Canadians Flying Out of USA

[Colonel Sanders]

http://business.financialpost.com/2012/ ... mpetition/

Something is very wrong when millions of people are driving hundreds of miles just to avoid using a Canadian airline. The Conference Board of Canada reports that five million Canadians every year, rather than fly out of a Canadian airport, make the drive to the nearest U.S. airport instead. The reason? Air travel south of the border costs on average about 5¢ less per available seat mile — a discount of 30%.

But the lion’s share of the premium charged to Canadian air travellers is courtesy of the airlines. Not that Canadian airlines are hugely profitable nowadays, but neither are they terribly efficient. The Conference Board itemizes the differences in wages, productivity and aircraft leasing costs between Canadian and U.S. carriers, but the long and the short of it is competition. The U.S. has lots of it. Canada, not so much.

The purpose of air travel is not to earn profits for airline shareholders or give pilots something to do. It’s to fly people from one point to another as cheaply, comfortably and safely as possible. Outlandish thought, I know.

[Panama Jack]

The purpose of air travel is not to earn profits for airline shareholders or give pilots something to do. It’s to fly people from one point to another as cheaply, comfortably and safely as possible. Outlandish thought, I know

.


I know! That's why I am an avid Walmart shopper in Canada but prefer to spend my money outside of the country. It is not about creating good jobs in the local economy; it is about me getting my goodies as cheaply as I possibly can.

Actually, I thought it was about the taxes. I once heard that the definition of a Canadian is someone who goes shopping south of the border for cheap cigarettes and booze, but rushes back home for cheap health care.

[Meatservo]

Well, it's little wonder when you can buy a ticket to Europe from the USA that stops in Canada on the way for cheaper than it costs to get on the same plane when it stops in Canada on its way.

[Diadem]

http://business.financialpost.com/2012/ ... mpetition/

The purpose of air travel is not to earn profits for airline shareholders or give pilots something to do. It’s to fly people from one point to another as cheaply, comfortably and safely as possible. Outlandish thought, I know.

The purpose of air travel may not be profits, but the purpose of running an airline is profits. Just as in any industry, the owners of the company won't subsidize the business with their personal finances in order to provide cheaper air transport to the public. If there's no profit in it for them, they'll sell their shares. Unless we're going to create some kind of non-profit co-operative with the sole purpose of selling tickets at cost, we can't expect people to start airlines if there's no return-on-investment for them.

[DanWEC]

I have a question for someone better versed on economics and politics than I...
Why does a flag carrier, such as Air Canada, who is suffering (as all carriers are) under bureaucracy, and more importantly, fuel costs, still taxed heavily on fuel?
It has always seemed odd to me that the Gov't branded airline is so heavily burdened under taxes, etc by it's own administrator, when there would be wide reaching benefits from its success. Would that be anti-competitive subsidization?
How does AC's model and govt relationship compare to, say, Emirates?

[linecrew]

I have a question for someone better versed on economics and politics than I...
Why does a flag carrier, such as Air Canada, who is suffering (as all carriers are) under bureaucracy, and more importantly, fuel costs, still taxed heavily on fuel?
It has always seemed odd to me that the Gov't branded airline is so heavily burdened under taxes, etc by it's own administrator, when there would be wide reaching benefits from its success. Would that be anti-competitive subsidization?
How does AC's model and govt relationship compare to, say, Emirates?

In 1989, Air Canada became completely privatized so being Canada's flag carrier doesn't mean that they are a government run airline.

"The term [flag carrier] is also used loosely to refer to any dominant or major airline sized carrier in a country, or in reference to a mainline carrier with a history of a state sponsored legacy of airline service, even long after their privatization."

[Blue_Yonder]

So, you plan a vacation to Key West for 10 days. You go online and find a ticket for $600 that leaves from YOW. Applying the average 30% discount, you find a similar itinerary leaving from Syracuse for $420. Awesome, you’ve just saved $180. Congratulations! You load up the car and begin the trek. Arrived at the border you pay the $5 toll. A few hours later you arrive in Syracuse, but not before putting $50 for a tank of gas in your ride. Turning towards the airport, you find a modest place to park your car, $15 a day.

