to it. :rolleyes:
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Expat
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2383
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:58 am
Location: Central Asia

Re: Culture Shock

Post by Expat »

1000 HP wrote:Although I'm not flying down here, I have experienced culture shock in a mild form. I am in a Muslim country, so I get up at 4:40 am at first call to prayer. I go to bed earlier as a result. The days are all the same lenth, but the cockroaches are waaaay longer. The food all contains various chilli's which don't agree with my wimpy North American gut. So my last carry-on had 20 cans of "canned chilli" (very different chilli) and enough instant oatmeal to last a month. The people are nice but very thin skinned so you have to watch what you say. Everything we take for granted back home is hard to find here. I needed a 15/16 deep socket and the major city did not have one...

You get used to it. :rolleyes:
After 8 years here, I can say that in a while, you won't hear these prayer calls. You will even get used to the food. The lack of your preferred food is also a blessing, as it makes it easy to lose those extra kilos around the waist.
The article is dead on for the culture shock.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Gravol
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: Culture Shock

Post by Gravol »

Expat wrote:
1000 HP wrote:Although I'm not flying down here, I have experienced culture shock in a mild form. I am in a Muslim country, so I get up at 4:40 am at first call to prayer. I go to bed earlier as a result. The days are all the same lenth, but the cockroaches are waaaay longer. The food all contains various chilli's which don't agree with my wimpy North American gut. So my last carry-on had 20 cans of "canned chilli" (very different chilli) and enough instant oatmeal to last a month. The people are nice but very thin skinned so you have to watch what you say. Everything we take for granted back home is hard to find here. I needed a 15/16 deep socket and the major city did not have one...

You get used to it. :rolleyes:
After 8 years here, I can say that in a while, you won't hear these prayer calls. You will even get used to the food. The lack of your preferred food is also a blessing, as it makes it easy to lose those extra kilos around the waist.
The article is dead on for the culture shock.
Why someone would want to experience such a lifestyle is beyond me. I would prefer to not be tried and imprisoned for years because I decided to have sex before marriage. But hey, knock yourselves out.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Inverted2
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3927
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:46 am

Re: Culture Shock

Post by Inverted2 »

I wouldn't work over in one of those god-awful places for $500k a year. I'll take my decent paying job where I live where I want as I please.

I get enough culture shock when I'm at YYZ :P
---------- ADS -----------
 
TeePeeCreeper
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: in the bush

Re: Culture Shock

Post by TeePeeCreeper »

Dearest Gravol & Inverted2,

Unless you've worked and lived in the GCC you haven't the slightest clue as to what life is like in the Middle East... It's easy to judge when one has not lived/worked there...

Ignorance breeds intolerance I suppose...

Regards,
TPC

(Misses the call to prayer... What time is it again? :wink: )
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
1000 HP
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:00 am
Location: South-East Asia

Re: Culture Shock

Post by 1000 HP »

3rd, 4th, or 5th? I just go to church for weddings and funerals. These folks go to church all day long. That's dedication. I'm going to bite the bullet tonight and eat in the mess hall. I ran out of Stagg Chilli..... :rolleyes:
---------- ADS -----------
 
longjon
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 723
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:35 pm

Re: Culture Shock

Post by longjon »

Some people don't take a job more than 20 miles from the place they were born. Do you ever wonder why the Americans are so disliked a lot of places. They don't know the world outside their State let alone the continental USA. If you want to be like that so be it but don't say I'd not work there and you're crazy to do so etc etc if you don't have the experience.
Personall I quite like the expat lifestyle, work 5 to 6 month and earn the same or more as 12 mo. back home.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
slowstream
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:15 am
Location: Canada

Re: Culture Shock

Post by slowstream »

I've was never interested in the Middle East my self but I have several friends who work and live there; they seem to like well enough. For me I never wanted to subject my wife and daughters to the mentality of the region.

The middle east aside I've been very impressed with many aspects here in Asia, the quality of training, the professional attitudes of the crews and companies. I've also been very fortunate to have meet some really nice people who are every bit as friendly as Canadians if not more in some cases. But thats just my opinion and observation. It still continues to be an adjustment to daily living here though, some things I like, some things I don't and other aspects I continue become accustomed to.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
CLguy
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1602
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:54 pm
Location: Reality!

