Hello,

Last night I was doing my walk-around and noticed that 1.5 hrs after sun-down my wings and horizontal stabilizer frosted up. There was no precipitation and conditions outside were SKC about -5 degrees celsius. I have no winter experience and our take-off was scheduled about 20 minutes from then. I tried to take a broom and see if I could unstick the frost and it didn't do anything. Figured that it'd be better to take no chance and decided to play it safe, so I got the wings and horizontal stabilizer de-iced. Was this avoidable? I would say it wasn't because in my book it says that anything other than a clean wing is a contaminated wing. Feel free to comment.

The important question is why are you second guessing yourself? You know you did the right thing .. so why the introspection?

You were completely right. Ice has to be removed from critical surfaces if present. Even on the big guys, the only allowable frost is within a clearly marked area on the wing where the fuel tank is. Any other contamination legally has to be removed before the aircraft can fly

cgzro wrote:The important question is why are you second guessing yourself? You know you did the right thing .. so why the introspection?

Lack of winter experience in a single pilot environment away from home base and resources.

Better to get home a few hours late in the airplane because you decontaminated, then to arrive home in a few days in a box.

Any contamination is to much, as no one is able to predict the point accurately.

You did the right thing....don't let anyone tell you that you can take off with even a bit of frost on the critical surfaces....they are gamblers...and they are gambling with their lives

trey kule wrote:Better to get home a few hours late in the airplane because you decontaminated, then to arrive home in a few days in a box.

Any contamination is to much, as no one is able to predict the point accurately.

You did the right thing....don't let anyone tell you that you can take off with even a bit of frost on the critical surfaces....they are gamblers...and they are gambling with their lives

Thanks Trey and to everyone else. It made me doubt myself and first thing I did this morning with a good cup of coffee is take out and review de-icing type performance.

notpaying wrote:Was this avoidable?

Expect frost with those weather conditions. Check the forecast and bring the gear needed to prevent or remove it. If you have access to a warm hangar, it would be good idea to roll your plane in there well ahead of time. If you just have access to de-ice (example, glycol) then have it warm and ready in advance of your proposed wheels up time. Have wing covers? Bring 'em.
There's a lot of "heroes" out there pushing their luck with frost and ice. Their mindset is to get the job done for the boss and they get a good reference for their next job. Every now and then, the laws of aerodynamics brings one of these heroes down, along with their paying passengers. As hard as it can be sometimes, don't ever take pressure to leave any amount of frost/ice on the critical surfaces.
Good luck with the single pilot gig..it can be a handful at times

ReserveTank wrote:

notpaying wrote:Was this avoidable?

Good luck with the single pilot gig..it can be a handful at times

You can say that again...

It seems sometimes that there is almost a pride issue with needing to get a spray. I heard a pilot say once that if you need to get it then you screwed up. But there are circumstances when it just can't be avoided. If a plane needs to get dispatched ASAP and needs to get pulled out for fuelling and it is snowing outside, you are going to get contamination on the wing. Some guys say just cold soak it in the hanger for a while, but what about all that fuel that has been inside for 12 hours and warmed up to room temp. Or what about the boss coming out and giving a guy heck for spraying "don't you know how much that stuff costs!!" We all have OPS Manuals that say the same thing, Zero Tolerance for contaminated wings, it should be a no brainer.

Cobra64 wrote:I heard a pilot say once that if you need to get it then you screwed up.

Here is a hero
The person saying that, not you Cobra64...

It's exactly the sort of remark that will make some second guessing themselves about deicing it or not.

notpaying, your ultimate deicing tool is your credit card.
To help pay for deice or to scrap the frost away with it, when there is really nothing else available.



Talking about small aircraft here.

What you can do also when you face this situation is before the sun set, throw some snow on the wing and stab. It's easier to broom snow off than to scratch ice with a credit card. It's also cheaper than glycol. But when you got to de-ice, never hesitate to do so.

Hey, good on you. Don't fly contaminated. Ever.
Boss doesn't agree? He doesn't deserve your higher quality, safer standards of work.
Similarly, no job is worth your life, or breaking the law either.

You did the right thing by deicing.

You are NVER incorrect if you de-ice. You CAN be incorrect if you don't de-ice. Terminally incorrect. THINKABOUTIT!