Returning home from your trip, disappointed by the lack of action you got, you get in your car, pay the $150 it cost to park, and make for the border. Just before crossing though, you figure you're a cheap bastard, and that you might as well fill up in the states since it's cheaper. Another $30 down the hatch. Five minutes later, you pay the $5 toll to get back into Canada. Only another 1.5 hours and $15 in gas until you're back home!

So summarize, to save that $180 you;
Paid $10 in toll fees;
Paid $95 in gas;
Paid $150 in parking fees;
And you drove a combined 7 hours out of your way;

For a total savings of (drum roll please): -$75.

This is assuming one person though, and even if you did end up with a savings, it would be marginal at best. I don't know about you guys, but I value you my time at more than say $100 savings. I'd rather be relaxing with family by the fireplace on the eve of my vacation, then chasing a hundred dollar bill though a cold winters night.

I guess some people just look at the bottom price, and don't see the end value.

[Colonel Sanders]

Your numbers are skewed.

I pay half as much to park at KSYR as I do at CYOW.

Distance is roughly the same.

Airfares for me are often $1000 per person more out
of CYOW than KSYR.

$1000 per person might not be much to you, but it's
worth a drive to KSYR for me.

[linecrew]

Your numbers are skewed.

I pay half as much to park at KSYR as I do at CYOW.

Distance is roughly the same.

Airfares for me are often $1000 per person more out
of CYOW than KSYR.

$1000 per person might not be much to you, but it's
worth a drive to KSYR for me.

+1 about the numbers being skewed.

If you stay a night in a cheap hotel near KSYR to catch an early flight out the next day, most of them will let you leave your car there for free...some will even shuttle you to the terminal! Also factor into your planning to drive down to the border with as little Canadian gas as possible to capitalize on the much cheaper U.S. gas.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Flew from KBUF to KMCO for $300 per person. WJ and AC were $600 per person. Parking was $50 for the week and the travel time was an extra 30mins by car. There were 7 of us on that trip so the savings more than paid for a 5 bedroom private rental house for the week. Not to difficult to justify the decision.

If you look at the breakdown of a ticket from Canada to the US, there is a huge amount going towards "security fees, 911 fees, customs fees," etc....on my last ticket to KPHL I think that amount was around $80....that's something that we don't pay when we drive across the border, so that makes up some of the difference in pricing.

[Blue_Yonder]

Your numbers are skewed.

I pay half as much to park at KSYR as I do at CYOW.

Distance is roughly the same.

Airfares for me are often $1000 per person more out
of CYOW than KSYR.

$1000 per person might not be much to you, but it's
worth a drive to KSYR for me.

I'm curious what sites you're using, and what your end destinations are.

I'd chase a grand.

[KAG]

Maybe one person might not be worth it but a family would.

I find it funny that our federal GOV will squash workers rights and violate the constitution all in the name of "doing what's best for the economy" but taxes the shit out of these same struggling companies/population. Then turns around and blows billions on a show and tell, or in the case of our provincial liberals one cluster f*#k after another. Where's the accountability? Oh yeah were Sheepish Canadians.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Maybe one person might not be worth it but a family would.

I find it funny that our federal GOV will squash workers rights and violate the constitution all in the name of "doing what's best for the economy" but taxes the shit out of these same struggling companies/population. Then turns around and blows billions on a show and tell, or in the case of our provincial liberals one cluster f*#k after another. Where's the accountability? Oh yeah were Sheepish Canadians.

The taxes that I mentioned were collected by the Americans as far as I know

[it'sme]

Why do I drive 2.5 hours to catch a Delta flight to ORD with a family of four? Because to catch an Air Canada flight (my only option where I am) was priced (Tango fare) at $3,467CDN. The same flight 2.5 hour drive away was $1,031CDN. Allowing for gas and parking and I'm saving over $2,300! That pays for the house rental for the week, rental car for the week and putting groceries in the fridge for a week. I'll do that drive every day thank you very much. And to add insult to injury....the total travel time to ORD from my driveway is 80 mins less by making that drive vs having to deal with the transfer at YYZ!

[Nark]

Just curious as to why you'd go through ORD with Delta?