Re: Culture Shock

Post by CLguy »

While the multicultural environment of the Arabian Gulf may lend to certain liberties and a more worldly sense of understanding, it is vital for expats to note that certain customs are expected to be observed throughout the region. Specifically, there is a more conservative approach to dress and behaviour which foreigners are obliged to follow as well as mandates covering the consumption of alcohol, cohabitation of unmarried persons, the practice of adultery and homosexual activity – factors which may be routinely ordinary or otherwise permissible in the expat’s home country. In one particular case, two Emirates cabin crew were sentenced to 3 months in a UAE prison after they were found to have been sending lewd SMS messages. The court upheld the charge of their “coercion to commit sin through extramarital relations” – which is considered a felony in the country.

But come to Canada and hell just carry on as if you never left home. Bring all your customs, cultures and laws with you and we will welcome you with open arms. To bad the people of this country wouldn't grow a backbone!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rudy
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1171
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:00 am
Location: N. Ont

Re: Culture Shock

Post by Rudy »

Inverted2 wrote:I wouldn't work over in one of those god-awful places for $500k a year. I'll take my decent paying job where I live where I want as I please.

I get enough culture shock when I'm at YYZ :P

I get a lot more culture shock coming back to Canada than I do in overseas. This country becomes increasingly Third World very quickly the farther north you get from the border.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
complexintentions
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2186
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:49 pm
Location: of my pants is unknown.

Re: Culture Shock

Post by complexintentions »

I've lived and worked in the Middle East for 6+ years, and the comments by those who've never been there always make me laugh. An expat life has to be lived to be understood, and even then it's different for everyone. By now there is no culture shock, if anything when I come back to Canada on leave, it's a shock how much more everything costs. For me the benefits have been real and tangible, there's just no way I could have waited 20+ years for a widebody command in Canada, there's no way I could have stashed as much dough without moving to a tax-free environment, and every year working here is three I don't have to back home. I do enjoy the 160 nationalities that work within the company and the many other perks that sweeten the deal. Do I miss Canada? Sure, some family, the weather and natural things, absolutely. But I'm hardly at a desk job here, I get to places I would never have seen and back to Western civilization several times a month (i.e. Europe, Australia, US, Canada). And that's good, because the Middle East does suck, the mentality is pretty medieval and it's a bit like living with a bunch of children in a filthy never-never land. Will I move back? Absolutely. But in a much better position than I could ever have been had I stayed. And with a little luck, it looks like the Canadian housing market is about to collapse so there should be a new home to come home to, paid with cash. Living abroad has its sacrifices, some of them very large, but sacrifices usually bring rewards.

Comments like "I wouldn't work in one of those godawful places" just make one sound like either an ignorant hick, or someone who couldn't get an interview. Neither flattering. There are places I wouldn't work either, but they're a lot worse than here. And even then I respect that some people would LIKE those jobs.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Beefitarian
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6610
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:53 am
Location: A couple of meters away from others.

Post by Beefitarian »

Hi, I'm here to read the amusing responses I expect to complex's excellent post. "No you are!" etc.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Gravol
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: Culture Shock

Post by Gravol »

complexintentions wrote:
Comments like "I wouldn't work in one of those godawful places" just make one sound like either an ignorant hick, or someone who couldn't get an interview. Neither flattering. There are places I wouldn't work either, but they're a lot worse than here. And even then I respect that some people would LIKE those jobs.
Have any Gay friends? Are they also welcome at your phenomenal airline? Or is the lack thereof tolerance in the middle east just a spoofed up story for us red necks?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Chuck Ellsworth
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3074
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 am
Location: Always moving

Re: Culture Shock

Post by Chuck Ellsworth »

Have any Gay friends? Are they also welcome at your phenomenal airline? Or is the lack thereof tolerance in the middle east just a spoofed up story for us red necks?

Now there is a moronic post. :oops:
---------- ADS -----------
 
Gravol
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: Culture Shock

Post by Gravol »

. . wrote:
Have any Gay friends? Are they also welcome at your phenomenal airline? Or is the lack thereof tolerance in the middle east just a spoofed up story for us red necks?

Now there is a moronic post. :oops:
After reading this site for years I know that you're prone to confrontation. If you have nothing to contribute, why not just sit back, shut up, and remain pompous? Surely you learned how to do that in your infinite years.

"Complex" made some pretty interesting points. Surely one could have worked in the sand box and not liked it? There are quite a few out there!
---------- ADS -----------
 
bmc
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4014
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 10:06 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Culture Shock

Post by bmc »

Hey Gravol. You sound familiar. Have you or your family appeared on Jerry Springer?

Just asking.
---------- ADS -----------
 
North Shore
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 5622
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Straight outta Dundarave...

