Rouge

[Plim Sole]

Air Canada Rouge... Doing the same, only cheaper! In theory

[Kosiw]

And will Rouge be the colour of the bottom line in their future as well

[jjj]

The rouge livery on the AC website looks great.
No awful baby blue paint.

JJJ

[Cam]

Will travel benefits be extended to Rouge?

[gustind]

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/rouge.html

[flatface]

Deleted

[indieadventurer]

I'm wondering what will make this operation "low cost" because isn't the only difference the pay for flight crew and attendants? (and if so is it really that much of a difference?) Fuel, landing fees, maintenance etc.... will all be the same, no? Just wondering what edge Rouge has to fly these routes cheaper than mainline is currently doing them.

[YYZSaabGuy]

I'm wondering what will make this operation "low cost" because isn't the only difference the pay for flight crew and attendants? (and if so is it really that much of a difference?) Fuel, landing fees, maintenance etc.... will all be the same, no? Just wondering what edge Rouge has to fly these routes cheaper than mainline is currently doing them.

I think the logic is that Rouge will be profitable due to use of a higher-density seating configuration on the aircraft, as well as lower flight crew wages (as you noted above) and more flexible work rules than those governing existing mainline employees. Fare unbundling will also likely play a role. However: I'm guessing the strategic rationale is more important, i.e. to prevent further penetration of AC's customer abse by other low-cost carriers, i.e. Sunwing Vacations, Air Transat, and WestJet.

[FICU]

Low Cost is just an illusion in this case because whatever money is saved by lowering flight crew and support staff wages will be eaten up in executive compensation and bonuses while the poor pax will be suffering with their knees jammed into the seat back in front of them while they pay for crappy food.

Rouge = red = the colour of embarrassment = what senior management at AC should be in launching this next to fail effort.

[fingersmac]

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Rouge was spun off in the future just like Jazz was. Calin & friends will make it look attractive enough for an IPO, cash in and move on. If not, it will go the way of Zip and Tango.

[learcapt]

Kosiw, how is that any different than how the airline has been operated for years anyhow?

[delta1]

Geez people....why so much negativity??

[ikarus]

Positive: Paint job maybe? It's actually cool.

Aaaaaaand that's about it.

[Rockie]

Geez people....why so much negativity??

History and an eerily consistent track record.

[CanadianEh]

Geez people....why so much negativity??

History and an eerily consistent track record.

+1. All the money that they are going to piss away on this imminent failure could have been used to satisfy the demands of employees... the people who ACTUALLY create the value instead of these hair brain ideas that fail time after time.

[TheStig]

Geez people....why so much negativity??

History and an eerily consistent track record.

+1. All the money that they are going to piss away on this imminent failure could have been used to satisfy the demands of employees... the people who ACTUALLY create the value instead of these hair brain ideas that fail time after time.

How do you figure Rouge will fail? From what I can tell it's already been successful, the unions are fractured and having separate labour groups will only weaken the unions negotiating power moving forward. Think about how difficult it will be for mainline employees to achieve any gains while there are LCC employees making so much less with such inferior work rules.

Aside from that, Rouge does not carry the same the risk that Zip or Tango did, 95% of the flying it will do are already established mainline routes, but with the margins increased thanks to lower labour costs. This unit is simply about reducing seat mile costs to be competitive. Calin what happened to 'culture change'?

[cj555]

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Rouge was spun off in the future just like Jazz was. Calin & friends will make it look attractive enough for an IPO, cash in and move on. If not, it will go the way of Zip and Tango.

Isn't the entire Rouge operation being run on contract by Sky Regional?

[excv580mech]

I seriously expected more......Athens, Edinbourgh and Venice?????? Thats what I got from thier website. I expected way more than that. Transat and other gonna survive and thrive if thats all for this year on the Atlantic routes.

And the fuel surcharges, OMG.

I have spoken to a few people (including my neighbour), somehow they are under the impression that they will get mainline type seats and service, oh what a nasty surprize they are in for, its gonna be no different than flying Transat or others.

