Navajo door latches.

[oldtimer]

Many older Navajos have a sliding latch on the forward portion of the upper cabin entrance door.
Does anyone know why it was installed and is it necessary to slide the latch to the locked position before flight?
I found it was in an awkward spot, it is not normally visible because it hides behind curtains, it is sometimes ommited on passenger briefing cards, it can be a hazard during an emergency evacuation, it can be easily bent and it is not always addressed in the AFM or the usual training manuals.
When I flew the 'Ho with passengers, I usually left the slide aft (unlocked) for the above reasons.
Any comments?

[rapid602]

For years that rear door on Navajo's has been popping open. I flew a Navajo for Bearskin Airlines as an F/O back in the day. On a 20 minute flight the door actually popped open just a little bit to have cold Northern Ontario air in the cabin. It was the coldest I ever was in an airplane. The door did not open up to the point where it was the chain holding the door closed. It did not pop open untill about 10 minutes into a flight from Sioux Lookout to Dryden. There were only the Pilot and myself on the plane and it was still chained.

I went back and looked at it as we wanted to know what we were dealing with, but I did not touch it, probably from fear of making it worse, or even falling out of the plane.... and that thought did cross my mind. I wouldn't suggest that you touch the door or kick it either and make a bad situation worse. I guess ice can build up in the door from sitting with melting snow on it ... warm days and cold nights ... you can have the impression that it is closed and locked and be surprised later.

We always put that chain on, and it was always addressed in the saftey breifing. I suggest that you always always put that chain on especially in the winter. If that door opens up you will propably not get it closed, and the amount of cold air that can come in a cracked (slightly open door) as opposed to one that is open is amazing. Those chains are there for a reason, and if I was to operate a Navajo again and it did not have one, I would do my best to get one installed. If it stops one person from falling out of the plane .... its done its job.

Some of the other more experienced Navajo drivers can chime in here, but that is my experience with that beautiful little chain.

[floatplanepilot]

Door latches are just for decoration, and Tanis heaters are just extra weight in the winter. No need to latch the door or plug in the engines in -20 in a Navajo.

[x-wind]

I remembering hearing it was an AD.

[flyinthebug]

I had a similiar experience to rapid602`s in a PA31-350. We had just taken off from YQR enroute to YPA and through about 1500' the rear door suddenly popped open! We forgot the latch. We had 5 passengers in the back and one was a very high ranking Chief from the AFN. The co-pilot asked me if he should try to close it and I said NO WAY(I didnt want him being pulled out)...we briefed the passengers and returned to land in YQR. It was actually a non event and after we landed we secured the lock & LATCH and went back on our way. Other then it scared the shit outta our passengers (and me for about 5 secs until I knew what caused that tremendous "boom" sound), there was no harm done. Just be sure to double check that latch and make sure its locked down. If you dont, you`ll likely have an experience like rapid or I did. The latch is there for a reason, to keep the door secure. Use it.

Fly safe all.

[xsbank]

You MUST remember that accident years ago when a cheque-hauling Navaho went missing in BC, was finally found in the bush somewhere but no pilot was in the wreck? They found him 100s of miles from the wreck. They figured the door gave its warning, he got out of his seat and went back to latch it and it popped open, taking him too while the 'Ho noodled along without him til the fuel ran out.

There's another one on a Beech 99 when the captain went back to latch the door, it popped taking him with it but he clung to the lower door while his copilot found a place to land. He had a hypothermia issue and probably PTSD as well. I think his foot dragged on the runway? The copilot thought he was gone and somewhat surprised to find him a cling-on!

Close the door then leave your belts on. It used to be part of my briefing for passengers. The door has an AD I believe.

[Meatservo]

If I was hanging onto the back of a plane and couldn't get back to the cockpit, I think I'd stand a better chance letting go and hoping for the best, than I would by trying to hold on during one of my co-pilots' attempts to land.

[GA MX Trainer Dude]

Oldtimer

As far as I know the sliding bolt is still a requirement.

What Door Lock System you have on your aircraft depends on the S/L status of your aircraft.

Latest S/L that I know of is 803A which references S/L 739 done previously.


FAA AD Reference is 78-05-05

Guts of it here:

78-05-05 PIPER AIRCRAFT CORPORATION: Amendment 39-3148. Applies to PA-31 and PA-31-325 and PA-31-300 aircraft, S/N 31-2 through 31-7512029, and PA-31-350 aircraft, S/N 31-5001 through 31-7552052 certificated in all categories, except airplanes modified to incorporate all three kits denoted in Piper Aircraft Corporation Service Letter 739, dated June 2, 1975.

Compliance required within the next 50 hours in service after the effective date of this AD, unless already accomplished.

To assure proper latching and thereby prevent inadvertent opening of the cabin door in flight, accomplish the modification excepting the compliance time paragraph described in Piper Aircraft Corporation Service Letter No. 803A, dated November 3, 1977, or an equivalent method approved by the Chief, Engineering and Manufacturing Branch, FAA Eastern Region.

Upon request, with substantiating data, submitted through an FAA maintenance inspector, the compliance time specified in this AD may be increased by the Chief, Engineering and Manufacturing Branch, FAA Eastern Region.