Re: Culture Shock

Post by North Shore »

Image
---------- ADS -----------
 
Gravol
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: Culture Shock

Post by Gravol »

bmc wrote:Hey Gravol. You sound familiar. Have you or your family appeared on Jerry Springer?

Just asking.
Keep powdering Chucks ass, i'm sure he enjoys it
---------- ADS -----------
 
Chuck Ellsworth
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3074
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 am
Location: Always moving

Re: Culture Shock

Post by Chuck Ellsworth »

Let me try again Gravol.

This is an aviation discussion forum and I am at a loss to connect gay sex with this subject.

But for sure you have the right to your own life style and as long as you find willing partners have at it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Expat
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2383
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:58 am
Location: Central Asia

Re: Culture Shock

Post by Expat »

Let me agree 100% with complex on his post. The other expats you meet overseas are generally friendlier than your co-workers in Canada, may be for the reason that they have a lot in common with you. They are in the same boat, expats, without the family, etc...
I have developped stronger bonds with fellow expats here, than I have in Canada. Out here, your religion, your color, your language, are all common traits, uniting you with others.
This situation has to be lived to be understood. You also spend a lot less in the sand box, than at home.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Eric Janson
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1424
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:44 am

Re: Culture Shock

Post by Eric Janson »

@Slowstream

The article you've posted is nothing but an advert for a recruiting agency.

The contract world is a snake pit full of some of the nastiest people you will ever meet. Recruiting Agencies only care about the money they get from you - that's as far as their concern extends.

Tip:- Deal directly with the Airline.

Regarding the Expat world.

I've said it before - make the choices that are right for you.

Being an Expat isn't for everyone. Some people simply cannot adapt to another culture or a different way of doing things. I've seen it over and over again. People that cannot adapt are usually gone within the first year or hang on and are extremely unhappy.

There are huge differences in the various Expat jobs on offer. Different locations/cultures/religions. Again this can make a huge difference in whether you can adapt or not. Again see the bold text above.

The first mistake people make is not doing proper research. It is critical to understand what you are getting yourself into.

Even with all the research reality can still be very different. The adjustment process can take up to a year.

All of us have had our "what am I doing here?" days.

Going the Expat route is normally a one way street. "Once an Expat - always an Expat" is a phrase I've heard a lot.

Once you have your jet Command it makes no sense to go back to Canada and start at the bottom. Financially it is huge hit.

I'm just finishing 3 weeks of holidays in Canada. I've been undergoing reverse culture shock. After 20 years of living overseas I no longer fit in here. Things that people think are important mean absolutely nothing to me.

I will be very happy to be back in the Tropics - already looking forward to 30C and laying on the beach next week. It may not be perfect but to me it's become home.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
seniorpumpkin
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:54 pm

Re: Culture Shock

Post by seniorpumpkin »

If you have nothing to contribute, why not just sit back, shut up
What is it that you are contributing gravol?
Oh ya ignorance, I forgot we Canadians are prone to such insights when we are afraid of the outside world.
Flying airplanes outside of Canada was the best choice I ever made, money, career advancement, and enlightenment. Definitely not for everyone, but if you're open to adventure, it's a good choice.
I have developped stronger bonds with fellow expats here, than I have in Canada
That unfortunately can go both ways, I've seen expats start to hate each other- in some cases spending too much time together can be tough to handle.
If you do choose this path, don't sit in your room and watch tv all day- keep an open mind, experience the culture(s) you get to see, eat the food, breath the air, take stock of your life, and you will come home fulfilled, content and RICH.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Cat Driver
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 18921
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm

Re: Culture Shock

Post by Cat Driver »

It's a slow day for me so I decided not to let this crap from Gravol just slip away.

After reading this site for years I know that you're prone to confrontation. If you have nothing to contribute, why not just sit back, shut up, and remain pompous? Surely you learned how to do that in your infinite years.
You bet I don't suffer cowards sniping from the protection of their computer key boards so I often respond to their crap.

So here is my position on culture shock.

Having flown and lived in around sixty different countries I understand the differences in many cultures, and never ever had any problems with the culture of any country I worked and lived in.

If you want a real culture shock try living in Saudi Arabia.

First of course you must get a visa from the Saudi Arabian embassy in Ottawa.

I have three of them in my passport books, how many do you have Gravol?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Rookie50
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1819
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:00 am
Location: Clear of the Active.

Re: Culture Shock

Post by Rookie50 »

+1. To those inhibited by a overly North American centric view; I suggest a little overseas exposure, by travel if nothing more. (something I've been able to do a bit of) Might open ones eyes a little to other cultures....
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”