Winter gonna be a different story, already huge excess capacity in the market, going to be tough to make any money there.

Should go the way of Tango and Zip within a few years. Even with pilots and flight attendants making substantially less, the baggage handlers, maintenance, grooming, checkin, management etc etc still gets paid the same as mainline, and has all the same inefficiancies and wastage built in.

Now, if I see Swissport (or similar) suddenly doing the ground handling, grooming, contract checkin, and Wright International (or similar) doing the maintenance etc, then I know that they might be in it for the long haul. Till the, IMO, not gonna last for more than two or three years.

[TheStig]

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Rouge was spun off in the future just like Jazz was. Calin & friends will make it look attractive enough for an IPO, cash in and move on. If not, it will go the way of Zip and Tango.

Isn't the entire Rouge operation being run on contract by Sky Regional?

Rouge will be operated my mainline Air Canada pilots represented by ACPA.

[yycflyguy]

I seriously expected more......Athens, Edinbourgh and Venice?????? Thats what I got from thier website. I expected way more than that. Transat and other gonna survive and thrive if thats all for this year on the Atlantic routes.

There will only be 2 B767s for summer 2013. How many destinations did you expect to have service with 2 aircraft?

its gonna be no different than flying Transat or others.

Yup. That's the point.

[mbav8r]

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Rouge was spun off in the future just like Jazz was. Calin & friends will make it look attractive enough for an IPO, cash in and move on. If not, it will go the way of Zip and Tango.

Isn't the entire Rouge operation being run on contract by Sky Regional?

Rouge will be operated my mainline Air Canada pilots represented by ACPA.

That's not entirely true Stig, in a spin off situation you would be considered rouge pilots and given a choice, like the choice given to the AVEOS employees. It's a separate company and at least for now they are ACPA pilots, but they are not mainline pilots

[LTD]

Geez people....why so much negativity??

+1
Man I've never seen so much hating..! I wonder if those with negative thoughts work for AC.
If so, damn.
Must suck to come into work every day when you hate your company so much.
I fly for a 703-704 operator and am very happy flying to airports in the middle of nowhere with my little turbo prop, no auto pilot, loading pax bags myself, and deicing my own plane. Would feel privileged to fly for AC. Although I do agree many challenges and conflict exits with management and employees, I still think Rouge will help AC be more competitive with all other low cost operators like transat and sunwing. At least I hope it will.
I truly believe only time will tell. Anything else is speculation.
I wish AC and its employees much success.
My two cents..
Cheers

[bravowhiskey]

There are positives about Rouge...
Its a good place to go if your a junior ACPA member
- ACPA Pilots
- Socialized Bidding
- Overtime opportunities
- Productive flying
- Nice equipment (with cool paintjob )
I can't see how Rouge will fail since they are taking over certain mainline routes with a cheaper operating cost with more seats
I know many Mainline pilots bidding there for their first command.

[CanadianEh]

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Business/ID/2318281397/

Check out 5:45 in, they talk about Rouge.

[yycflyguy]

There are positives about Rouge...
Its a good place to go if your a junior ACPA member
- ACPA Pilots
- Socialized Bidding
- Overtime opportunities
- Productive flying
- Nice equipment (with cool paintjob )
I can't see how Rouge will fail since they are taking over certain mainline routes with a cheaper operating cost with more seats
I know many Mainline pilots bidding there for their first command.

-ACPA pilots for now...
-Socialized bidding has not been described in the FOS. Nobody knows how it will be implemented.
-There are AVO opportunities at mainline now in the FOS.
-Productive to the point of being onerous. CARs limits with serious fatigue issues.
-The B767s are 30+ years old and they are going to pack in 275 pax. There will be no rest facility, no bunk and I believe no RP.
-The A319s are 25+ years old.
-First command will mean they are back on probation, in charge of planes with multiple MELs and pressure to get the mission done. For many, if they bid command, especially the B767, it will be a pay cut as they will be in year one Captain scale = $118/hr.

... and those are your positives.