This amendment is effective March 8, 1978.




803A is a new modified door lock assembly with improved placard for "Safe" indication. Replaces door latch assembly referenced in S/L 739

739 is a 3 part S/L

1 - Installation of Cabin Ajar Switch

2 - Modified cabin door latch installation

3 - Installation of a sliding bolt type latch assembly for double locking security.


Here is the guts of the 803 S/L Dated Nov 3, 1977

(Supersedes Service Letter No. 803 dated February 17, 1977.)
Subject: Cabin Door Latch System Refinement
Reason for Revision:
Models Affected:
New Door Latch Plate Assembly (replacing unit
announced in Service Letter No. 803).
Serial Numbers Affected:
PA-31, PA-31-300 and
PA-31-325 Navajo ..........................31-2 to 31-7512029 incl.,
PA-31-350 Navajo Chieftain................31-5001 to 31-7552052 incl.
Compliance Time: At owner/operator's discretion; recommended at a regularly scheduled
maintenance/inspection interval. Note: Affected aircraft having previously complied
with Service Letter No. 803 dated February 17, 1977 are eligible for compliance with
this revised issue.
Purpose: Piper Service Letter No. 803 dated February 17, 1977 announced availability of
new cabin door latch assembly, designed as a product refinement item, incorporating a
visual indicator "flag" - on which the word "SAFE" becomes visible when the (door) latch
is secured. This feature provides additional security to guard against the cabin door
unlocking in flight.
It has been found that the adhesive substance (attaches the "SAFE" flag to its mating
surface) may deteriorate, allowing the placard to detach. This service release announces
availability of new redesigned Door Latch Plate Assembly containing a riveted "SAFE"
indicator flag (placard).
Instructions: (1.) Affected aircraft covered by this service release that have not previously
complied with Service Letter No. 803, refer to attached sketch instruction data for Door
Latch Plate Assembly, Piper part number 55633-03 installation information.

(2.) Affected aircraft covered by this service release that have previously complied with
Service Letter No. 803, simply replace existing cabin door latch plate assembly with new
assembly (refer to Material Required, below), using existing hardware.

(3.) Make appropriate Log Book entry re service letter compliance.


Hope this helps - you might have to check the status with maintenance - I don't remember if there is an amendment to the POH for it. - Been away from the aircraft for a while now.

Regards,

GA MX Trainer - ex westexer

[Zapp Brannigan]

If these stories are true, I'm amazed! Wow to live through hanging onto a door, just like in the movies.

You MUST remember that accident years ago when a cheque-hauling Navaho went missing in BC, was finally found in the bush somewhere but no pilot was in the wreck? They found him 100s of miles from the wreck. They figured the door gave its warning, he got out of his seat and went back to latch it and it popped open, taking him too while the 'Ho noodled along without him til the fuel ran out.

There's another one on a two-crew when the captain went back to latch the door, it popped taking him with it but he clung to the lower door while his copilot found a place to land. He had a hypothermia issue and probably PTSD as well. I think his foot dragged on the runway? The copilot thought he was gone and somewhat surprised to find him a cling-on!

Close the door then leave your belts on. It used to be part of my briefing for passengers. The door has an AD I believe.

[Northern Flyer]

If I was hanging onto the back of a plane and couldn't get back to the cockpit, I think I'd stand a better chance letting go and hoping for the best, than I would by trying to hold on during one of my co-pilots' attempts to land.

Haha, that says a lot for their mentor.

[AllClutch]

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 17,1165161

Newspaper about the 99

[oldtimer]

Yes, I have heard and read many horror stories of doors coming open in flight with sometimes tragic results and keeping the top portion of a Navajo door closed is a good way of keeping passengers from falling out. I was wondering what others do about the latch. I found that taking the time to train new hires on the door and never let passengers close the door prevented all incidents in the airplanes I flew.

[rapid602]

I seem to remember flying a Cessna 401 registration C-GCMM and I think I remember that aircraft having the same type of door system as the Navajo (split door) and I think it had a chain as well.

Its hard to remember because when I think of the aircraft all I seem to remember is the ugly green seats and really ugly green carpet. But I think it had the chains as well. When we had the door pop on the Navajo as mentioned above it did not pop (did not open all the way ) until about 10 minutes into the trip and there were no passengers on board.

I seem to remember reading back in the late 80's or early 90's about a pilot I think it was on a twin otter who went back to sweep the floor. It could have been a Navajo and I think he bumped the door with his backside and fell out. I think they may have found him on Great Slave Lake or some big lake up that way. Maybe someone from the area can remember that one. Moral of the story though is put the chain on the door.

Fly Safe and Merry Christmas to all.

[traveller123]

I actually fly the ho' and one time the top portion of the door opened, we were at 15 000 feet, had to land at the only airport in the area where the weather was at the mins.

Now, I attach the latch with a stripe (and two hooks) to the last seat. Nobody touch the door except me or the copilot.

[WayDownTown]

Regarding the comment of the latch not being depicted on the safety briefing card, how about just printing new safety cards with the depiction of the latch. Its really not that hard to print the correct saftey card.

[lost in the north]

Brieffing cards need to be approved by Transport if any changes are done