Have a look at United and American's website, since O'Hare is a huge hub for both (UniCAL and AA).
Delta doesn't do much from ORD. Look into DTW and MSP if you want to keep collecting Skymiles, or whatever floats your boat with Delta.

[KK7]

Funny, in past threads we complain that airlines aren't charging enough to pay their employees and pilots appropriately, and that the public has to realize there is a cost to flying. Then we all head to the states and fly down there because it's cheaper.

[Colonel Sanders]

No one here has ever stepped foot inside of a Walmart, either.

[linecrew]

Funny, in past threads we complain that airlines aren't charging enough to pay their employees and pilots appropriately, and that the public has to realize there is a cost to flying. Then we all head to the states and fly down there because it's cheaper.

True enough however the vast majority of the non-aviation savvy flying public are more concerned about getting the best deal for the hard earned and often small amount of disposable income rather than how much an airline pays it's employees and I doubt that will ever change. So if they see that it's substantially cheaper in the states than in Canada just to get to where they are planning to spend said disposable income then odds are that they will do it. Just sayin...

[Colonel Sanders]

getting the best deal

To be fair, it isn't just airlines in Canada with somewhat
interesting pricing.

I have a trip booked (out of a USA airport) with 2 legs
out, 2 legs back. Booked it online, then called up the
airline to see what an upgrade would cost.

For just one of the four legs, the upgrade (for 2 seats)
was $9,000. I might pass on that, even if people here
think I am a Bad Person (tm) for not paying $9k for
an upgrade for just one of four legs of the trip.

I simply cannot imagine what sordid, disgusting and
outright illegal acts the entire crew of (female) flight
attendants would have to continually perform on me
for the entire length of that one flight, to justify a $9k
upgrade.

Has anyone ever seen an X-rated spoof of that
Seinfeld episode? You know, like "Shaving Ryan's
Privates" or "Weapon of @ss Destruction"?

[Nark]

Col,

Have you seen the caliber of FA's here in the US?

Skywest is your best best, to have a full service 9K trip. Or at least something to brag about.
If you fly any mainline, I wouldn't be bragging about the ahh, 'upgrade...'

[Blue_Yonder]

For just one of the four legs, the upgrade (for 2 seats)
was $9,000. I might pass on that, even if people here
think I am a Bad Person (tm) for not paying $9k for
an upgrade for just one of four legs of the trip.

I wouldn't think you’re a bad person.

People nowaday’s walk around with a sense of entitlement. They think they deserve vacations, and have a right to fly. Well no, it's a privilege to fly. If you can't afford the true (being the operative word) costs, take another means of transportation.

Airlines offering $99 value flight from Toronto to Orlando may be a reality, but it doesn't make it anymore economically feasible.

My personal favorite though is when people stand in line and complain they're being 'gouged' to pay $200 for a ticket from YOW to MCO.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Funny, in past threads we complain that airlines aren't charging enough to pay their employees and pilots appropriately, and that the public has to realize there is a cost to flying. Then we all head to the states and fly down there because it's cheaper.

As a pilot flying in Canada, I can't afford to spend an extra $2100 to take my family from yyz-mco

[ilovelamp]

[quote="JohnnyHotRocks"]  Post subject:  Re: Canadians Flying Out of USA  
KK7 wrote:
Funny, in past threads we complain that airlines aren't charging enough to pay their employees and pilots appropriately, and that the public has to realize there is a cost to flying. Then we all head to the states and fly down there because it's cheaper.


As a pilot flying in Canada, I can't afford to spend an extra $2100 to take my family from yyz-mco
[/quote

Should of became a doctor then, they make lots of money from what I hear.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Should of became a doctor then, they make lots of money from what I hear.

Don't want to work that much

[BverLuver]

People nowaday’s walk around with a sense of entitlement.

Blue_Yonder,

Some people, like yourself, are also willing to sell their soul to be a pilot and sell out every one of their future colleagues in doing so. Everyone has different motivations, some are justified, some are not!

Personally, I like a free market system. If I can get a similar product in any type of consumerism for a significantly lower price, especially if the convenience factor is or is nearly nullified, I have no problems going elsewhere to get it.

BL